Why do the devs hate COV?

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Pretty much.
FA should never have been more than twice as effective as tactics in the first place. Id have gone for a little over tactics (maybe 1.5times) at similar cost.

IIRC as a comparison the pool armours with S/L resists are about 1.7-1.8 times the resistance of tough. (I have to check that and dont have mids here, so please correct if I am wrong)

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Focused Accuracy was intended to be Targeting Drone. In fact, I have a PM from Castle where he confirms that it was supposed to be the same Scale to-hit buff.

However, that's still pretty darn high at 18.5%.

The problem is that Targeting Drone isn't bad for Blasters because Blasters have a .075 Melee to-hit modifier. That makes it 13.875% for them. Tankers and Scrappers have a .1 modifier.

But the problem with this power is that there is simply no problem with it in PvE. None. It's broken in PvP and PvP alone. Thus for the devs to nerf it they would have to acknowledge that they are nerfing a power in PvE solely and completely for PvP.

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I ask this mostly out of curiousity... has anyone bothered to take a look at Big_Snake's posting history? On the Guardian boards he has a somewhat poor reputation of being needlessly inflammatory.


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No need. If you look at his last 3 posts in this very thread it is obvious that he is unhappy that it is a real discussion and trying to derail it.... Heh poor snake.

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And lets not forget that outside of PvP, the Patron Pools are actually liked by some.

Myself being one of them, and a few SG mates are even bigger advocates that I am.

That voice is consitently shouted down in threads discussing it. Much as folks who thought ED may of had merit where shouted down in the threads pre-I6.

Discussion on Patron pools have become very one sided because of this.

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I actively prefer the Patron Power Pools to the APP's on the hero side. I really wish I could ditch the APP's and get either the patron powers or something similar on the hero side.

So no not everyone hates/loathes/detests etc. the patron power pools, just some.

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Pretty much.
FA should never have been more than twice as effective as tactics in the first place. Id have gone for a little over tactics (maybe 1.5times) at similar cost.

IIRC as a comparison the pool armours with S/L resists are about 1.7-1.8 times the resistance of tough. (I have to check that and dont have mids here, so please correct if I am wrong)

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Focused Accuracy was intended to be Targeting Drone. In fact, I have a PM from Castle where he confirms that it was supposed to be the same Scale to-hit buff.

However, that's still pretty darn high at 18.5%.

The problem is that Targeting Drone isn't bad for Blasters because Blasters have a .075 Melee to-hit modifier. That makes it 13.875% for them. Tankers and Scrappers have a .1 modifier.

But the problem with this power is that there is simply no problem with it in PvE. None. It's broken in PvP and PvP alone. Thus for the devs to nerf it they would have to acknowledge that they are nerfing a power in PvE solely and completely for PvP.

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How badly is maximum strength FA needed in PVE, though? I can only think of a handful of situations where you'd really need it, most of them involve pushing to the edge of the purple patch and/or fighting very strong AVs such as Fake Posi, Mako in the STF, etc.

I have never taken FA so cant really comment.

Heck these days I dont even pop GEAS for Mako.

IOs have such a heavy emphasis on acc in sets generally, then global acc bonuses ontop. Its just not necessary for FA to be so high.

I wouldn't be adverse to some scaling +tohit in Fury as long as its kept in decent bounds.

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That's easy to do on a market that sees 200 of something in moderate demand available on average.

Less so hero side, where there are 1,200 of that same something for sale.

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And yet I see things like Demonic Blood Sample selling for no less than 10 times the price that is average on the villainside, even though the heroside has 10 times the supply but only twice the demand. And this wasn't a spike, it was that for an entire week. When spikes occur on the villainside, they go back to normal much quicker.

And at least stuff sells at a decently faster rate. I never have arcane rares sitting in my auction window for days even though they're priced the same as all the others that have sold recently.

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CoV needs about 8 new zones covering all levels from probably 10 onwards. The new zones should have no links to the Destined One storyline and be more focussed on some of the other mysteries around the Rogue Isles or some alternate storylines.

