Discussion: 57 & 60 Month Veteran Rewards!
By
AARGH_NA,
Posted on: 2009-01-21 17:33 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I think the benefits for the City Traveler badge are great, but ultimately, the elimination of travel pool tier 1 prereqs is an idea so good that it should be made universal. Give it to everyone. Not because some of us deserve it or don't or because some of us earned it or didn't, but because it's just a nice change to the game.
It seems like CoH was originally designed (IMHO) to slow down your leveling progress as much as possible, presumably so you'd have to pay for an extra month or 2 before you reached the level cap. That's why you had to walk everywhere for 14 levels, why the original contacts were so reluctant to give you their cell phone numbers, why so few zones had stations for both the green *and* yellow lines (haven't the folks in the Paragon City Transportation Dept ever heard of a transfer point?), why Founders Falls didn't even have a train station. That's why there were no map icons for the stores. Jeez, remember the old Paragon Dance Party? The original entrance in Steel Canyon (also not shown on the map) was very close to the yellow line, which allowed players to use the PDP as a shortcut to Talos. When the devs realized we were using it as a shortcut, THEY MOVED THE ENTRANCE! God forbid, we'd shave off a few minutes of our commuting time.
That's no longer the CoH design philosophy. The devs now know that many of us are here not because we're still struggling to hit the level cap, but because we love the game and want to keep playing it over and over, and that making it less of a drag is the best way to keep us playing. Now they give us temp travel powers, base teleporters, Ourobouros, new train stations in Founders and Skyway, and contacts who hand out their phone numbers like candy. They give us patrol xp, double xp weekends, and a smoother leveling curve. And it's great! We aren't all hitting 50 that much faster and leaving the game in droves. We're hitting 50 faster but staying anyway because it's more fun.
Anyway, it's a great reward, and I'm looking forward to getting it; but I think it'd be great if we just made it a change to travel pools instead of a vet reward. It seems consistent with the current "less hassle" philosophy and doesn't break the game.
Of course, this means they'd need to come up with another cool 5-year vet reward, but I can live with that...
Quick Reply:
For those who think this is huge and absolutely ruins the game for them, build a bridge. This is a reward for paying/playing this game for 60 months. 5 years worth of subscription fees, nerfs, DOOM claims, listening to people whine about this and that, listening to people whine about vet rewards etc etc. The 60 month vet reward does not break the game, nor does it change the game so drastically.
It opens up 1 to 2 powers/slots at best. That's hardly even remotely enough to destroy the balance of the game. Let's look at the fact that most reasonable people skip ridiculous powers in their primary/secondary sets anyway. After playing for 5 years, you most assuredly know which powers to skip in your powersets. That being said, your build might already be planned out and the only change is when you get the travel power. How many of the powers left (in the end) are you even spastically waiting to take? Not many. Oh noez! I can take another pool power, which automatically makes me better than everyone else! 
The real issue I see with this, that nobody seems to have caught....
Mixing and matching powers between the travel sets is very nice. It's almost...dare I say, incarnate like? Why on earth would such a neat ability like this be wasted in such a way? Is this to say there won't be an Incarnate EAT? I know they were never confirmed, but they have been hinted towards. This ability should have been saved for something like that I would think.
We'll see....
sunblaster, speaking from a pvp perspective, the ability to have one or 2 extra powers/slots because of this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE change. think about it. while most of you cry when pvprs speak, its still a part of the game. this award could potentially become very game altering for that portion of the game. i can think of a hundred or more situaions, where in pvp, having one extra power would make you an unbeatable god against your opponent. something they tried to cure w i12 if you recall. bad move.
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Quick Reply:
For those who think this is huge and absolutely ruins the game for them, build a bridge. This is a reward for paying/playing this game for 60 months. 5 years worth of subscription fees, nerfs, DOOM claims, listening to people whine about this and that, listening to people whine about vet rewards etc etc. The 60 month vet reward does not break the game, nor does it change the game so drastically.
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Well put.
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Workout Warrior Badge: Hit the ground running... this badge unlocks access to the Fitness Power Pool at level 6, so players can access Tier 1, 2, or 3 powers early on.
Puhweeeeeeeese?
Pwetty pweese with a chewwy on top? 
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I think any request expressed as baby talk should be automatically rejected out of hand. 
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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sunblaster, speaking from a pvp perspective, the ability to have one or 2 extra powers/slots because of this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE change. think about it. while most of you cry when pvprs speak, its still a part of the game. this award could potentially become very game altering for that portion of the game. i can think of a hundred or more situaions, where in pvp, having one extra power would make you an unbeatable god against your opponent. something they tried to cure w i12 if you recall. bad move.
