Why do the devs hate COV?

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If CoV and CoH really are just one in the same to some of you, then why are you fighitng so hard against more CoV specific features?

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I'm not sure that they (we?) are. I'd love better PPPs. Mu works great for my el/el brute. But my em/fire would prefer a fire themed patron (and I'd love focused accuracy on my SS/El).

I'd love more content redside too. But the way many seem to go about asking for said content is a bit....well...stupid.

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Terra, would you support that additions from this point on that left the current "blue side" exactly as is while updating only red side?

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I don't see how that could possibly be a good idea. Why not keep adding the kind of stuff they added last three issues while at the same time adding some unique stuff for both sides, even if CoV gets a little bit more. Remember, Heroes did have a significant head start so it makes perfect sense for there to be more content on that side. I have no problem with Villains catching up, but there is absolutely no good reason to neglect Heroes when a majority of people play blue side. Please tell me how your question would be a good idea to implement.

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If it's one game with 2 factions, then an issue devoted to either side (including the red side) shouldn't cause a stir on the forums. But it did, and it would again if the devs did that.

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Because there's plenty of idiots running around here with overblown senses of entitlement... on both sides.

It's one game. Believing otherwise is incorrect.

Nope. I would NOT gripe about another issue 7. Or 8. Or 9. Or 10. Or 11.

Other than the one gripe I've always had: that bugs and performance never get the attention they deserve. And can you imagine this? It's bugs and performance issues ON BOTH SIDES!!!!

Amazing.

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If CoV and CoH really are just one in the same to some of you, then why are you fighitng so hard against more CoV specific features?

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Go back and read my posts again. I have the sneaking suspicion you'll find numerous admittances that CoV needs content pretty badly, that it's not well-designed and needs to be improved and that I wouldn't bat an eye if an Issue were all villain-centric. I don't mean that as an insult, but I said these things several times. I would have expected you read them if you're quoting posts that contained them.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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If CoV and CoH really are just one in the same to some of you, then why are you fighitng so hard against more CoV specific features?

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For the same reason that people occasionally get into arguements about which tier of the game ought to get the next content addition. ("I'm so bored in the 30-40 tier!" "More missions for 50s plz"). People want content in the section of the game that's most interesting to them, or in the section of the game that the majority of people are playing.

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Terra, would you support that additions from this point on that left the current "blue side" exactly as is while updating only red side?

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I don't know about Terra, but I'd say no. Even though I'm predominantly a red-sider.

Mostly because then psycho/irrational/emo-blue siders would pop out of the woodwork like some red-siders in this thread have.

Villain side DOES need some work. There is no denying that. But making the IDIOTIC, IRRATIONAL, BASELESS accusation that the devs hate the red side will not get anything done.

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The reason I would have a problem is that they have proven that they can release content for both sides at the same time.

I don’t care if it has a red slant, and that all costumes are shared

Really, all we need to do is continue to give all new powers, costumes and Power Customization (had to throw that in) to both sides, and I don’t think any one blue side would complain about a new red TF or zone, I never do them any way, so I know I wouldn’t

The big problem I had with I7 was the time it took, and the addition of some very good powers that were not shared. The rest I didn’t care about, but I can’t speak for every one as all of us like different things in the game.

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If it's one game with 2 factions, then an issue devoted to either side (including the red side) shouldn't cause a stir on the forums. But it did, and it would again if the devs did that.
So please, those of you that aren't for one side or the other, that know that this is one game, please tell me why that is.

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Why? People whined and complained when we got a double experience weekend, myself among them. People complained when we got wings and when we got capes, myself among them. People complained when we got Kheldians, myself not among them for a change. I wonder why that is.

The simple, and frankly unflattering answer is that people will complain about anything. If your measure of acceptance is the shitstorm that happens on the forums, then your outlook on anything should be pretty dang grim. Everything is complained about, no matter what it is. It's silly to claim nobody is for it over that.

If an Issue is devoted entirely to CoV, I won't bat an eye any more than I did over I7. It's all the same game. Believe it or not, I'm not alone in this.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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Why would the devs knowingly ignore CoV?

It doesn't make sense to me.

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Better question:

"Why would some players style the devs as "hating" and ignoring CoV?"

A much easier question to answer: look at the post results.