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I can get behind this. Not that many Zones, but the get away from the Destined One, and more to the point, an Arachnos mindset. I like Arachnos, but it would be refreshing to work for other organizations, or day I say it, be villainous in your own right.

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While its a good idea and I'd enjoy playing that way, I honestly think its too late in the development cycle of the current game to diverge that completely from the existing story. I would very much like to see this direction be pursued in CoX 2, however.

You never know though, maybe the devs will prove me wrong and the i11.5 QoL improvement will be a non-Arachnos story progression for redside

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And lets not forget that outside of PvP, the Patron Pools are actually liked by some.

Myself being one of them, and a few SG mates are even bigger advocates that I am.

That voice is consitently shouted down in threads discussing it. Much as folks who thought ED may of had merit where shouted down in the threads pre-I6.

Discussion on Patron pools have become very one sided because of this.



I actively prefer the Patron Power Pools to the APP's on the hero side. I really wish I could ditch the APP's and get either the patron powers or something similar on the hero side.

So no not everyone hates/loathes/detests etc. the patron power pools, just some.

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While I wouldn't go as far as to say I like Patron pools better than Epics, I will note that Patron pools aren't BAD in and of themselves. Not from where I'm standing, anyway. Yeah, sure, they lack Focused Accuracy and Conserve Power, but then I never considered Epics to be game-shaping, either. Truth be told, Patron pools are good, but NOT at the exception of Epics.

Where the Patron powerpools fail for me is in the fact that they are so conceptually restricted. No matter what your powers are and which Patron you take, the powers they give are always obviously given to you by them. No-body gave my Scrapper Caltrops, say, but even on my Necro/Dark Mastermind, Ghost Widow's pastel "dark" blasts are obviously foreign, given to me by an in-game NPC. It really does restrict all my concepts into following the railroading storyline - if I'm not a lackey to Arachnos, then at least I'm working for them so heavily as to have part of my powers be theirs in origin.

I received an official response in my thread on the subject to the effect of "Well, you don't have to take them." And I agree, but it's just a bit irritating to get NO new powers to choose from post 40 and to have to scour the regular pools for powers that even remotely fit my concept.

And that's before we even consider that the Patron powers are visually unique, meaning there's no way to pretend they're somehow powers that are naturally yours. With Epics, you can pretty much claim that you suddenly learned to shoot fire out of your hands, and if you picked a Fire powerset to begin with, that looks perfectly natural. It's not quite as easy to claim you suddenly sprouted an Arachnos issue black mace that shoots Wolf Spider signature ammunition. "Then say you stole it" was a sentiment I've heard a lot of, but it's still a workaround to what is visibly an esoteric ability to just about any character short of an Electric Brute with Mu Mastery.

I will say a few words on Patron pools being all the same in terms of stats and mechanics. The developers decided to award these in such a way that the system didn't allow us to switch them. Can't give up badges is the last explanation I heard, but whatever the real explanation may be, the net result is we can't switch between them. With that in mind, if they were made different, people would inevitably perceive some as stronger than others. And if people find out about it after they've picked one, then believe you me, they will be pretty pissed off. It's one thing to pick a pool that ends up sucking - that you can respec out of eventually. It's quite another to pick a Patron pool you can't respec out of, because you are stuck with it quite literally forever and ever. You cannot change Patrons once you choose, so to avert disaster, all the Patron pools HAD to be made as close to identical as they could be. That way people don't feel cheated, or AS cheated, in the end. All the other Patrons are the same, practically, so as long as you have one that works for your concept, you should be good.

In my opinion, and I've said this many times, the developers dug themselves into a hole. By putting Patron powers in before they had the tech to change them, they had to make them all the same. Now that they've made them all the same, if they ever DO add tech to respec out of your Patron, then they can't add new Patron pools that are different, because you'd have four identical ones and one different. I sincerely hope it's been a lesson of doing things right even if they have to be delayed. Doing things now and wrong tends to produce not just flawed content right now, but also interfere with content added in the future, as the problems only grow in magnitude.

