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Two questions: First, I have a couple characters I've been trying to IO out and who have run quite a few story arcs and TF's - will they receive retroactively awarded merits for story arcs already run (somehow I doubt it), and if not (second), will they be penalized for running those arcs again through Oroborous?
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Anybody? Anybody at all have an answer? Guess?
Also, is there any info on how many merits the Kheldian Story arcs get?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Merits are subject to diminishing returns?
Holy crap no way.
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Unfortunately, yes way.
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Two questions: First, I have a couple characters I've been trying to IO out and who have run quite a few story arcs and TF's - will they receive retroactively awarded merits for story arcs already run (somehow I doubt it), and if not (second), will they be penalized for running those arcs again through Oroborous?
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Anybody? Anybody at all have an answer? Guess?
Also, is there any info on how many merits the Kheldian Story arcs get?
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Catwhoorg has a thread in the I13 feedback. Meritorious merits or something like that is the subject. It lists the known merit rates as well as known bugs.
Kheldians seem to get 6-7 for their arcs but it seems to alternate level groups between shades and PBs.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Also, on a final note: The entire playerbase does not play optimally as a gigantic block. If that were the case, then literally the only builds you would see are FoTM builds and every run would be a speed run.
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The devs have never before presented them with the ability to simply look at rewards and say "hey, I can get some of the best rewards in the game if I run 10 ITFs". I mean I know an awful lot of people hate math, but I give most of them credit for being able to do division of 250 by 25.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yes consecutive in a 24 hour period. It seems the 3 hour system was not punishment enough, now they have you on punishment for 24 hours. Brilliant! 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Yes consecutive in a 24 hour period. It seems the 3 hour system was not punishment enough, now they have you on punishment for 24 hours. Brilliant!
[/ QUOTE ]"Consecutive" is the magic word, there. Now optimal farming behavior is to find two very-well rewarding tasks and alternate between them. If you can find two tasks which take less than 3 hours to complete back-to-back, this actually makes life easier on the farmers in terms of how quickly they can get their rewards in real-time.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
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Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
I don't think you understand the new system. Once every 24 hours, so if you do the tf anytime during that 24 hours then the second reward of merits will be based on punishment of returns. Very Major change and totally not what was advertised for months by Positron.
As it is now you run a Eden get your random drop. You can run another and just log the toon for 3 hours and get your random drop.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Well that sucks hard.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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Well that sucks hard.
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Welcome to life in Issue 13 under our new Merit Overlords.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Okay, totally didn't back-track very far so I may have missed this info.
So, is the diminishing returns for running the same TF over and over?
Is it for running one TF, then taking the same character and running a different TF, and so on and so forth but different tasks every time?
Is it for running one TF on one character, and then logging that character and logging in another to run either the same TF or another TF?
Or will it apply to any and all TFs I run no matter how I run them?
If the answer is yes to the last, that blows hard because I run TFs all the time and that's all I do, and it doesn't really matter which ones.
To answer a few questions:
You get respec or merits, not both. You get a drop box at the end and have to make a choice. This is also what happens in Hammy raids, STF and RSF -- you chose HO or merits.
I understand that the 3 hour timer is not there anymore. But you have a 24 hour diminishing return penalty on any single TF. Meaning that if you run the same TF back to back, or even the same one every night at the same time, you will be subject to diminishing returns. I do not know what the exact diminishing return is. I don't think anyone has tested that significantly.
I personally don't have a problem with most of the merit value assigned to the different TFs as the 5 min=1 merit metric seems fair enough to me. Multiplying the merits times 12 should give you the average time the devs datamined and those figures seem fairly accurate to me from the times I've done the different TFs.
The one exception I would make would be STF/RSF as many of the speed runs are accomplished by having nukes and shivans, but the time to collect those is not included in the datamine.
Finally, I am also somewhat to blame for the the low rewards on some of the TFs. I run with a fast crowd that frequesntly does 10 min Edens, 15 min treespecs, 30 minute ITFs, and 20 minute Katies.
I agree with TopDoc that the devs should "fix" the fast TFs by adding requirements that the average team does anyway.
I also think that as the availability of pool C recipes dry up, the price will go up in response to the reduced demand and that this will make picking a random drop worth 25 merits.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Blondeshell posted this on the closed forum as a rough guide to Recipe pricing:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Merit Rewards
Pool A (u)--- 50 --- 55 (good) --- 125 (really good)
Pool A (r) - 125 -- 135 (good) --- 150 (unique)
Pool B ----- 150 -- 165 (good) --- 180 (unique) --- 200 (good unique)
Pool C ----- 200 -- 220 (good) --- 240 (unique) --- 250/265 (good unique)
Pool D ----- 250 -- 275 (good)</pre><hr />
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Just noticed Sister Psyche is not in that list (or at least I overlooked it). Anyone know the number? I have screenies of 2 Posi runs at 3.1 and 3.6 hours on a minimum sized team. The same character ran a Sister Psyche in 4.25 hours with a minimum sized team. Would be interested in knowing where those numbers fit against the datamined average, and whether or not the payout for Psyche would make her's worth running.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
I'll be honest here, overall I like the idea of merits, and do think they are going in the right direction with it, but
-I do think some of the set recipes are a bit high, 250 merits, based on what will be the likely merit earning power of a toon, for 250 merits, I would hope for the complete set, or a purple recipes.
