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what all this seems to say is that it is going to be HARDER to get certain recipies and that the prices will increase. WHY?
People will hoard merits to get what they want, no more random rolls, thus less supply on the market.(this speaks only to the Trial/TF rewards, not those that drop from random mobs). Those are going to seem to be a lot more rare. and it is going to take me longer to save up merits it seems than to save up the cash to buy something i want on the market. uggg, thinking about it is really turning me off to the system. It doesn't seem like we get many merits, and the rewards are farther off. i don't like grinding 
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So you are saying 8 ITFs you will make 100mil to buy LoTG? I dont think so, you would have to be luck enough to get a purple on most of those runs to come even close to that.
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I made slightly over 60 million in one day by doing an ITF, a few missions, and then another ITF. Guess Im gonna log in on live and see if I can get one started now, time to farm before this goes live.
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bingo! with recipe drops/salvage drops/AND a random recipe at the end of 8 ITF's, i usually make over 100 million. Usually. I don't doubt there are times were i only made 5-8 million.... minimum.
Not to mention Trial recipe drops. a devastation Triple costs at the market 15,000,000(quoting smurphy). Now it costs 275 merits. that's 11 ITF's. I could just have done 2-3 ITF's and made the money to buy it under the old system.
If I'm doing someone else's story arc with them. Will everyone on the team get merits when the arc is completed?
"If Pro is the opposite of Con, then what is the opposite of Congress?"
Progressman - Level 50 - Energy/Energy Blaster - 500 Badges
~Virtue~
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To Ironblade: Eden gets completed in 10-15 minutes on average, no typo.
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Well, I don't believe this. I've done with this with different people, different SG's, etc and have never done it that fast. Not even close. I don't believe that many people are 'speed running' it when I know so many people who consider it the best TF/trial in the game and take their time.
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I agree with Ironblade wholly on this. I have heard people talk about doing these that fast, and I don't doubt that it can be done. This sounds like a geometry glitch or somesuch. I would say that the average player is not 'in the know' on how that is done so fast.
A '2' for Eden's is pretty much a guarantee that no one will ever run this again, except for the badge.
The rest of the system I like alot. My favorite part of this new system is getting merits for doing story arcs. This is excellent news. Lets face it, the ever-mediocre enhancement rewards for story arcs was never much of a draw. Merits are a great incentive to get people to see the story content. I do have a question concerning this though:
For characters that have already completed a story arc, Flashback or otherwise, can they get the chance to earn the merits by completing it through flashback?
Overall 2 thumbs up! 
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I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.
I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."
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Completely agree with the flat rate for each pool. Value can be very subjective, and they're going to waste their time and drive themselves crazy trying to chase down and compensate for values of these things.
Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.
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....
lol, just lol.
Some of the pricing on this stuff is making people (me included) scratch their heads.
Precisely why (combined with your first paragraph) I said when we had discussions on this pre-beta and in the market forum, that devs shouldn't be setting prices in this way.
Also could have sworn the system was first pitched by Posi as an ADDITIONAL way to earn POOL Cs. Though he has clarified why this philosophy was changed, its disappointing to say the least.
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Exactly. Merits were initially touted as an alternative to getting Pool Cs but weren't supposed to be better on average than actually running TFs and taking the random drop.
Now they are everything but purples and Hami-Os and special salvages.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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To Ironblade: Eden gets completed in 10-15 minutes on average, no typo.
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Well, I don't believe this. I've done with this with different people, different SG's, etc and have never done it that fast. Not even close. I don't believe that many people are 'speed running' it when I know so many people who consider it the best TF/trial in the game and take their time.
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I've participated in a couple speed Eden runs with a group I know who runs it regularly. I have sort of mixed feelings about it, because I love running Eden "for real" and hate to trivialize the best content in the game. So I made up for it later by running Eden the longer (and more enjoyable IMHO) way with a group from my SG.
Eden can indeed be run in 10-15 minutes, by ignoring the quarries, hitting the two walls, and rushing the crystal titan. As long as you have a group full of buffs, debuffs, and ranged damage that can survive the titan it's pretty simple.
Personally I'd like to see the devs improve Eden to make it more challenging, and less shortcut-prone. And while they're at it, they can increase the merit reward. 
After seeing this post, I can see how people can run it in 15 minutes. It looks like you have to have just the right combo to do it, whereas just about any combo can do a Katie in 30-45 minutes.
I just really like Eden trial and hate to see it trivialized.
RIP Eden. I knew you well. :`(
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I started a "Make a flat rate for each pool, end arbitrary pricing" thread on the Closed Beta forums. There was no response. I don't understand what the heck they are trying to accomplish.
