I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.
I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."
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People are uneasy about the removal of a menu on completion...it changes a lot of live Tasks such as Hess, Katie, Cap and others to be sure.
Remember that Open Beta is still there; though things tend to be 'cemented' in closed and the Merit System won't be torn down, your feedback on the Merit System award iteration is important. Many will likely be quite upset at losing the reward menu.
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I like the idea of a Merit system and this seems like a good effort on the part of the Developers, I'm just not sure why they are removing the old mechanic in conjunction with this implementation.
Has there been any Dev rationale for that? I was under the impression that the merit system was supplemental or alternative to the current reward system.
Open Beta is more about load testing and I doubt things will change unless there is a significant outcry and even then, we may not see a change.
In any case, I will be making my preference known to leave the reward window in place with Merits being an added option upon completion. I urge all who are just learning of this change and disagree with it to do so as well.
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Originally this whole merit system was pitched to the players as a additional way to get a recipe, however it has been implemented to remove the option to have a random recipe drop.
I dislike this a lot. It gets rid of the incentive to run the shorter task forces since they are going to be worth less than they once were. the base for a lot of the task forces are 25, which is enough for a single random roll, which is good. If the random recipe drop were reinstated as an option I think the merit system would be fantastic.
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I agree.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I am confused how running the 3rd respec trial doesnt give enough merits to earn a Pool D random. Other than that, I am just mildly disappointed.
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I don't understand what the devs were thinking, though. What problem were they
trying to solve?
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I asked that exact question...
Essentially (afai can tell), they wrote a lot of code to essentially make a recipe store, where
the currency of exchange is merits...
Frankly, they'd have accomplished much the same thing by adding those recipes to the existing
zone stores and setting fixed inf prices.
What you're going to see is some serious disconnects (in merit prices) between various shinys
having essentially the same bonuses...
The example I used (which may have changed since I saw it last) was L30 Acc/Dmg set IO's.
Pounding Slugfest went for 20 Merits... Mako's Bite goes for 125... Slugfest offers regen bonus
and Mako offers Immob reduction (off the top of my head - I'm at work and can't see it now)...
Guess which one means more to me??? Not to mention it is 1/6th the merit cost.
As others are now seeing, those kinds of goofy disparities are all over the place...
Definitely a Big head scratcher for me...
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
You get bonus Merits (I think 20) for completing or the Respec. That gives 45 Merits which should add up to your Pool D.
That's my understanding from the group that ran a Hero Respec.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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What about Rikti Raids?
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Rikti raids still give vanguard merits but not "new" merits.
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You get bonus Merits (I think 20) for completing or the Respec. That gives 45 Merits which should add up to your Pool D.
That's my understanding from the group that ran a Hero Respec.
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I don't think that is the case anymore. We ran a hero respec after the 10/31 patch and only got 25 merits total.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Of course it's not. Being able to slam down a recipe every 30 minutes (barring the 4-hour window) is extremely popular.
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I've never chain-run Katie, or any other speed TF. I have a limited schedule most of the time, though, so being able to catch a faster TF from time to time and get the shot at something cool kept me coming back.
They'll succeed in stopping the farming of certain TFs with this. They'll also succeed in stopping people from logging in just to see if something quick and fun is going on. Bad decision.
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It's also clearly not the speed at which you're supposed to be able to get rare, good recipes.
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I keep seeing this argument. If you could reliably get a Numina's or a Miracle or a LotG7.5 in 30 minutes, it would have merit.
2/3 of Pool C is utter garbage, but now it's going to be utter garbage that no one has access to because only the mathematically impaired will consistently pay 25 merits for a random drop. If 2/3 of the pool is dreck, then you should get something non-dreck 1/3 of the time. So, figure once every 90 minutes you get something relatively cool. 90 minutes in the TF system (5 minutes = 1 merit) is 18 merits, not 25 merits. Even that would be an improvement.
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Getting merits for story arcs should hopefully offset the decrease in rate at least somewhat.
