Why do the devs hate COV?
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2008-01-06 17:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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CoV needs about 8 new zones covering all levels from probably 10 onwards. The new zones should have no links to the Destined One storyline and be more focussed on some of the other mysteries around the Rogue Isles or some alternate storylines.
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I can get behind this. Not that many Zones, but the get away from the Destined One, and more to the point, an Arachnos mindset. I like Arachnos, but it would be refreshing to work for other organizations, or day I say it, be villainous in your own right.
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Plus, I don't see how seeing the opposing faction run by and not being able to touch them is any different than both sides attending a party in Pocket D or teaming in a shared zone. Odd.
[/ QUOTE ][*] [u]Pocket D[u]
Pocket D exists because DJ Zero wills it to exist, and he might as well be a demigod - you can't fight, because he won't let you ... and yes, he is that bad-[censored], all by himself.
[*] [u]Rikti War Zone[u]
The RWZ is a war zone, and subject to military law under the jurisdiction of the Vanguard and thus, Lady Grey. She has personally declared all convictions and arrest warrants for super-Villains to be suspended, so long as they are cooperating with Vanguard in repulsing the Rikti threat to Earth.
...
There's why it's not immersion-breaking to happen there. OTOH, in the middle of Talos Island? My villains all have dozens of warrants out for their arrest!! Some of them have "shoot first, ask questions later" kill-on-sight orders, even!
*runs across Pax in Talos*
*tries to spam duel requests in order to arrest him*
*gives up and launches into protest emotes*
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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*runs across Pax in Talos*
*tries to spam duel requests in order to arrest him*
*gives up and launches into protest emotes*
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*wonders how a hero got into his Mayhem, shrugs, decides he doesn't care, and goes back to levelling the entire instance ... to the last cardboard box*
Given all the arena bugs, it wouldn't be the first time...
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
I actually think the devs love CoV better, the whole game is more streamlined, with less zoning, no "war walls", and all the zones are pre built with "Hazard" areas. Blue side needs a little more love, I would love to see an over arcing storyline to CoH where you are an actual longbow operative hero. This update would include new contacts and maybe one new zone, the whole thing could end up being really *epic*.
P.S. I hope Villain EAT's are better than Hero EAT's which are "meh" imo
I ask this mostly out of curiousity... has anyone bothered to take a look at Big_Snake's posting history? On the Guardian boards he has a somewhat poor reputation of being needlessly inflammatory.
*shrug*
Villain-only content? Go for it. Throw me a few new costume pieces for my heroes (like some updated shoulderpads that don't involve skulls, maybe? Yeesh), maybe a badge or two to satiate the beast, and I'm golden, blueside. I'd love to see an alternate levelling path redside.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
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If I wanted to know what was up with the PPP's, I'd make a thread to ask about it that didn't try to accuse the Devs of any wrongdoing or dishonesty. I don't care if people feel it's justified, coming off like you're blaming them for something or misattributing behavior to them is an easy way to get them to ignore your topic.
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Ahem.
The thread linked above was started a year or more ago. It started out without any accusations on the part of the devs. It was asking a question. To this date there have been ZERO red name replies.
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Um... why is the first reply to that thread
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You don't call out the devs.
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It got pinned at least. The devs are probably reading it, but I would guess they haven't commented because they're still figuring out what they can do about the PPP's.
And lets not forget that outside of PvP, the Patron Pools are actually liked by some.
Myself being one of them, and a few SG mates are even bigger advocates that I am.
That voice is consitently shouted down in threads discussing it. Much as folks who thought ED may of had merit where shouted down in the threads pre-I6.
Discussion on Patron pools have become very one sided because of this.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Interestingly enough, check out what Castle had to say just yesterday.
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...Sometimes, I don't have the time to do full fledged "Let's see what the community wants" deals. I'd go so far as to say that's the majority of the time. In those cases, having a place to go to read what players are discussing and garner ideas on what they'd like to see is handy.
These threads easily get heated at times, and their length can reach brobdingnagian proportions, making getting anything useful difficult, but quite often great ideas emerge from them.
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And lets not forget that outside of PvP, the Patron Pools are actually liked by some.
Myself being one of them, and a few SG mates are even bigger advocates that I am.
That voice is consitently shouted down in threads discussing it. Much as folks who thought ED may of had merit where shouted down in the threads pre-I6.
Discussion on Patron pools have become very one sided because of this.
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They have some good points, but 3 of the 4 powers in every PPP is the same.
Scrapper: FA, AoE knockdown, and conserve power, OR hold, AoE KB, and AoE Imoble OR web 'nade, caltrops, and AoE damage (With a ST ranged attack being the same)
Brutes: What pet do I want?
(This post might have something to do with finding out that my brute can't use GW's hold 
)
I like the PPP's.
They allow me to choose more powers from my primary and secondary.
And really thats different to Hero APPS how ?
Single target blast
AOE blast
in all
Dark
then has hold and an AOE immbo (with damage)
Weapons has a ST immob and an AOE slow (both with -fly and -jump)
Body has conserve power/FA
Blasters are even more alike
Toggle armour (well Body armour isn't toggle)
Couple of control type powers.
