I understand that point of view, but respectfully disagree with it. The Eden trial has some of the most interesting maps in CoH. The Sewer trial is also a very unique experience. Despite it being "dated", it is still valid content. It'd be nice if the bugs in these trials were fixed, including the Titan-O issue. Could it perhaps give a SHOE instead for those lvl 40+?
With all do respect, that is uncool. The rewards should be a Trial Pool Recipe of your level. How hard is that to implement? It is some nice content from what I've seen. I've only done Eden once and have never even found a team willing to do the Sewer Trial. Given the difficulty of the Trials I don't think asking for a Trial Pool Recipe is too much.
Personally, I'd like it if the level ranges on both Eden and Sewers could be adjusted for level 45-50's. Although it would not be 'New' end game content, it at least would be more end game content. Right now players can zip right past both trials without even knowing they exist! That's what happened to me the first time.
=. .=
Agreed with both of them.
BTW, Tundara, if you're on Freedom, I'd be willing to try and organize a Sewer Trial with ya.
The sewer trial is a lot of fun, although it does require some coordination when you get to the bottom.
Have they fixed the lvl bug with this trial, i.e. those about the max lvl (lvl 42 from memory) aren't auto-exemplared and 'lose' the temp powers when they click on them?
Yeah, I'm sorry Lighthouse, but there's just too much of this. Priorites are good. I submit, however, that there are some problems with Cryptic's.
Not revamping old zones like, say, Perez Park? Annoying, but understandable. While it may be dated and not very useful, it's not really directly harmful in any way.
Leaving bug-ridden and useless something a team of eight people are going to spend several hours on? Not reasonable. Especially since, in the scheme of things, actually addressing these concerns should not be more than a few man days of effort unless Cryptic's tools are really outrageously inefficent.
I have not known anyone to do the Sewer Trial "for real" since ED hit. The fact that it's gated to only be startable by someone in an extremely narrow level range, that it provides armies of over-level mobs with very high resistances to anyone who runs it at the "correct" level, and the fact that it doesn't autoexemplar anyone make it a complete waste of time. Every team I've experienced, always doing it for the badge, just "cheezes" their way through it with unexemplared L50s.
The Eden Trial... I don't really have much problem with except... there should not be a Giant Monster in the trial, let alone two. These critters are no longer an appropriate challenge for a team of 8. It is only reasonably manageable if you bring -regen or a very high damage team.
On the matter of the rewards, it seems like it would be extremely easy to extend the level ranges of both Titan Shards and Hydra-Os. Extend their existance table to 50 but leave them at 25% per enhancement aspect. They become interesting and accessible substitutes for dual-aspect IOs.
Again, I understand priortites, but I don't accept that certain things should be swept under the rug. Trials and Task Forces are "defining" missions in this game where so many missions are very vanilla. If any mission content needs to be made current, you need to find the time to make these current. In my opinion if you don't intend to you should remove them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
How bout giving us that bloody lvl 40 Titan-O? It'll sell for more than a regular lvl 50 SO AND since most lvl 40+ are in IOs SOs do us no good...and since we can't choose our recipes it's not like we can be promised a good rare...as there are plenty really crappy rares...
One more coal for the fire.....
Removing choices is never a good thing. First there was the "adjustment" of no longer making HOs from level 45 -47. Now the changes to these 2 trials. Not cool.
Eden is still pretty fun, but it should definitely have Titan-O's available for over 40s. Seriously, a standard SO for completing a trial of this length and difficulty is patently ridiculous from a Risk vs. Reward standpoint.
As far as the Sewer Trial....either fix it, or remove it. The Risk vs. Reward for that trial is hopelessly out of whack if you actually run it in the levels it was designed for. Ever since the Kracken nerf, the Sewer is a ghost town. I think it'd be an excellent 40 - 45 trial, in the same vein as the LGTF.
These are Trials. They should get the appropriate award (ie a Rare Recipe drop). To not implement this smacks more of laziness than prioritizing content in my opinion.