As a matter of fact, I suspect that may be a part of why any villain Epic ATs are taking so long - better to make an AT that's going to work right and give us as much mileage as it can, than to slap something together and then spend the next two years brainstorming ways to clear up the mess.

In general, I don't dislike the Patron pools, or the idea itself, that of taking powers from a fictional patron. What I do dislike, however, is Patrons at the expense of Epics. I'd really have liked to be able to give Fossilize and Stalagmites to my Stone/Stone Brute, or a Mek Man energy blast to my Energy/Energy Brute, but I can't. And that bugs me.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I'd personally love to take on a few missions where you become a member of the freakshow.

Or assist the Circle of Thorns in bringing ruin to the Banished, in Dark Astoria.

Or assisting a couple 5th Column in helping start the fall of the Council on Striga.

Making my way over into Paragon, let in through Crey to work for Crey's intrests.


Lots of things that Villains could do. My loyalty is not with Recluse at all, and giving us a change of scenery would work very well in my eyes. It could even open up the door for more shared content, something I don't have a problem with.

Reputation? I'm here posting how it is. Reputation on an online game? DUMB. Now let's continue...

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Reason being they don't have the answers. So how can they reply?

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Well, Big, they can either keep quiet and have you rant about them "hating" CoV and "not having answers" or they can open up about their intentions and listen to yet more mindless rants about how stupid their choices are. It's a lose/lose scenario. Gamers are never happy, and even if one is it means 20 more aren't.

I'm stunned they've been as open as they have been. Mind you, I'm far from surprised that it's rarely acknowledged - the most open dev communities are raked over the coals by everyone not getting *their* answer on a regular basis, just as you're doing now.

I'd flesh it out and say the #1 reason for not giving in to the demands of wee gamers is that the result would not only see the exact same complaints existing, but it would couple them with complaints about the now-visible decisions and, worst of all, it would mean *any* future change in the discussed decisions would render former communication a "lie" and the current choice a "betrayal".

Say whatrcha want about gamers - they're predictable.

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If I wanted to know what was up with the PPP's, I'd make a thread to ask about it that didn't try to accuse the Devs of any wrongdoing or dishonesty. I don't care if people feel it's justified, coming off like you're blaming them for something or misattributing behavior to them is an easy way to get them to ignore your topic.

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Ahem.
The thread linked above was started a year or more ago. It started out without any accusations on the part of the devs. It was asking a question. To this date there have been ZERO red name replies.

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I thought Posi or Castle already stated at some point that they felt they were fine for now?

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Reputation? I'm here posting how it is. Reputation on an online game? DUMB. Now let's continue...

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You're not in an online game, lil' scrapper, you're in a discussion forum trying to get your perception heard about a feature in an online game. Presentation ties into that.

Thanks for clearing that up oh mighty one. If you call this raked over the coals, you've had a very easy life. These are issues that NEED to be addressed. Hell even a simple reply if "we are really looking into these matters" hell anything. Instead of the if you "don't like it dont do it, or don't take it" attitude.

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I'd personally love to take on a few missions where you become a member of the freakshow.

Or assist the Circle of Thorns in bringing ruin to the Banished, in Dark Astoria.

Or assisting a couple 5th Column in helping start the fall of the Council on Striga.

Making my way over into Paragon, let in through Crey to work for Crey's intrests.


Lots of things that Villains could do. My loyalty is not with Recluse at all, and giving us a change of scenery would work very well in my eyes. It could even open up the door for more shared content, something I don't have a problem with.

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If I remember right, the original plan for CoV was to let you join one of several different villain groups. I think they said there were 3. I always assumed it would be the Council, the Circle of Thorns, and Arachnos.

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I thought Posi or Castle already stated at some point that they felt they were fine for now?