I don't think they do either. They sorta just said "yeah, what the heck, let's just go with that."
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Completely agree with the flat rate for each pool. Value can be very subjective, and they're going to waste their time and drive themselves crazy trying to chase down and compensate for values of these things.
Also, I wonder if anyone will even use the random roll feature. It seems like people will probably just horde their merits to spend on big ticket items.
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lol, just lol.
Some of the pricing on this stuff is making people (me included) scratch their heads.
Precisely why (combined with your first paragraph) I said when we had discussions on this pre-beta and in the market forum, that devs shouldn't be setting prices in this way.
Also could have sworn the system was first pitched by Posi as an ADDITIONAL way to earn POOL Cs. Though he has clarified why this philosophy was changed, its disappointing to say the least.
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Exactly. Merits were initially touted as an alternative to getting Pool Cs but weren't supposed to be better on average than actually running TFs and taking the random drop.
Now they are everything but purples and Hami-Os and special salvages.
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There's one other thing that frustrates me about merits. It seems like a lot of my flexibility is gone. As things are now, I can do a TF on my scrapper or something, and then if the recipe is appropriate for my defender, get someone's help to hand it off to him. I forsee merits discouraging my alt-itis to some extent.
I will probably only run high level TFs on my defender going forward, because why have five 50s with a handful of merits each, when you'd be better off hording them on one? So it cuts into my character-playing decisions in a way I'm not used to in CoX.
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Also could have sworn the system was first pitched by Posi as an ADDITIONAL way to earn POOL Cs. Though he has clarified why this philosophy was changed, its disappointing to say the least.
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Dang, I wish now that Beta was open we had access to all of these statements of philosophy and clarifications... because I have no idea what problem the whole merit system is supposed to be addressing. Basically it changes the drop system a lot, and I think it'll make it worse for some people and better for other, and definitely a whole lot more grindy... but why? what was broken with the random drop system?
Additional rewards for longer TFs? Lessening the rewards for Katie? Then give out merits for TF completion and have 2 Katies = enough merits for 1 random drop, 1 posi = 3 random drops, etc.
That change alone would have a significant affect on the market. The changes in beta seem likely to blow the market to pieces....
Basically we'll have two completely different competing economies, each with their own currency... but one of those economys is completely dependent on having a critical mass, and the other one is completely self-sufficient. Guess which one is not going to benefit from the competition.
wait you all are confused about this pricing system too? that the first thing i posted on in the beta forums... not much of a def response...
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I agree with Ironblade wholly on this. I have heard people talk about doing these that fast, and I don't doubt that it can be done. This sounds like a geometry glitch or somesuch.
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Uh, no.
You just need to know what you're doing and how to navigate the maps. In particular, you need to know what not to do.
As an aside, expect the merit rewards for most of the TFs and trials to decline over time, because the devs have just motivated everyone to start running all the ones with decent rewards as fast as they can. What today is done by a few is going to be done by more and more people over time, motivating the devs to reduce the reward to account for it.
This system is moronic.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Ok so now when a TF is starting up and isn't a well balanced team, I will have to choose between my character who is building up enough merits to actually use them and the character that is the right fit. Right now I could bring a dominator, blaster, tank, warshade, defender, or brute to an ITF depending on what would work best for the team. If merits can't be traded then there's a big incentive to stick to one character, and this is against everything that makes CoH fun for me.
Hmm. I think you're going to see people doing task forces who are actually of the correct level for the TF. Less people total but more who are "in it for the XP."
I also think you're going to see a lot more people using the random roll than you guys expect.
IF there are 1/5 as many TF recipes as there used to be (less TF's and katies being 1/3 of a roll and whatnot)
AND your roll gives you a 1/3 chance of "Something good"
THEN for 75 merits you get "something good" which will be similar in value to "something specifically good". (I don't know what "similar in value" means, I'll admit.)
My "1/3 chance for something good" is a very rough estimate.
The very good is LoTG +Rech, Numina and Miracle uniques.
The merely good:
* three chances for a nonteleport stealth.
* Gift of the Ancients: Defense
* Devastation: Dam/Rech or Chance for Hold
* Impervium: Resist or Psi Resist
* Decimation: A/E/R
* Aegis: Psi/Status
* Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing
* Mako: Dam/Rech
* Posi: A/D/E or Chance for Damage
* Scir: A/D/E or Chance for Damage
* Touch of Death: A/D/E
That's about 17 out of about 60 on the paragonwiki list- plus the three "very good."