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I agree. My question was poised to those who think the Devs do ignore or hate CoV. Notice how those whom are objective and intelligent pointed out there is no such thing. The players who dictate their opinions as fact chose to ignore the question since they do not have a worthy response.

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Maybe this is why NC is hiring alot more people for the game? To bring more to the table for villains? Hey we can dream you know!

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I sincerely hope that NC's aquisition brings more to the table to even out content for each faction. We can, indeed, dream.

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If it's one game with 2 factions, then an issue devoted to either side (including the red side) shouldn't cause a stir on the forums.

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That's odd - new horde content causes a stir on alliance side replete with gripes. New alliance content causes a stir on horde side replete with the same.

I think this proves it's an "MMO".

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Because it can't be both ways. Either it's one game and ANY update is a good update, or it's two games that share similarities and zones and updating one side only is a bad thing.

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"If it's one game, then every player will be happy with the features of every new issue and update..."

Yeah, Nancy, that makes a huge amount of sense. It's *just* like that in other games, too - every single update is all birdsong and the pitter patter of spring rain on the daisies.

To me they would only be the same game if any of my characters, hero and villain, could enter almost every zone. That's the way it is in WoW. Ok, it's not that easy, you might have to kill guards or slip past them, but as long as you could do that there's nothing game mechanic wise keeping one faction out of any particular zone other than maybe the starting zones.

WoW is a poor example of comparison with CoX. They're the opposite as far as which zones which factions can enter. We have a few shared zones with most zones being for one faction only, while they have only a few faction only zones with most being shared. And unless or until we have that I won't consider this one game.

Blue side and red side share things, how could they not when one was built off the other. But to me that doesn't make them one and the same game.

We each have our own desires fro content.

In the past I have called for a 'signature' TF/SF and a 'non-signature' TF/SF for both heros and villans for every 5 level range.

Theres a couple of signature ones mising for villans, but both sides are missing a non-signature TF/SF for most of the game. (Yes Im auggesting CoV gets MORE form this than CoH)

(For those who dont know a signature TF/SF spawns at the top end of the level range. Non-signature TF/SF spawn more like the respec trials)

Thats a whole host of content for both sides. Add at least one TF/SF per issue according to some plan, and I can be patient.

Such a huge additon of TF/SF content would be great for me, but would not a a big game changer for BillZ. However, as long as other content was to his liking then we would both be happy. Not everything is for everyone.

An issue purely for villans would be just as daft in my mind as an issue purely for heros. Or an issue purely for level 50s, or an issue purely for level 1-10s.

Spread the love, its the best way to satisfy as many paying customers as possible.

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We have a few shared zones with most zones being for one faction only, while they have only a few faction only zones with most being shared.

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So the division between "they're the same game" and "they're seperate" is an entirely arbitrary count or percentage of shared zones?

I applaud your willingness to admit this is totally arbitrary.

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To me they would only be the same game if any of my characters, hero and villain, could enter almost every zone. That's the way it is in WoW.

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Wow is FAR more PvP-oriented than here, and that design decision supports that move.

Wouldn't really be in-line with this game's casual PvE focus, would it? Either every zone would have to be PvP-permit co-op, which would change the focus of the game entirely, or every zone woudl feature villains running by heroes yet unable to touch them. Odd.

In any case, while that's a very arbitrary feature to pick as "the defining factor" or whether or not this game is or isn't a two-faction single game, it is one point of view.

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Spread the love, its the best way to satisfy as many paying customers as possible.

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Or at least piss the least off.

my main toon is a villain, i know the game is cox, but if it is there should be more co-op stuff and hey i would love to bring my brute to the shadow shards

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my main toon is a villain, i know the game is cox, but if it is there should be more co-op stuff and hey i would love to bring my brute to the shadow shards

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Hot brute on brute action. /signed.

Look at what has happened recent with level ranged focus:

I-11 25+ content (Oroborus), plus new powersets and shinys (especialy for the highbies). Those who know what they are doing can access flashback content much earlier, but its focus is 25+.

I-10 35+ content, really not much else. Invasions were for all levels

I-9 Inventions which are basically for everyone (well anyone who fights level 4+ mobs). Rvemaped end game raids (Hami + STF)

I-8 Level 15-25 heroside focus, but Safeguards for all hero ranges. Sundry Cotume and emotes. LRSF tweak.

