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Not gonna work.
On the otherhand, it looks like good'ole inf farming is the best way to get your stuff. That way it does not really matter how much stuff cost as long as its on the market. Getting inf is MUCH faster to get than grinding for merits alone.
I'm done with trying to discuss it.
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But like the Black Market last winter, all the inf in the world can't buy stuff if people aren't selling it. 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I understand that the 3 hour timer is not there anymore. But you have a 24 hour diminishing return penalty on any single TF. Meaning that if you run the same TF back to back, or even the same one every night at the same time, you will be subject to diminishing returns. I do not know what the exact diminishing return is. I don't think anyone has tested that significantly.
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Interestingly...
I just ran A Hero's Hero twice in a row on Test, timing myself because it seems like the reward is a tad low (19 merits =~ 95 minutes, and I really have to push it, on heroic, to finish with my scrapper at around that time; 1h39m was my second time, and I had to respec into SuperSpeed, so it really seems a tad fast for a datamined average time, but I disgress).
Second time I got the same 19 merits I did on the first one.
Seems like the diminishing returns don't apply to Ouroarcs (EDIT: Or at least it takes more than 2 runs to trigger it... I also took my 38 merits, rolled a random recipe because it's test, and got a Sandman's Chance to Heal, I'm so disappointed I didn't get a Crap of the Hunter. The odd thing is that it was level 50, but I hit the "roll random 35-39", hmmm).
I'll leave you to ponder the immediate meaning of that 
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I found the same thing running Villain arcs, Ouro missions don't seem to have diminishing returns. I /bugged it, I would guess that they would want that, otherwise people will just bang out the best Merit/per hour Story Arc over and over to get what they want.
I assume that isn't the behavior they're hoping to provoke with this.
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Nope but if they don't fix it before Live, you can bet it is where we will find the merit farmers.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Why, dont you get it? Because this is all in their plan to time sink people into playing more/longer for more profits. This has nothing to do with our fun, risk vs reward of any of the BS they have spewed in advertisements and on this board.
Its all about our time=money. Now that I see that is their prime objective, I will just inf farm and buy the stuff I want.
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Truth right here.
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Well that sucks hard.
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Welcome to life in Issue 13 under our new Merit Overlords.
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I for one welcome our Merit-sucking Overlords.
Wait, nevermind.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
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But like the Black Market last winter, all the inf in the world can't buy stuff if people aren't selling it.
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Ok here it goes. They didn't have to care about the supply in BM last year. I bet with merits the moment something rare is not on WW/BM to buy without having grindmerits, they will have to do something because this board is gonna light up.
In other words if merits adversely effect the supply of recipes that can be bought with inf on the market, people are going to explode in rage and angry here on the boards.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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But like the Black Market last winter, all the inf in the world can't buy stuff if people aren't selling it.
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Ok here it goes. They didn't have to care about the supply in BM last year. I bet with merits the moment something rare is not on WW/BM to buy without having grindmerits, they will have to do something because this board is gonna light up.
In other words if merits adversely effect the supply of recipes that can be bought with inf on the market, people are going to explode in rage and angry here on the boards.
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Darth, that doesn't follow on. The complaints about lack of Recipes at the BM are long and many.
I don't see them doing anything about rares drying up at the BM or WW. The Devs are knowingly and willingly consigning these segments of the "Primary Market" to oblivion.
They don't care about the market, they've given birth to a new and better market.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
WOW, maybe you are right mate, I had not considered that possibility. What a shame...
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Two questions: First, I have a couple characters I've been trying to IO out and who have run quite a few story arcs and TF's - will they receive retroactively awarded merits for story arcs already run (somehow I doubt it), and if not (second), will they be penalized for running those arcs again through Oroborous?
[/ QUOTE ]I look at this as a great time to work towards the ouroboros badges.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Also, they are constricting salvage holdings in bases to 30 in each bin including Halloween and Candy Canes. They probably think that they can force people to sell it and not hoard it to keep the prices down this way.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Gosh, I wanna be positive for I13 after Castle did such a GREAT job on the Kheld changes and toggles for all. But the merit misrepresentation and the now you have to grind four times as much for a chance at something good, thing has me a bit chaffed.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I guess what bothers me the most about the merit system is that for a casual player (i.e. someone who has limited time on any given night to play due to Real Life) will mostly go virtually unrewarded for many things that they do. These are the players who don't really 'grind' much of anything. Therefore, spending a large chunk of an evening grinding TF's or a story arc that only give a few at a time isn't really all that enticing.
Think of it like this:
- TF's take time to do and not everyone has that sort of time.
- It will be more difficult to find people to make a team for just doing missions, because everyone wants to do their OWN story arcs for rewards. Less teaming = less fun.