I agree with the posters above. If these Trials aren't going to be updated, then they should just be removed.
I hope this is taken in the spirit that is intended (constructive criticism, not being a smart [censored]), but when you close your posts with: [ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your understanding and continued support!
[/ QUOTE ] prior to getting feedback, it seems a bit condescending.
I'm sure it isn't intended as such, but it smacks of trying to shut us up BEFORE considering the feedback from the playerbase. It's a rhetorical device that makes me cringe whenever I read it at the end of your posts because it presumes we understand and support what you've posted without you having actually taken the time to read and consider what we've posted.
And from the feedback above, it's pretty clear so far that the playerbase (to this point) neither supports nor understands the reasoning behind such a decision.
[ QUOTE ]
However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with this. I don't care about the rewards, but this statement stood out. I beleive a lot of people want the devs to work with and update dated content... Infact if there was a poll I am almost sure the revamping dated content may win. I know I for one want old bugs fixed, old content up to date with the new content, and the dreaded CoP that was there to hype up CoV... yet to disapear into the shadows and covered up by mounts of paper work to be later forgotten about. So... how about we stop these 'quick fixes' and get with good fixes.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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Lol, thought I would keep quiet and not cause trouble. Sent a PM with similar sentiment to posts above.
Part of the current problem with the trials is that for eden a player within a specific level niche is needed to get things started, and the Sewer trial's auto-exemping problems make it a laughable challenge if you have a bunch of 50s and only exemp them down long enough for them to get the anti-hydra guns.
Either of these issues can either make the trials hard to start (Eden) or not worth the effort due to the potential for zero risk (sewer). Both of these problems, I am certain, have made it so that a lot of players probably have not experienced this content, and it's sort of sad that it may be left to wither away in favor of new content.
Considering that both these trials were once "end-game" content, maybe they should have their difficulty revised, rewards adjusted, and level caps upgraded to 45+ so they can once again fulfill their originally intended end-game role.
OK, gang.<ul type="square">
[*]The Devs have gotten lots of feedback on this already in numerous threads, so this isn't condescending to thanks for feedback. This is an announcement, not a request for feedback. In fact, this was announced earlier, look at the date of the patch note. It was discussed on the board then.
[*]Setting levels of rewards seems to have coding difficulties. When they try to close one loophole another appears. That's why HOs and SHOEs are hardwired to be only level 50 now. And so, no, you can't get a SHOE or HO reward from these trials/tfs. And you're going to have to live with a level 40 Titian-O if you're the right level. However, consider that....
[*]A Titan-O is a horrible reward. In my opinion. Even if at level 42 you got a level 45 Titan-O (that's +3 to you), you would outlevel it at level 49 and be forced to discard it. With the xp and other rewards of this tf/trial, you can easily buy a high level multi-aspect IO which won't ever be outleveled.
[*]No "Giant Monsters" here. Just Monsters. They're AV ranked foes. A team of 8 couldn't beat a Giant Monster unless its HPs were severely crippled.
[*]Rare Recipe Drops: I know for sure that the Eden Trial does give the choice of a rare recipe. I'm not sure though if it's a Trial Pool... it should be. If it isn't, bug it. Does anyone who's done the Sewer Trial recently know if there's a rare recipe option at the end? And if yes, if it's a Trial Pool?[/list]
Now, for Lighthouse: <ul type="square">
[*]Actually, don't know why the Sewer Trial was lumped into this announcement. The patch note had nothing to do with the Sewer Trial. Why was it mentioned?
[*]I'm kinda siding with some of the flak with regard to letting 'legacy missions' go unretouched. The devs beefed up Faultline and the RCS and got rave reviews. Positron admits the Positron TF is flawed and need revamping 'someday.' Do you guys really want a bunch of legacy missions and TFs cluttering up the ladder of advancement for new toons with klunky and kludgy design? I'd be happy if a whole new zone gets bumped back an issue if you spend one whole update revamping and cleaning up the problems in the legacy missions and TFs.[/list]
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
Rare Recipe Drops: I know for sure that the Eden Trial does give the choice of a rare recipe. I'm not sure though if it's a Trial Pool... it should be. If it isn't, bug it. Does anyone who's done the Sewer Trial recently know if there's a rare recipe option at the end? And if yes, if it's a Trial Pool?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did bug it. I received the generic bug reply that basically said you wasted your time and we are not wasting our time replying back to you.