If you take ten rolls you will get on average one of the "excellent" and two of the "good". Plus seven increasingly-rare normal recipes. All for the price of one "Excellent" or "Good" and some spare change.
Do I think that we'll run out of Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Fear/Recharge ? Not really. But it's going to be rarer and rarer.
I will admit that I'm going to miss some big trends here. Farmers vs. nonfarmers may form two totally different social classes. I don't know.
But my money says "spin the wheel to win."
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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IF there are 1/5 as many TF recipes as there used to be (less TF's and katies being 1/3 of a roll and whatnot)
AND your roll gives you a 1/3 chance of "Something good"
THEN for 75 merits you get "something good" which will be similar in value to "something specifically good".
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That is so not true.
That's only true in the long run, where you spend the time buying a random drop 150 times or so.
Averages are not the same as probabilities. A 33% chance of a good thing does not mean you get a good thing after 3 tries.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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All pricings as of October 31 P.M. Eastern, Enjoy!
Collected Data for Merit Structure:
Merits are a new reward system...
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Thanks Neuronia!
...what a big mess though.
(The design changes, not your write-up.)
Repeat Offenders
Will Wentworths still be there? Will there still be a reason to use it? I'm baffled by the loss of the random drop selection at the end of the TF will this effectivly kill the market?
This is just wow- I was hoping for at least less of a chance to get crap at the end of a Tf but now it's just seems like over kill.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
Ugh nevermind- for some reason I forgot there are still some recipes that you can only get through random drops and then sell/buy on the market.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Ok so now when a TF is starting up and isn't a well balanced team, I will have to choose between my character who is building up enough merits to actually use them and the character that is the right fit. Right now I could bring a dominator, blaster, tank, warshade, defender, or brute to an ITF depending on what would work best for the team. If merits can't be traded then there's a big incentive to stick to one character, and this is against everything that makes CoH fun for me.
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I feel the same way!
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
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Averages are not the same as probabilities. A 33% chance of a good thing does not mean you get a good thing after 3 tries.
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I'm not too fond of the numbers. Solo story arcs have the same merit-time ratio as Task Forces.
This system completely disregards the time it would take to get a team together for the Task Forces. That time, if it goes unrewarded, would make people focus on Solo story arcs instead of teaming up for TF's.
Perhaps give more Merits to full teams, and maybe even higher difficulty settings. Either that or just give more merits to the TF depending on the minimum number of people required.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Still scratching me head about this one.
Due to my circumstances, my play time is limited and not often coinciding with the busy times on the servers. I love TF's and SF's but rarely get to run them (I have done 2 ITF's and 2 Lady Grey's in the last 4 months).
However I always like the mini rush at the end when ya roll the dice and take ur chances. No more of that then. It even seems to scupper those of us who run their toons to make enough influence/imfamy to then buy the TF recipe rewards from the market.
Doesn't look too great atm but we shall see how any changes made will affect it, the game and the player base.
FeeFye
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To Ironblade: Eden gets completed in 10-15 minutes on average, no typo.
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Well, I don't believe this. I've done with this with different people, different SG's, etc and have never done it that fast. Not even close. I don't believe that many people are 'speed running' it when I know so many people who consider it the best TF/trial in the game and take their time.
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Having been on a regular speeden team for a while that routinely broke 10 minutes and often broke 8 minutes, I'm not sure the numbers are off. I'll see if I can dig up the screenshot I took when my team completed Eden in 7 minutes 13 seconds. While that is not be typical, but the extreme performers blow the numbers for the average, and this can be seen on many of the merit reward numbers.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
If a "regular speeden" team does this twice a day in 20 minutes, the normal Edenites who do this once a month are going to get swamped.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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There's one other thing that frustrates me about merits. It seems like a lot of my flexibility is gone. As things are now, I can do a TF on my scrapper or something, and then if the recipe is appropriate for my defender, get someone's help to hand it off to him. I forsee merits discouraging my alt-itis to some extent.
I will probably only run high level TFs on my defender going forward, because why have five 50s with a handful of merits each, when you'd be better off hording them on one? So it cuts into my character-playing decisions in a way I'm not used to in CoX.
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I see this as an unrecognized, but very real issue. A lot of people who play CoH have a bad case of Altitus. The fact that merits can't be traded between characters punishes those who like to switch around among their various characters.
I'm not happy about this at all.
Man, I wish they'd datamine all the TFs I run ...
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Yes. The only way teams will get Merits will be by coordinating Merit runs through TFs. I'm not even sure if a team going through Ouroboros would all get the Merit reward.
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They do. This was tested. I'll be running a lot of flashbacks with SG mates due to this. Nice short 'TF style events' with a bonus at the end
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617