- Since only the person whose story arc it belongs to will get the merits involved, they will not get merits if they join a PUG to team for fun.
- If the casual player were able to make time to do a TF, they no longer have that immediate gratifaction of getting the recipe after it's done. Instead, they have to save them up to even have a chance at a recipe they may or may not want.
This doesn't really apply to me as much because I am able to spend quite a few hours on during the week and weekends. Personally, I have friends who avoid TF/trials for the time it takes to do them (do them normally to enjoy the gameply and story, NOT speedrunning to farm.) I realize that most players are fine with grinding and farming, but the merit system as it stands will leave casual players feeling like they are missing out on an important part of the reward system.
Just a thought.
But wait, didn't you hear, Inventions are optional.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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But wait, didn't you hear, Inventions are optional.
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They will be... 
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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But wait, didn't you hear, Inventions are optional.
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Oh yeah...I forgot. It's a privilege, not a right.
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I don't think you understand the new system. Once every 24 hours, so if you do the tf anytime during that 24 hours then the second reward of merits will be based on punishment of returns.
[/ QUOTE ]Then you shouldn't have used the word "consecutive" there. (Yes, I realize I'm nitpicking.)
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
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Also, they are constricting salvage holdings in bases to 30 in each bin including Halloween and Candy Canes. They probably think that they can force people to sell it and not hoard it to keep the prices down this way.
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Luckily, I have over 200 alts I can put things on, and more free server slots if I feel the need. Can't force meh!!!
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
My thoughts on the Merit System
The main goals of the system seem to be:
1. Force an equivalence between a two hour TF and a random recipe roll.
2. Create more opportunities to earn progress towards specific recipes rather than the random roll.
3. Discourage players from farming 'Speed TFs', including Katie Hannon, Eden, Hess, etc...
I *like* points one and two. I'm not sure that I would have chosen Manticore as the ruler for a random roll, but it's a GOOD thing that the devs are stating 'This is how much effort we want before this reward.' It gives them a framework in which to construct future reward systems. Also, since it's a system rather than a trigger, it's much more amenable to small tweaks rather than massive, game-altering changes.
For example, the 'Fix' for Quick Katies before would be to yank the recipe reward. Now it can be scaled up or down. If, say, players discover a way to do 'Speed Posi', and the majority of Positron runs suddenly take 30 minutes, that 50 merit reward can be bumped down rather than removed entirely. Note that's just an example.
Better yet, allowing players to earn progress to those same recipes by working the shorter taskforcers, arcs, and missions is fantastic! It has significant potential to pull people back away from grinding Radio missions. I know that I'll quickly be building my very own 'Save up for' lists for each of my characters!
Good Work, devs!
Now issue 3 is the one that bothers me.
My reasons for doing Katie Hannon's TF are perhaps a little skewed from the general populace. I like it because it doubles as a 'Mini-Trial'. You're required to fight ten Arch-villains of increasing difficulty and then shepherd Katie out of a difficult ambush. It's a good opportunity for group leaders to learn a little bit of leadership skill and for group members to learn to follow instructions, employ tactics, and use their powers to the fullest for the benefit of the group rather than simply scrapperlock on redcaps and witches.
The recipe at the end is a happy bonus for me. That's certainly not the case for everyone who partakes in a KHTF.
Having the recipe at the end makes it fairly easy to recruit for KHTF. "Here's a 25-45 minute exercise that has some nice one-time awards and a recipe at the end," becomes, "Here's a 25-45 minute exercise that has some nice one-time awards and 1/4th of a recipe at the end."
I'd personally still do it. However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the number of people willing to learn to fight 10 AVs in a row is going to dry up a bit.
My suggestion for buffering this somewhat is to alter the drop scheme so that a base reward is applied on top of each AV defeated in the mission.
For example, if you give 1 merit for each Mary and then another single Merit at the end of the TF, you have 11 instead of 7.
Compare to the 'SpeEden' runs, where you have 2 GMs and 3 AVs. If you award a single merit on top of those for completion, you have a 6 merit trial.
In short, I love the system, but wish it gave players slightly more incentive to hunt AVs.
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For example, if you give 1 merit for each Mary and then another single Merit at the end of the TF, you have 11 instead of 7.
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horrible idea... nobody would ever complete it... ever...
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I'm not going to chase their fuggin merits.
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On this point we are in perfect accord.
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I quite agree. Why grind needlessly when the Market provides?
~Gabriel
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If a significant percentage of players adopt that attitude, the Market will not provide. Or rather, the Market price for certain goods (Pool C and D) will greatly increase.
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For example, if you give 1 merit for each Mary and then another single Merit at the end of the TF, you have 11 instead of 7.
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horrible idea... nobody would ever complete it... ever...