The recipe I received was from the overly large TF pool set at lvl 50 and not from the trial pool. I chose the eden trial because it would drop you to a lvl range to get a couple of the really hard to get recipe sets that cap at lvl 40.
heck, if i had received a trial pool recipe at lvl 50 i would not be as much upset, because it would be worth much more on the market (or hopefully useable by me) instead of a recipe that is worth more to sell to a store.
the rewards for eden and sewer trial need to be revamped.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
Add me to those disappointed. The loss of the enhancements is not a big deal to me, by the time I get to those levels I'm more interested in the full power of an SO (or now an IO). But it's the attitude of "It's old content, so we'll let it fester".
Eden is one of the best trials in the game, but it needs some developer time.
First, the bug when forming. If the captain isn't within the range, the trial is immediately disbanded. As a level 50, I can start Positron, Synapse, Transcendence, Sister Psyche, first respec, Moonbeam, Hess, Citadel, Manticore, second respec, Numina, all without problem. But if I start Eden as a captain, the team is automatically disbanded.
Second, although this may be fixed, there have been problems with people falling through the map on entrance.
Third, the two Quarries may be Monsters, but they're not expected to be single team opponents. I've been on Eden trials that couldn't defeat the quarries and had to lure them into a hole, but had no real problem with the rest of the trial and had no problem at all with the Crystal Titan.
You WERE willing to go into them to close off earning XP from the lichen (and as usual, the solution wasn't to limit the number of spawns, but just say "OK, risk but zero rewards). But all these other problems have been left untouched.
I know the new stuff is sexy, the new stuff is fun. But I'm disappointed in this announcement, and the recent statement that nothing is going to be done about the Positron TF any time soon.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
If i'm not mistaken, Eden/Sewer were moved to TF's instead of Trials. So you will get the TF drops not Trial drops.
[ QUOTE ]
The Devs have gotten lots of feedback on this already in numerous threads, so this isn't condescending to thanks for feedback. This is an announcement, not a request for feedback. In fact, this was announced earlier, look at the date of the patch note. It was discussed on the board then.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it was not. This announcement suggests more than just the management of the reward aspect. It suggests that the Trials themselves are not up for review. Previous threads discussed the change to the reward.
[ QUOTE ]
No "Giant Monsters" here. Just Monsters. They're AV ranked foes. A team of 8 couldn't beat a Giant Monster unless its HPs were severely crippled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Guess what? I have been on multiple Eden teams that have had to disband because they did not have -regen. One of these were teams was a Tanker, Two Scrappers, a Blaster and two Illusion Controllers. None had -DR or -regen. That's a problem. The two Quarries are harder to defeat than the Crystal Titan.
[ QUOTE ]
Rare Recipe Drops: I know for sure that the Eden Trial does give the choice of a rare recipe. I'm not sure though if it's a Trial Pool... it should be. If it isn't, bug it. Does anyone who's done the Sewer Trial recently know if there's a rare recipe option at the end? And if yes, if it's a Trial Pool?
[/ QUOTE ]
Task Force Pool. This was an explicit change.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, don't know why the Sewer Trial was lumped into this announcement. The patch note had nothing to do with the Sewer Trial. Why was it mentioned?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hydra-Os are the same deal as with Titan-Os.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
I'm kinda siding with some of the flak with regard to letting 'legacy missions' go unretouched. The devs beefed up Faultline and the RCS and got rave reviews. Positron admits the Positron TF is flawed and need revamping 'someday.' Do you guys really want a bunch of legacy missions and TFs cluttering up the ladder of advancement for new toons with klunky and kludgy design? I'd be happy if a whole new zone gets bumped back an issue if you spend one whole update revamping and cleaning up the problems in the legacy missions and TFs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said. Personally I agree.