Then another damaging attack.
Force mastery being an odd outlier here again.
Most of the APPs for a set are very simialr, and differ mainly in thematics.
Its the odd one out that is the root cause of lot of the issues. (FA, Conserve power, Power build up etc)
PPS need a tweak in my mind (some numbers are clearly off), but not a whole scale reworking.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
So add the oddballs as a 5th and 6th power to each PPP.
If a tank and scrapper can get FA/CP, so should my brute and/or stalker be able to get them.
Let our corruptors run around herding their own spawns like blasters can.
Seriously, it's one or the other. Either give the overpowered powers to the villains to balance against the heroes, or nerf those powers down to levels on par with the PPPs.
Be well, people of CoH.
Balancing the epic pools because of outlier powers like FA is kind of like balancing melee sets because of powers like ET - very sticky. Do you buff the underperformers or nerf the outliers? Will the sets lose their "flavor?" And how do the changes affect the big picture? PVE? PVP?
I know which I would rather see done, and its not adding overpowered outliers to villans for sure.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
As the % of problem powers is small compared to the normal level of APP/PPP powers, the answer seems to be obvious.
Here's an example:
I love my new sm/wp brute. He's a lotta fun. But I don't feel that my Accuracy is good enough, and that's with 2acc SOs in each attack. So what can I, as a brute, do to fix that?
Well, I can take two powers to get me to tactics.
3 slotted with cytoskeletons (for the tohit buff and endred) and I'll have a power that costs .2EPS and buffs my tohit by ~11%.
A scrapper or tank can take Focused accuracy by itself, not needing to waste a power slot, put 3 cytos in it and have a power that costs .6EPS and buffs tohit by 31.2%. 3X the end cost and buff as tactics.
I'd happily pay the extra end costs on my brute to be able to ignore SO slotted Super Reflexes entirely.
But look at the extra end cost!!! Well, scrappers and tanks taking FocAcc also get Conserve Power, which has no equivalent at all villain side.
I don't see the devs giving Villain meleers access to FA and CP. Yes, it would be the fair thing to do, but I don't think it would be the right thing to do. In the end, though, it might be what they HAVE to do.
Can you imagine the uproar if they decided to remove Body Mastery or even nerf it?
Be well, people of CoH.
I was here for the GDN and ED nerfs. I can imagine it. I suspect it'd be less than the uproar over those two, but more than the uproar over the nerfing of Fire Imps and Controller Epic damage.
Pretty much.
FA should never have been more than twice as effective as tactics in the first place. Id have gone for a little over tactics (maybe 1.5times) at similar cost.
IIRC as a comparison the pool armours with S/L resists are about 1.7-1.8 times the resistance of tough. (I have to check that and dont have mids here, so please correct if I am wrong)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Another thing I just thought of... two of the Brute secondaries, Energy Aura and Electric Armor, already have Conserve Power. (Stalkers also have it in their version of Energy Aura.) I think that alone would kill any chance of seeing Conserve Power in the melee villain PPP's.
Kinda like complaining controllers get click mez protection in one epic pool.
Last time I checked Doms get it at level 1.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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So add the oddballs as a 5th and 6th power to each PPP.
If a tank and scrapper can get FA/CP, so should my brute and/or stalker be able to get them.
Let our corruptors run around herding their own spawns like blasters can.
Seriously, it's one or the other. Either give the overpowered powers to the villains to balance against the heroes, or nerf those powers down to levels on par with the PPPs.
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No argument with giving Villains access to FA, but CP exists in Energy and Electric Armor (as someone mentions above) and so it cannot be part of a Villain melee PPP.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Kinda like complaining controllers get click mez protection in one epic pool.
Last time I checked Doms get it at level 1.
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But they didn't before it was added to domination.
Which would be a fine workaround for brutes and FA. Give fury scaling +tohit as it already gives scaling +damage.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Kinda like complaining controllers get click mez protection in one epic pool.
Last time I checked Doms get it at level 1.
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Yeah, I have heard complaints about Blasters getting tweaked before Stalkers, but Dominators got tweaked before Blasters did.
(Though, to be fair, Dominators were designed around an inherent while Blasters were not.)
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Reason being they don't have the answers. So how can they reply?
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I'm sure they have plenty of answers, you won't see them posted though. You have to remember that when PPPs were concieved and added Jack was still in charge of the game, so basically things had to conform to the way he liked them.
Ever since Positron has taken over the game has slowly but surely taken a turn for the better content wise, both in quality and it has been delivered in a much more reasonable time frame. There is no reason to not believe that Villaincentric content and game fixes will happen under the new NC Soft leadership and the huge boost in resources that the Devs are getting.
I think the PPPs need to be re examined and they need to have the option of being respeced. I also think that new Villain only story arc content and zones need to be added. I also think that this new content can and should be developed at the same time that new hero only or Co Op content is developed so that every player regardless of faction preference gets a big piece of the pie. If the Devs cannot deliver this after hireing 19 new people and spending all that money they will have failed us players. We just need to have patience and give them the time to do thier magic.
~MR
AE Arc: 305214 Blood Diamonds (Villainous)
Unleashed/Unchained/B.O.S.S.