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Very good point. They only way to fix this would be to grey out your 25th power in pvp? But yes, it needs to be addressed.
Just a question: We get Vet respecs at 9, 21, 33, and 45. Why aren't we getting one at 57, unless its an oversight? Just curious.
57 Month: Abiding badge, 50% Discount, I like it. Not sure how it'll help me at the moment with all the costume tokens/Vet tokens I have, but it'll be nice when the situation arises that it can apply towards.
60 Month: City Traveler Badge, very nice, especially for the alts I'll continue creating and for /respec'ing characters that I have built to exemplar down for lower level content.
Additional Character Slot: Very nice! Allows me to hold off buying another slot for a little longer.
5 Merit Rewards: Free? Sure! Thank you!
Can't wait for June 18th on my main account! Still have to wait 25 months for the 2nd account though...
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sunblaster, speaking from a pvp perspective, the ability to have one or 2 extra powers/slots because of this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE change. think about it. while most of you cry when pvprs speak, its still a part of the game. this award could potentially become very game altering for that portion of the game. i can think of a hundred or more situaions, where in pvp, having one extra power would make you an unbeatable god against your opponent. something they tried to cure w i12 if you recall. bad move.
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Very good point. They only way to fix this would be to grey out your 25th power in pvp? But yes, it needs to be addressed.
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I don't PvP, but I wanted to address the greying out the 25th power comment: Kheldians already (potentially) have more than 25 powers, so if that's the ONLY fix, it ain't happening.
Cool.
I'll probably only ever drop Recall Friend though. Since I take Teleport a lot, that will be nice. (I may find I miss it....we'll see.) I would very unlikely to ever drop Hover or Combat Jumping.
I wonder....I'll have to read through the thread I guess....does this apply one time only? Like...will I be able to pick tier 2 travel powers at lvl 6 AND 8? Like say, Teleport and Super Jump back-to-back?
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sunblaster, speaking from a pvp perspective, the ability to have one or 2 extra powers/slots because of this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE change. think about it. while most of you cry when pvprs speak, its still a part of the game. this award could potentially become very game altering for that portion of the game. i can think of a hundred or more situaions, where in pvp, having one extra power would make you an unbeatable god against your opponent. something they tried to cure w i12 if you recall. bad move.
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I call BS. One power will not make you an 'unbeatable god'. That's totally ridiculous. The extra power that can/will be taken due to this will almost always end up being something with very little value. 5 year vets have been playing this game a long time and by this point will be well aware of which powers to take, and which to avoid. Add to that a PvP vet and you will find that not only are they well versed in their powers, they've also worked out builds for the most part and have ALREADY taken everything they're going to need as per their build.
Anything extra is going to be extra period. So they can take Vengeance with Phase now. Who cares? That does not an unbalanced game this make. Just to clarify this again, most PvP'ers/vets already have their builds setup with everything they need. Adding one power does not overpower them. Nor does it unbalance the game. The powers left over once you've factored in the necessities for your build are HARDLY that valuable. This concern/whine is misplaced.
We'll see....
<QR>
I just recently got my 27 month vet reward, so it's gonna be awhile before I see the City Traveller badge on any of my characters.
That being said I think this is a great vet reward. Yes, it will give 5 year vets a little bit of an advantage that I don't have: one extra power pick for their characters. So? Anyone who gets this badge has paid the money to keep their subscription active for 5 solid years. I think that anyone who's paid that much and stayed with this game that long deserves a few perks. They've earned the ability to have a little bit more versatility with their characters than I do.
Good job devs! Good job making a handy vet reward that does give those long time vets a bit of a step up that also isn't game breaking in any way.
IMHO 
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....but who's really going to do that? What happens when you "skip" these pre-req powers? Lets take a look shall we?
The Speed power pool requires that you "take" Hasten before SS. Last I checked, Hasten was still a very necessary and helpful power for any pvp build. So no advantage there with this vet reward. Even Flurry has become a pretty amazing power there lol (<---not sure for how long...but yea lol).
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What if you don't PvP? Hasten is useful, yes. In PvE, at least, it being necessary went away with ED. What if you don't want it because of the orange/yellow glow it sticks on your hands? What if you just don't see the need - i.e. a melee who already has a complete attack chain, and something non-clicky like wp or sr for a defense set?
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The Leaping Pool requires that you take Combat Jumping before SJ. Again, no huge advantage there, as MANY people still opt to take CJ for both the combat manueverability and the ability to cheaply slot a couple uniques into it with no fuss.