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Any comment like that I've never seen. The closest thing to a PPP response, in recent times, was Castle being asked about certain issues for villains in PvP, with PPP's, Fury, and other things cited. The response was something along the lines of "We are aware of PvP FotM builds."

I think there could be more communication between the players and certain encompassing issues for both sides of the game, but I won't press it. They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

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Here's to Issue 13!

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Thanks for clearing that up oh mighty one.

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No problem, mate. There are a lot of people on the forum unaware how presenting their point of view as a tantrum conflicts with getting their point across - you won't be the last to get confused!

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These are issues that NEED to be addressed.

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Every gamer has those.

I have no basic problem with the PPPs. I DO have the standard complaints (can't respec 'em, no variety, etc.) As for story wise, they could just as easily be stolen/copied from the patrons. In the case of Hell Hound, Mako didn't give me the powers, I beat the crap out of him and took 'em. :P

And looking at the EPPs, they do seem to have more variety, thus, more good powers. As a brute, I pretty much had my choice of colors for ranged attacks and a pet. Whoopdee doo. But it's the final power that interests me the most. After all, that's SUPPOSED to be the "powerful" one. The one we have to dedicate three powers to get to. For nearly every class, they seem useful. I DO like having my pet around as a Brute.

But Blasters.... Wow. Let's see, they get a quick heal, a self rez, an AOE nuke, a massive ranged attack, or (and this is my favorite) Unstoppable. Corrupters and Dominators (the Villain side ranged damage classes) get their choice of.... a summon, a summon, a summon, or if they REALLY want it.. a summon.

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I have no basic problem with the PPPs. I DO have the standard complaints (can't respec 'em, no variety, etc.) As for story wise, they could just as easily be stolen/copied from the patrons. In the case of Hell Hound, Mako didn't give me the powers, I beat the crap out of him and took 'em. :P

And looking at the EPPs, they do seem to have more variety, thus, more good powers. As a brute, I pretty much had my choice of colors for ranged attacks and a pet. Whoopdee doo. But it's the final power that interests me the most. After all, that's SUPPOSED to be the "powerful" one. The one we have to dedicate three powers to get to. For nearly every class, they seem useful. I DO like having my pet around as a Brute.

But Blasters.... Wow. Let's see, they get a quick heal, a self rez, an AOE nuke, a massive ranged attack, or (and this is my favorite) Unstoppable. Corrupters and Dominators (the Villain side ranged damage classes) get their choice of.... a summon, a summon, a summon, or if they REALLY want it.. a summon.

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Blasters > Corruptors
Blasters > Dominators

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As for story wise, they could just as easily be stolen/copied from the patrons.

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Yes, but I'd rather like to see powers with which to further my own powersets and my own concepts, such that I haven't stolen from anyone. CoH-side Epics are just basically "more powers," be they mine or taken from someone else, whereas CoV-side Patrons are pretty specific. I'd like a more generic option that I can work into a concept that has nothing to do with Arachnos.

Believe me when I say this - anything that has NOTHING to do with Arachnos is, at this point, a boon to CoV

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

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Believe me when I say this - anything that has NOTHING to do with Arachnos is, at this point, a boon to CoV

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I can agree to that. A 5th patron. A non-patron pool. Hell, a SET of non-patron pools. Then those that want them can get them, and those that don't can get something else.

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But Blasters.... Wow. Let's see, they get a quick heal, a self rez, an AOE nuke, a massive ranged attack, or (and this is my favorite) Unstoppable.

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This pissed the tanker and scrapper community off pretty bad too.

As it should have. Giving Blasters Unstoppable is unforgivable.

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As it should have. Giving Blasters Unstoppable is unforgivable.

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I disagree, a scrapper with unstoppable can do some crazy [censored] as well.

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As it should have. Giving Blasters Unstoppable is unforgivable.

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I disagree, a scrapper with unstoppable can do some crazy [censored] as well.

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Scrappers have damage mitigation as their secondary. They're supposed to be able to take hits. Blasters are supposed to be the glass cannons.

Blasters getting scrapper level mitigation was a bad idea.