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Depends at least partly on the mechanics and whether teammates get merits for completing live (rather than Ouroboros) arcs. Also, how many missions teammates have to be with you for, if they can get merits for completing live arcs. If it's the whole thing, say buh-bye to PuGs. Of course, they never do anything but papers anyway, and there's no incentive to change that if teammates don't get arc merits. If they do, and it's for less than the full arc, I look forward to the new spam of, "Selling spots for last mish of Praetorian arc, 5m inf/per, pst!"
I had gotten to the point where I convinced myself that this implementation could be interesting and fun. Looking at the numbers, I don't see it. It's pretty much all of my worst fears rolled up into one "grind away" package.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Yeah that is going to kill the prices of doctor wounds or shot them into the stratosphere
considering not that many people will be buying them. Making influence worthless again lol.
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It won't (imho) make influence worthless by any means.
It will, however, vastly shift which shinys will be available on the market, and which will
(probably only) be available through merits.
This will lead to definite cases of "buy X with influence only" and "get Y with merits only"
The conversion rate of merits to influence is going to be wonky due to all the weird pricings.
I doubt it'll resolve to a simple 1 merit = x influence rate because of the very arbitrary
(and frankly, bizarre) pricings among items of vastly different perceived player values for those
items.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
So anyone running speed Katies or Eden, get them in now before they cease to have value.
Miladys Knight made a shield scrapper and leveled him up from 1 to 26 running his contact's arcs and amassed 86 merits in about 10 days of play. No TFs/Trials/GMs at all.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Devs didn't say much about the Merit system apart from Phil explaining the rationale. I have a feeling not many people took the Single Origin Enhancement so the Devs may have looked at Pool C and D and said..."How long should this take to earn?" You can get an SO for 15 Merits :s
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There's a rationale? I'd love to hear it!
what all this seems to say is that it is going to be HARDER to get certain recipies and that the prices will increase. WHY?
People will hoard merits to get what they want, no more random rolls, thus less supply on the market.(this speaks only to the Trial/TF rewards, not those that drop from random mobs). Those are going to seem to be a lot more rare. and it is going to take me longer to save up merits it seems than to save up the cash to buy something i want on the market. uggg, thinking about it is really turning me off to the system. It doesn't seem like we get many merits, and the rewards are farther off. i don't like grinding 
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Peterpeter:
Pool Cs are between 125-250.
Pool A-Bs seem to be 50
Pool Ds are at the higher end, usually around 250 or so.
Some of the prices seem wacky, even for a perma-whiner like me. Crushing Impacts and Doctored Wounds at 50 is...out there.
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...
What did I say about the devs putting prices on things a while ago?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
do you only get merits for your own story arcs?
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what all this seems to say is that it is going to be HARDER to get certain recipies and that the prices will increase. WHY?
People will hoard merits to get what they want, no more random rolls, thus less supply on the market.(this speaks only to the Trial/TF rewards, not those that drop from random mobs). Those are going to seem to be a lot more rare. and it is going to take me longer to save up merits it seems than to save up the cash to buy something i want on the market. uggg, thinking about it is really turning me off to the system. It doesn't seem like we get many merits, and the rewards are farther off. i don't like grinding
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So you are saying 8 ITFs you will make 100mil to buy LoTG? I dont think so, you would have to be luck enough to get a purple on most of those runs to come even close to that.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.
I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."
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Completely agree with the flat rate for each pool. Value can be very subjective, and they're going to waste their time and drive themselves crazy trying to chase down and compensate for values of these things.
Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.
QR
Good lord, this system is so poorly thought out. I'm not going to preach doom, but this is going to hurt teaming. It's also going to make gaining Inventions a terrible grind without those "COOL" moments when you get something good unexpectedly.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.
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Don't underestimate the draw of the lottery. Yes, you might be able to mathematically prove that it's better to get the big ticket items every time, but there's a certain thrill to rolling the lottery to see what you get. I think quite a few people will happily grab 3 randoms right after Quaterfield on the off-chance they're all big tickets, even if the odds are against them.
You can call lotteries a tax on stupidity, and you might be right, but I think it'll still see a lot of use.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.
I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."