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Many do make some use out of CJ. But is it really *more* useful than whatever you could put in its place? Super jump is the only travel power that fits her concept, but my controller has absolutely no use whatsoever for CJ - I already have enough maneuverability with stamina prereqs, and she doesn't have the money to buy uniques to stick in it. I would kill for the ability to drop that power and take something more useful. Being able to find some use for the prereq you are forced to take doesn't mean that there isn't something better you could replace it with, given the option.
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The Teleport Pool requires that you take TP-Foe before accessing TP. Again, no "huge" help there either. Many people who are going the TP route find TP-Foe a VERY useful tool for them and couldn't imagine dropping it. In zones, barring cheap droners, it can be quite a handy and amazing tool. Furthermore, TP-Friend is both a substantial help in and out of pvp no matter what your preference. So no help there from this vet reward. I will state however, that the Teleport travel pool will probably benifit the "most" from this reward, but not hugely, especially not in pvp. We all remember just how "useful" TP is in pvp now with the new suppression...right?
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Again, what if you don't PvP? In PvE, tp foe is more or less a toy - you can use it, but it doesn't really give you any significant advantage most of the time. Recall friend, again, is undoubtedly useful - but is it more useful than what you could get in its place? My grav/storm is absolutely jam packed on his power choices - I have to overflow a power from my primary/secondary into the 40s to make it all fit (and that means I can't take the epics I want). Again, his concept basically demands TP. Would I drop recall friend? In a heartbeat. If I didn't simply use that to get all the primary/secondary powers I want before the 40s, I'd replace it with hover. Ever try using TP on a laggy computer? Falling out of the air is depressingly common. Hover is a wonderful tool to stop that, but *normally* it's an unjustifiably expensive choice in terms of power slots. Getting hover+TP in two power picks is a huge advantage.
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The Flight Pool requires that you take Hover before taking Fly. Once again, no problem here, even in pvp as Hover proves some decent mitigation from -fly powers. If you happen to be a flyboy(there aren't many) in pvp, Hover is a staple platform and must have power for you. Heck, even AirSup is a decent power to many, both for it's decent damage and -fly component. So no help from the vet rewards there either.
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And, yet one more time, what if you don't PvP? Air sup is good, yes. Hover is useful, yes. They're not universally so, though. I have a controller who must be on the ground to use some powers, so I don't need hover even though I have it. But I don't particularly care to engage in melee either on that character, so I don't need air sup. So, would I drop hover? You bet. What about a weapon meleer, who wants to avoid redraw but doesn't want to deal with hover's slow speed and extra end cost in combat? What use do they have for the fly prereqs?
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Soooooo.....uhm....I'm realy not seeing this huge "advantage" that some people are claiming that 60 month vet players will have in pvp.....odd. Why am I not seeing it? Because it's not there...that's why. There really is very very little advantage in pvp with this reward.
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And, again, not everyone PvPs. I'm not sure where this is coming from. I, at least, was referring to the advantage of flexibility it'll give them in power choice, whatever game mode we're looking at. I plan out builds as a sort of idle hobby, when I'm not actually in a position to play. I've seen, again and again and again and again, builds where I just can't make everything fit. So many times, I'm sitting there staring at a junk prereq, unslotted and totally useless to the character, wishing I could drop it. What overriding need does my teleporting ninja scrapper have for recall friend? What use does my blapper have for CJ when he already has the stamina prereqs? It's the flexibility not to be limited by such things that I'm seeing here.
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Now, if it was a "free" power gift, and slottable, sure, I'd see the advantage in it, however, this is not the case. In fact, I really don't see it being all that helpful or useful in pve either, at least not for Speed or Leaping Pool users, and even Fly users to a lesser extent. The pre-req's for these pools are very very helpful to any toon, be them low level or not, so skipping them early on really doesn't do much, I'd rather have them earlier than my travel powers in some cases....
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If you actually have a use for the prereqs, then no, it's not really a free power. However, saying that the prereqs are so useful that all characters would want to take them anyway seems rather... unsupported. And, again, even if they're useful, who's to say that they would be *more* useful than something you could put in their place. It *is* "a 'free' power gift, and slottable" in at least a significant percentage of situations. And that's what I'm crying foul on.
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You need a quick heads up bud, I was responding to people who were trying to cry "doom" on the "PVP" aspect of this reward, [u]not[u] the "pve" aspect. So yea, everything I'm mentioning in that thread has to do with the fact that there is very very little "pvp" advantage through that vet reward. Heck, you get more pvp advantage out of the BlackWand and NemStaff for sure. In the pve aspect, it's a tiny bit more helpful/fun, but still not overpowering or game-shatteringly unbalancing. It will simply be "neat" at lvl 6 to have a "real" travel power. That's about it at this point..