I-7 Level 40-50 villan focus. Mayhems for all villans. New MM, Brute and Stalker sets. Base changes, PvP changes (toggle dropping masisvely changed)

Even when there has been a clear focused level range, the Devs have done a reasonable (IMHO) job of trying to spread the love around to others outside that range. Issue 10 was probably the worst issue since Cov launch in this regard. I dont know about anyone else, but we had a player return to the SG from WoW who didn't have a level 35+ character and felt very excluded at times as we all chased the new shineys in the RWZ. (Thankfully we got him there with an alt he really liked and ran him through the LGTF to a lot of eye-popping and WOW noises)

I-11 and Oro has caused some teaming issues for sure ie log on 15 mins after most of the SG have started flashback and you cant join up, but certainly if people are running shorter arcs, well you solo for a bit, hit Wents or whatever, and hop onto the next one.

The best proof for me that this is one game and not two is the fact that you can play both for the same monthly fee.

If NCsoft treated CoH and CoV as separate games, they'd have you pay $14.99 to play each and both would have their own dev teams and separate updates.

But that's not the case.

In my view, Cryptic bungled the first (and so far only) paid expansion for CoH. It shouldn't have been billed as both a standalone and an expansion, firstly, especially in light of what we ended up getting. It shipped with more content than some expansions but far less than a full game -- and much of what is in CoV was directly lifted from CoH and plopped down into CoV with the thinnest of justifications because time and budget demanded that they use shortcuts to create a "full" experience. I think they did pretty good considering the relatively short dev cycle CoV had.

Villains should probably have been integrated into the existing game world, not shunted off into their own. The additions and changes since CoV shipped indicate the devs realize they kind of goofed so we see co-op zones (RWZ), co-op missions (save Baby New Year) or parallel versions of the (mostly) same content (Orouboros).

Anyhoo, my two cents on it.

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Villains should probably have been integrated into the existing game world, not shunted off into their own. The additions and changes since CoV shipped indicate the devs realize they kind of goofed so we see co-op zones (RWZ), co-op missions (save Baby New Year) or parallel versions of the (mostly) same content (Orouboros).

Anyhoo, my two cents on it.

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And mine as well, especially on this point.

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In my view, Cryptic bungled the first (and so far only) paid expansion for CoH. It shouldn't have been billed as both a standalone and an expansion, firstly, especially in light of what we ended up getting. It shipped with more content than some expansions but far less than a full game

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IMHO this is the 'original sin' from which all of our current discontent flows.

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Villains should probably have been integrated into the existing game world, not shunted off into their own. The additions and changes since CoV shipped indicate the devs realize they kind of goofed so we see co-op zones (RWZ), co-op missions (save Baby New Year) or parallel versions of the (mostly) same content (Orouboros).
Anyhoo, my two cents on it.

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And mine as well, especially on this point.

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I would have to agree with this. Maybe then we would have ended up with a more believable, realistic world, rather than Mad Max meets Darth Vader. Plus, PvP aside, it would make sense. Not quite sure how it would work technically, though.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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Issue 12 heroes will get some cool content and fixes. Villains will get Double XP weekend. Can't Wait.

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I know you were trying to be inflammatory, but this isn't a terrible idea. Want more players villain side? Have a CoV only double xp weekend. I don't play villains much, but you know what? That would make we want to play over that side for the whole weekend. Sure not everyone will stay after the weekend, but there's an excellent chance some of the people playing for that weekend would stay full time to keep playing this cool new Villain they just made.

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Terra, would you support that additions from this point on that left the current "blue side" exactly as is while updating only red side?

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I don't know about Terra, but I'd say no. Even though I'm predominantly a red-sider.

Mostly because then psycho/irrational/emo-blue siders would pop out of the woodwork like some red-siders in this thread have.

Villain side DOES need some work. There is no denying that. But making the IDIOTIC, IRRATIONAL, BASELESS accusation that the devs hate the red side will not get anything done.

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I'll take Bill's answer on this. And yes there are plenty of angsty emo blue siders as well.

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Villains should probably have been integrated into the existing game world, not shunted off into their own. The additions and changes since CoV shipped indicate the devs realize they kind of goofed so we see co-op zones (RWZ), co-op missions (save Baby New Year) or parallel versions of the (mostly) same content (Orouboros).

Anyhoo, my two cents on it.

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And mine as well, especially on this point.

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Creole_Ned is dead on with these points.