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They would if you:
a) Make the first mission failable again (after all, if you fail you lose the merits!).
b) Make the merit payment upon delivery, i.e., when the TF is completed, and not before then. Depending on how many times you defeated Mary, you get more or less merits at the end.
Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!
It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...
The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013
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I guess what bothers me the most about the merit system is that for a casual player (i.e. someone who has limited time on any given night to play due to Real Life) will mostly go virtually unrewarded for many things that they do.
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Why...why, why, why do you people think grinding is the only way to go?
Casual player. Solos, mostly. Takes his time leveling up. Does the contacts and the story arcs because they provide a nice XP bonus at the end. Doesn't do TFs because he doesn't have the time/doesn't particularly want to group.
Under the current system, he'd get no pool C drops at all. He'd be lucky to get anything decent from regular enemy drops, and he surely wouldn't have the inf to buy anything beyond SOs until he gets into the 40s-50s.
Under the merit system, he'll steadily accumulate merits through story arcs, and will be able to trade them in relatively quickly for random recipes or save them up for better stuff in the high levels.
I really think the story arcs are getting underestimated here. All y'all can think about is how grinding is going to be hurt and somehow that affects the casual player's ability to get decent stuff. The casual player doesn't give a crap about grinding, but he will be able to accumulate merits naturally over the course of his character's career.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
What bothers me the most about the merit system, especially where casual players* are concerned, is that you can't earn merits while you're logged off. I spend a lot of time logged off. I hardly spend any time logged on. I probably play for 5 hours a week these days. I can earn influence hand over fist. The less time I spend in game, the more influence I can make. Patience pays on the marketplace. I have tried and tried to convince people of this, but I'm afraid I never got through to most people: the market was the best thing that ever happened to casual players. Put in a bid and walk away. List an item and walk away. By the time I got back to playing again, the money was just sitting there waiting for me. Using the market, I could afford shinies way out of proportion to the time I spent in game, not despite being a casual player, but because of it. A hardcore powergamer could spend hours farming and earn the same amount that I accrued over the course of a few days when I wasn't even logged on. What a great equalizer!
Merits don't work like that. If you don't log on, you don't get merits. The number of merits you have is strictly proportional to the amount of time you spend playing. Want to be rich? Play a lot. Play a little? Be poor. It's a rigid class system that dooms me to eternal poverty. Or it would, if it were the only game in town. As long as the market is still a viable means of acquiring items, I'll be ok. I don't think the market will tank any time soon. I think everything will be fine. I hope so. If I have to rely on merits to acquire things, then I'm stuck with SO's again.
* Casual Player is defined for purposes of this post as: Me.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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I guess what bothers me the most about the merit system is that for a casual player (i.e. someone who has limited time on any given night to play due to Real Life) will mostly go virtually unrewarded for many things that they do.
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Why...why, why, why do you people think grinding is the only way to go?
Casual player. Solos, mostly. Takes his time leveling up. Does the contacts and the story arcs because they provide a nice XP bonus at the end. Doesn't do TFs because he doesn't have the time/doesn't particularly want to group.
Under the current system, he'd get no pool C drops at all. He'd be lucky to get anything decent from regular enemy drops, and he surely wouldn't have the inf to buy anything beyond SOs until he gets into the 40s-50s.
Under the merit system, he'll steadily accumulate merits through story arcs, and will be able to trade them in relatively quickly for random recipes or save them up for better stuff in the high levels.
I really think the story arcs are getting underestimated here. All y'all can think about is how grinding is going to be hurt and somehow that affects the casual player's ability to get decent stuff. The casual player doesn't give a crap about grinding, but he will be able to accumulate merits naturally over the course of his character's career.
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How dumb is this player you are thinking of when you wrote this?
I sell my Luck Charms and place lowball bids on Accuracy IOs that the crafters dump on the market. I buy low price set IOs for frankenslotting?
I guess I never understand this hypothetical casual player. He is too dumb to succeed under one system but will magically get enough merits and use them to get all the right recipes in the next.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I guess I never understand this hypothetical casual player. He is too dumb to succeed under one system but will magically get enough merits and use them to get all the right recipes in the next.
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Hey, don't look at me, go talk to the guy I was responding to who said the casual player will never get anything with the merit system. The main thrust of my point was that even if this hypothetical player never does TFs, he'll still get merits through the normal course of play. You don't have to make time for a Posi or Quaterfield to earn, and grinding out Katies certainly isn't necessary nor expected.
That's better than the current system, where the exact same player either has to earn a buttload of influence (not that easy for a new player; only after a year do I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of the market) or make time to participate in a TF, or else he gets nothing from Pool C.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
So DR hasn't been thoroughly tested or analyzed yet...anywhere that anyone can find.
No Dev confirmation on whether or not DR applies to Ouro either.
Some hint at expected results would be helpful.
Repeat Offenders