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Completely agree with the flat rate for each pool. Value can be very subjective, and they're going to waste their time and drive themselves crazy trying to chase down and compensate for values of these things.
Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.
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....
lol, just lol.
Some of the pricing on this stuff is making people (me included) scratch their heads.
Precisely why (combined with your first paragraph) I said when we had discussions on this pre-beta and in the market forum, that devs shouldn't be setting prices in this way.
Also could have sworn the system was first pitched by Posi as an ADDITIONAL way to earn POOL Cs. Though he has clarified why this philosophy was changed, its disappointing to say the least.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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To Ironblade: Eden gets completed in 10-15 minutes on average, no typo.
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Well, I don't believe this. I've done with this with different people, different SG's, etc and have never done it that fast. Not even close. I don't believe that many people are 'speed running' it when I know so many people who consider it the best TF/trial in the game and take their time.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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what all this seems to say is that it is going to be HARDER to get certain recipies and that the prices will increase. WHY?
People will hoard merits to get what they want, no more random rolls, thus less supply on the market.(this speaks only to the Trial/TF rewards, not those that drop from random mobs). Those are going to seem to be a lot more rare. and it is going to take me longer to save up merits it seems than to save up the cash to buy something i want on the market. uggg, thinking about it is really turning me off to the system. It doesn't seem like we get many merits, and the rewards are farther off. i don't like grinding
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So you are saying 8 ITFs you will make 100mil to buy LoTG? I dont think so, you would have to be luck enough to get a purple on most of those runs to come even close to that.
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I made slightly over 60 million in one day by doing an ITF, a few missions, and then another ITF. Guess Im gonna log in on live and see if I can get one started now, time to farm before this goes live.
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
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do you only get merits for your own story arcs?
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Yes. The only way teams will get Merits will be by coordinating Merit runs through TFs. I'm not even sure if a team going through Ouroboros would all get the Merit reward.
With more IO salvage coming through base conversions, I can see salvage become worthless .
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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do you only get merits for your own story arcs?
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Yes. The only way teams will get Merits will be by coordinating Merit runs through TFs. I'm not even sure if a team going through Ouroboros would all get the Merit reward.
With more IO salvage coming through base conversions, I can see salvage become worthless .
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uuuuggggh, I was hoping they had some tech to split it across teams.
But then again with the way the old end of arc-SO reward work this doesn't surprise me.
I seriously doubt most (read 99%) teams will coordinate like that.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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You get bonus Merits (I think 20) for completing or the Respec. That gives 45 Merits which should add up to your Pool D.
That's my understanding from the group that ran a Hero Respec.
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That changed during closed, Respec OR merits
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Peterpeter:
Pool Cs are between 125-250.
Pool A-Bs seem to be 50
Pool Ds are at the higher end, usually around 250 or so.
Some of the prices seem wacky, even for a perma-whiner like me. Crushing Impacts and Doctored Wounds at 50 is...out there.
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It's not just wacky, it's unbelievable. And the reasoning given
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Next, the Merit Reward cost of items on the merit vendor are a bit more complex. The factors that go into determining the costs are: rarity, the drop table they originally came from, set bonuses, and then a few modifiers like perceived value and whether they are unique or not. You end up with some really powerful enhancements like Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/+Recovery as being very expensive as you would imagine because, it's high level, has good set bonuses, has a high perceived value, and drops from a Task Force reward table. This particular recipe goes for 250 merits. Another set I've seen mentioned a number of times is Crushing Impact. Some players wonder why its so cheap, only going for 50 merits each. The reason this set is so much cheaper is: it's an uncommon drop (not rare), has good (but not amazing set bonuses), and its perceived value varies. They can get up there in cost on the Auction Houses, but they're no Numina's.
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A lot of the "valuation" calculation seems to be based on things like "percieved value" and the "amazing"-ness of set bonues.
All this subjective valuation for Recipes, makes me wonder why have any random drops in the game at all. We had a store before, if they just want it to be a store, make it a store.
I'm not much of a doomsayer, but this just doesn't seem very well thought out or implemented.