-I had hoped that HO's, Purples, costume peirces, and so on in there
-It would be nice for them to add a random role for recipes other than trial or taskforce
-Also I wouldn't mind to still have a choice for a random drop or mertis for the TF's/Trials
-I understand the problem with quick TF's, 3-6 hrs limit would seem to be more appropiate
-I also would hope that the difficulty level would factor in the merit drop( which it doesn't)
According to the list in Catwhoorg's post in the I13 feedback she gives 40 but it was reported that only one person got merits on the team.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Ok this new system already annoys me and I haven't tried it yet. The original notion that this was a supplemental system intrigued me. Now it sounds like a grind.
I have an idea to fix it though. Once a day before we go to work, and after maintaneance on Monday and Friday, we all get a group of 8, run a Katie till the last mission. Then we simply enter it and go to work. When the do there next data mining they will see Katies arwe taking anaverage of 8 hours now. Then the numbers will change so we can actually get something worthwhile.
Enjoy your day please.
Not gonna work.
On the otherhand, it looks like good'ole inf farming is the best way to get your stuff. That way it does not really matter how much stuff cost as long as its on the market. Getting inf is MUCH faster to get than grinding for merits alone.
I'm done with trying to discuss it.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I dont see why padding out the TF timers wont work.
At the very least it will keep some of the better TF's from getting their rewards cut in half.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Why, dont you get it? Because this is all in their plan to time sink people into playing more/longer for more profits. This has nothing to do with our fun, risk vs reward of any of the BS they have spewed in advertisements and on this board.
Its all about our time=money. Now that I see that is their prime objective, I will just inf farm and buy the stuff I want. I'm not going to chase their fuggin merits.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
If they want us to sit afk at the end of posi's and play flashgames.
So be it.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Why, dont you get it? Because this is all in their plan to time sink people into playing more/longer for more profits. This has nothing to do with our fun, risk vs reward of any of the BS they have spewed in advertisements and on this board.
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I'm no fan of their club-footed dancing with (on?) the market, but this criticism is unfair.
They don't care if we play at all, provided they get 14.99 every month.
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I'm not going to chase their fuggin merits.
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On this point we are in perfect accord.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I understand that the 3 hour timer is not there anymore. But you have a 24 hour diminishing return penalty on any single TF. Meaning that if you run the same TF back to back, or even the same one every night at the same time, you will be subject to diminishing returns. I do not know what the exact diminishing return is. I don't think anyone has tested that significantly.
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Interestingly...
I just ran A Hero's Hero twice in a row on Test, timing myself because it seems like the reward is a tad low (19 merits =~ 95 minutes, and I really have to push it, on heroic, to finish with my scrapper at around that time; 1h39m was my second time, and I had to respec into SuperSpeed, so it really seems a tad fast for a datamined average time, but I disgress).
Second time I got the same 19 merits I did on the first one.
Seems like the diminishing returns don't apply to Ouroarcs (EDIT: Or at least it takes more than 2 runs to trigger it... I also took my 38 merits, rolled a random recipe because it's test, and got a Sandman's Chance to Heal, I'm so disappointed I didn't get a Crap of the Hunter. The odd thing is that it was level 50, but I hit the "roll random 35-39", hmmm).
I'll leave you to ponder the immediate meaning of that
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I'm not going to chase their fuggin merits.
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On this point we are in perfect accord.
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I quite agree. Why grind needlessly when the Market provides?
~Gabriel
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I understand that the 3 hour timer is not there anymore. But you have a 24 hour diminishing return penalty on any single TF. Meaning that if you run the same TF back to back, or even the same one every night at the same time, you will be subject to diminishing returns. I do not know what the exact diminishing return is. I don't think anyone has tested that significantly.
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Interestingly...
I just ran A Hero's Hero twice in a row on Test, timing myself because it seems like the reward is a tad low (19 merits =~ 95 minutes, and I really have to push it, on heroic, to finish with my scrapper at around that time; 1h39m was my second time, and I had to respec into SuperSpeed, so it really seems a tad fast for a datamined average time, but I disgress).
Second time I got the same 19 merits I did on the first one.
Seems like the diminishing returns don't apply to Ouroarcs (EDIT: Or at least it takes more than 2 runs to trigger it... I also took my 38 merits, rolled a random recipe because it's test, and got a Sandman's Chance to Heal, I'm so disappointed I didn't get a Crap of the Hunter. The odd thing is that it was level 50, but I hit the "roll random 35-39", hmmm).
I'll leave you to ponder the immediate meaning of that
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I found the same thing running Villain arcs, Ouro missions don't seem to have diminishing returns. I /bugged it, I would guess that they would want that, otherwise people will just bang out the best Merit/per hour Story Arc over and over to get what they want.
I assume that isn't the behavior they're hoping to provoke with this.
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Except you get less merits each time due to the punishment of returns. These devs are so smart, its so strange to see them false advertise, mislead and make VERY poor decisions on the implementation of something that COULD have been good. Now it just stinks like a smelly river.
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Link or reference, please. I'd like to know the scaling.
And you meant "...each consecutive time..." correct?
Repeat Offenders