Brutes are built to kick @$�, not to save that of yours - Double Electro
My DeviantArt | RobotSouls.com
[ QUOTE ]
If i'm not mistaken, Eden/Sewer were moved to TF's instead of Trials. So you will get the TF drops not Trial drops.
[/ QUOTE ]
Got a lv40 Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal when I did the Sewer Trial tonight. So whatever drop pool that's in, there ya go.
[ QUOTE ]
However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Count me in as disappointed by this. 
[ QUOTE ]
However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. Really you can't just abandon existing content. Can it really be that much work to update the reward tables appropriately?
The Eden and Sewer trials are (IMO) still some of the best content in the game and if they aren't being played much it is certainly worth your while spending some time working out why [edit] and fixing the issue! nat!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If i'm not mistaken, Eden/Sewer were moved to TF's instead of Trials. So you will get the TF drops not Trial drops.
[/ QUOTE ]
Got a lv40 Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal when I did the Sewer Trial tonight. So whatever drop pool that's in, there ya go.
[/ QUOTE ]
tf pool
these are trial pool
* Aegis: End/Rech/Res
* Decimation: Acc/Dam/Rech
* Devastation: Acc/Dam/Rech
* Luck of the Gambler: Def/End/Rech
* Mako's Bite: Acc/End/Rech
* Numina's Convalescence: End/Heal/Rech
* Sovereign Right: Acc/Dam/End
* Sting of the Manticore: Dam/Int/Rech
* Touch of Death: Dam/End/Rech
* Unspeakable Terror: Fear/Range
Decimation and Touch of Death top out at 40, which is why the eden trial is perfect to try and earn them there.
guess you will ahve to use the respec trial over and over, and then only with a toon in at the right level range since those recipes top out at lvl 40...
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
Lighthouse --
When doing something like this, how about fixing the problems with the Eden TRIAL first.
1) The Eden TRIAL does not give a Pool D TRIAL recipe. It gives a standard Pool C. Right now the only way to get a Pool D TRIAL recipe is the Respec Trial on the hero side.
2) The Eden trial can not be started by someone beyond the level range.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
[ QUOTE ]
Lighthouse --
When doing something like this, how about fixing the problems with the Eden TRIAL first.
1) The Eden TRIAL does not give a Pool D TRIAL recipe. It gives a standard Pool C. Right now the only way to get a Pool D TRIAL recipe is the Respec Trial on the hero side.
2) The Eden trial can not be started by someone beyond the level range.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the reason those trials give pool c instead of pool d is because it would not be fair to villains. Heroes would have at least 5 ways to get their pool D drops, while villains would only have 3. Until the lack of content redside is fixed this will probably stay that way.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Included in the update to the game on August 14th, we made the following change:
<ul type="square">[*] Characters over level 40 cannot select the Multi-enhancement from the Eden Trial. Added SO Enhancements to the Eden trial choice dialog box.[/list]You can read the complete changes on the Patch Notes Page.
I bring this up because there has been some confusion and concern about the change. First a bit of history.
For those of you who've been with us since the very start, you may recall that the original level cap for the game was 40. As such, the Eden and Sewer Trial were some of the "end game" content at that time. They were designed to be a real challenge for level 40 characters and included some pretty nifty rewards (at that time) in the way of the Titan-O enhancements.
To address the difficulty of these missions, we adjusted them to allow characters of a higher level than 40 to go in. However, since the Titan-O's were never made for higher than level 40's, if people chose them on the reward table, well oops! the server wouldn't give them anything!
To correct this issue, we disallowed the choosing of the Titan-O's for anyone over level 40 and added SO's into the reward table (a quick fix). In our minds, the Titan-O's and SO's are only there to fill out the reward table, when in all likelihood, the rare recipe option is the most valuable in today's game.
We understand the concerns our customers have about these rewards. Certainly we would all like to see this content as interesting and rewarding as possible. However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
Thanks for your understanding and continued support!
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.