Read more before you respond please.
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3. If players were aloud to buy the rewards, I don't think they should be able to pick and choose. They would be aloud to buy them in order from whatever reward they are currently on. So if you have 9 months of Vet rewards and want the 24th month vet reward, you'd have to buy 12, 15, 18, 21, and then 24. That's $25 that just went to the game and that helps now, not in 2 years when this player will supposedly still be playing just so they can get this reward. Just don't include the Badge with the rewards, this way you can still see how long people have actually been playing.
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I'd be game for that .. it would appease a few of the Have-me-Nots, and provide extra income to the Dev team, which = more stuff for everyone.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
So, let's think about this semi-tactically, (which means thinking in terms of impact over an entire build within which the coolness of having lowbie travel powers has little value except for rare ouro situations).
Early Fly only improves a build if Hover is weak for the build and Air Superiority is pointless.
Early Superspeed only improves a build if Hasten is unneeded. (Remarkably, there are indeed some builds where Hasten is unneeded.) As an aside, Flurry is always weak for every build.
Early Teleport only improves a build if Recall Friend is undesirable and Teleport Foe is weak and/or undesirable.
Early Superleap only improves a build if Combat Jumping is weak, which is pretty unlikely since CJ is often quite valuable.
One question that I haven't seen answered yet is whether lowering the prereqs on the tier 3 powers of these travel pools also means the prereqs on their tier 4 powers will also be lowered.
Acrobatics is the preeminent power to consider of the tier 4s. Is level 20 still a prereq? Does it still require 2 selections from the first 3 tiers as a prereq?
I'm not so concerned about the level 20 prereq. But as for the 2 of 3 tiers prereq, if Acrobatics can be selected with only Superleap as a prereq, then many vet builds may switch Combat Jumping for Acrobatics. Or switch Hover for Group Fly. Or switch Recall Friend for Group Teleport. Or switch Flurry with Whirlwind, hehe.
Actually, I suppose the most common impact will be for players to trend towards having both Superspeed and Superleap in their builds, skipping Combat Jumping usually, (but usually not skipping Hasten).
If I were to digress towards a tangent, I might suggest the Invisibility pool should also be considered a travel pool, in that it aids uneventful progression from point A to point B. Stealth applies a travel speed adjustment. And It would be just as much the same value to the player to choose Invisibility over Stealth early as it is to choose Fly over Hover early.
Dang...only 4 years 5 months to go! AUUUGH! MOMMY!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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The 57 & 60 Month Veteran Rewards are designed to help our Vets hit the ground running and in high style without breaking the bank! With players having so many opportunities to create new character concepts we feel these rewards will help our long standing fans suit up in style.
[u]57 Months[u]
Abiding Badge: 50% discount on all tailor sessions: Start out your new characters in style!
[u]60 Months [u]
City Traveler Badge: Hit the ground running
this badge unlocks access to the following Power Pools at level 6, so players can access Tier 1, 2, or 3 powers early on.
<ul type="square">[*] Flight
[*] Superspeed
[*] Teleport
[*] Superleap [/list]
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60 month has to be the coolest Vet reward yet!!!
57 well not so good. I'm just over 2 years so a long way to 57 months. I have more costume change tolkens than I'll ever need. 50% off free does not amount to much.
I can foresee this having a nice buffing effect on support-oriented toons too.
Imagine being able to take Team TP without having to take TP Other, TP Foe, or Teleport. How many powers does that free up?
I can see Matt tearing his hair out over this one though.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I only have one thing to say:
I LOVE YOU DEVS!!!! I LOVE YOU SOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUCH!!!!!!!
Am I the only one seeing the 5 free Merit rewards as big?
Maybe I am reading differently but, they are not saying 5 reward merits, its 5 merit rewards
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
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sunblaster, speaking from a pvp perspective, the ability to have one or 2 extra powers/slots because of this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE change. think about it. while most of you cry when pvprs speak, its still a part of the game. this award could potentially become very game altering for that portion of the game. i can think of a hundred or more situaions, where in pvp, having one extra power would make you an unbeatable god against your opponent. something they tried to cure w i12 if you recall. bad move.
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I call BS. One power will not make you an 'unbeatable god'. That's totally ridiculous. The extra power that can/will be taken due to this will almost always end up being something with very little value. 5 year vets have been playing this game a long time and by this point will be well aware of which powers to take, and which to avoid. Add to that a PvP vet and you will find that not only are they well versed in their powers, they've also worked out builds for the most part and have ALREADY taken everything they're going to need as per their build.
Anything extra is going to be extra period. So they can take Vengeance with Phase now. Who cares? That does not an unbalanced game this make. Just to clarify this again, most PvP'ers/vets already have their builds setup with everything they need. Adding one power does not overpower them. Nor does it unbalance the game. The powers left over once you've factored in the necessities for your build are HARDLY that valuable. This concern/whine is misplaced.
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considering im a vet pvpr as you say, i call BS on you calling BS. one power can deff be match altering in so many cases. dont get me wrong i think its a great reward, but for pvp it WILL provide means that im sure are unintended. most GOOD pvp builds are already so tight in content that sacrifices are made time and time again. hell even a few slots can prove to be altering. thats my only worry. for my toons i know getting this in april will be a huge boost. as for it being misplaced, that is your opinion. and you are entitled to it. even if it is self biased.
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One immediate advantage I can see is you can take Teleport and Hover together for the same amount of powers as Hover/Fly used to take.
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Great idea! I'm going to do this!
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3. If players were aloud to buy the rewards, I don't think they should be able to pick and choose. They would be aloud to buy them in order from whatever reward they are currently on. So if you have 9 months of Vet rewards and want the 24th month vet reward, you'd have to buy 12, 15, 18, 21, and then 24. That's $25 that just went to the game and that helps now, not in 2 years when this player will supposedly still be playing just so they can get this reward. Just don't include the Badge with the rewards, this way you can still see how long people have actually been playing.
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I'd be game for that .. it would appease a few of the Have-me-Nots, and provide extra income to the Dev team, which = more stuff for everyone.
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Hey your right, while were at it, why not be able to purchase badges, and alcolades, heck why not even levels?
I know I'd pay money to get to 50 higher, I mean all those power leveling companies are taking revanue which COH could use. Lets just eliminate the middle man and take that revenue.
/sarcasm
vet rewards are just like any award, you should earn it to have any value.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
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I get the feeling a lot more characters will be getting Teleport with the 60 month reward in place >_>
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I dunno. I usually take some other travel power and then only take Recall Friend from teleportation. I find it more useful than teleport. But for Tanks and anyone using teleport in combat, this will be fantastic.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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I get the feeling a lot more characters will be getting Teleport with the 60 month reward in place >_>
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I dunno. I usually take some other travel power and then only take Recall Friend from teleportation. I find it more useful than teleport. But for Tanks and anyone using teleport in combat, this will be fantastic.
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This is purely theoretical since I won't have the option until ~2011, but I wonder if Fly and Teleport would be a good pairing? I know I liked combining the Jingle Jet with Teleport during the holiday months...
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
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I think they should just allow people to buy Vet rewards early. That way you can wait get em for free, or if your one of the noobs screaming DOOOOM!! you can just open up your wallet and pay $5 per reward.
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Now wait a sec. I paid 720 dollars to get the 60 month reward after "waiting" for 5 years, and a newbie gets them all for $100. Granted I understand that would be upfront and I could see a discount being applied for shelling it out in a lump sum, but that is one hell of a disparity.
--Rad
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Look, I personally don't care. I have 36 month Vet rewards and I'm good with that. I wouldn't buy them if they were available. With that said I have three things to point out.
1. You did NOT pay $720 for your Vet rewards. You paid that money to play the game for 5 years and your Vet rewards are a FREE bonus thrown in to show appreciation. If other people could buy them it doesn't affect you in the least. In the immortal words of James Brown "I gots mine, so don't worry bout his" Letting players purchase Vet rewards for $5 each would not reduce the value of your Vet rewards, yours are still free to you. It would however bring in a bunch of extra income, which is a good thing for all players.
2. If you think these great rewards at 3 years - 5years keeps people playing longer your crazy. I promise you noone is going to play for an xtra year just to get some boxing shorts or a Nemesis Staff. For people just starting this game, well who knows if this game will even be around in 5 years? Even if it is, they will have 10 year Vet rewards by then so a new person can never get half this stuff. The idea that Vet rewards keep people playing longer is just false. The money they'd pay to get these rewards immediatly is quite real.
3. If players were aloud to buy the rewards, I don't think they should be able to pick and choose. They would be aloud to buy them in order from whatever reward they are currently on. So if you have 9 months of Vet rewards and want the 24th month vet reward, you'd have to buy 12, 15, 18, 21, and then 24. That's $25 that just went to the game and that helps now, not in 2 years when this player will supposedly still be playing just so they can get this reward. Just don't include the Badge with the rewards, this way you can still see how long people have actually been playing.
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1. My reply is the post directly above yours. Though I never said it affected mine don't know where you came up with that.
The other two points were never said by me.
--Rad
/whereami: