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However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
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The problem with this is that, if you are adding new members all the time as the numbers suggest, it's ALL new content to them. And your primary "end-game content" remains rolling up a new alt where you go through all the old content.
Nobody is expecting you to go through every old mission and update it. But this attitude of (paraphasing you) "it's old so it doesn't matter if it sucks" is very bad for the health of the game.
And if that's not what you meant by what I quoted...that's how it sounds.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Maybe it's just me but I love the timed aspect of the Trials over the grind that is a TF/SF.
I agree with a bunch of others; delay a "new" zone for an issue if it means updating these (and throwing us villains a Trial other than the Respec) and other bugs.
Add me to the list of those upset by this.
I've managed to make it into the Eden trial once and only once. It was incredible! To allow this to remain in its current, hard to use mess is a tragic mistake.
I'd like to comment on the sewer trial, but alas I can not. I know about five people that have done it, but nobody else wants to touch it and now I know why.
I'd like to see the rewards fixed, but I'd also like to see these Trials fixed so they're easier to access.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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OK, gang.<ul type="square">
[*]The Devs have gotten lots of feedback on this already in numerous threads, so this isn't condescending to thanks for feedback. This is an announcement, not a request for feedback. In fact, this was announced earlier, look at the date of the patch note. It was discussed on the board then.
[*]Setting levels of rewards seems to have coding difficulties. When they try to close one loophole another appears. That's why HOs and SHOEs are hardwired to be only level 50 now. And so, no, you can't get a SHOE or HO reward from these trials/tfs. And you're going to have to live with a level 40 Titian-O if you're the right level. However, consider that....
[*]A Titan-O is a horrible reward. In my opinion. Even if at level 42 you got a level 45 Titan-O (that's +3 to you), you would outlevel it at level 49 and be forced to discard it. With the xp and other rewards of this tf/trial, you can easily buy a high level multi-aspect IO which won't ever be outleveled.
[*]No "Giant Monsters" here. Just Monsters. They're AV ranked foes. A team of 8 couldn't beat a Giant Monster unless its HPs were severely crippled.
[*]Rare Recipe Drops: I know for sure that the Eden Trial does give the choice of a rare recipe. I'm not sure though if it's a Trial Pool... it should be. If it isn't, bug it. Does anyone who's done the Sewer Trial recently know if there's a rare recipe option at the end? And if yes, if it's a Trial Pool?[/list]
Now, for Lighthouse: <ul type="square">
[*]Actually, don't know why the Sewer Trial was lumped into this announcement. The patch note had nothing to do with the Sewer Trial. Why was it mentioned?
[*]I'm kinda siding with some of the flak with regard to letting 'legacy missions' go unretouched. The devs beefed up Faultline and the RCS and got rave reviews. Positron admits the Positron TF is flawed and need revamping 'someday.' Do you guys really want a bunch of legacy missions and TFs cluttering up the ladder of advancement for new toons with klunky and kludgy design? I'd be happy if a whole new zone gets bumped back an issue if you spend one whole update revamping and cleaning up the problems in the legacy missions and TFs.[/list]
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A voice of reason and broader perspective. Totally agree with this post and particularly with your final points to Lighthouse.
Faultline revamp was an absolutely stunning improvement, as was the RWZ. Although, I am soooo ready to dope slap Fusionette every time I see her (the Jar Jar Binks of CoH) and Doc Delilah is THE WORST PET EVER
I'd gladly pass on invasions and other such new concepts, as cool as they look 
, for improvements and new content in the existing "gimped" zones: Perez Park, Boomtown and Galaxy City.
I personally still really enjoy the Eden Trial as is. I find no problem with having to customize the team a bit to make it work. Seems to me most Trials require some team tweaking to make things work. As long as it's not a requirement for there to be a Rad or Kin defender on every team, I'm cool with it as is.
It sounds like the Sewer Trial is a mess. I avoid it after a horrible debt-cap experience a long time ago, so I'm fine with whatever's done to it until it is completely rebuilt. I consider it a minor inconvenience compared to the pleasure of having new zones and revamped zones to explore.
eden and sewers trials are the best trial/Tf in the game
just give us a nice Reward for doin it instead of narrowing the choices 
(here's an idea : change rarity of the recipes to make rare what's really rare ^^ and send crappy recipes in the unusual recipes box then we're gonna choose the rare recipe every time )
Not to forget the fact that the trials in the game are often harder than the States TF.
The Eden trial is rarely ever a cakewalk, especially since the GDN and ED were installed. Why even bother offering an SO when that is no way a proper reward for that thing? (Though personally the Quartermain TF ought to give a SHOE.... but that is a different story)
I really wish the devs would go and look back at the trials, and maybe add another. I feel they are some of the best content in the game due to the difficulty and unique story in well made levels. Too bad the level range to start is so small, and many of the new players aren't even aware they exist.
Frankly, a Titan-O/Hydra-O is almost completely worthless these days. There are recipes that are far better and take much less investment and you won't even outlevel them. Given the risk of the trial I wish the devs would bump Titan-Os and Hydra-Os up to Hammy-O level effectiveness. I'm not seeing where this would severely unbalance the game or anything (in fact given the recipes available to a level 40), but it would make the rewards not completely worthless.
I like the Eden trial. The Sewer trial got bumped up a little past what I think is reasonable (even the tentacles are tough these days), but that's ok because it's really designed for expert players. The thing I don't like is that there really is no proportionate reward for the risk. It's really hard to get a team together for an Eden or Sewer trial anymore because you know you're going to get a lot of debt and not much XP and not much else. Eden is easier because at least the Titan is still worth a lot of XP, but the Sewer trial is dead to most of the population.
None of this bodes well for the things in the game now that aren't working properly and need to be addressed. I don't really need to name them, most people have stated a few already, and I'm sure everyone has their list. So does this mean that going forward theres going to be a statue of limitations on game content being deemed fixable? Like after a year or so of having not addressed a major concern or bug that the devs are aware of, we might as well give up all hope that it'll ever be fixed?
On another note, I often wonder just how many times the devs post news and info that they're unhappy about, but either can't or are afraid to say their true feelings about, in fear of their bosses(a.k.a States and Posi) coming down on them for it. In other words, how often to they just take the corporate "be a team player" attitude when posting info to us about things they either don't plan on changing, or are supposedly, "working as intended".
[ QUOTE ]
However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
[/ QUOTE ]
This attitude towards "dated" content is the fundamental problem! Just a few weeks ago I got a friend of mine to sign up to CoH for the first time. The sewer and eden trials certainly aren't "dated" for him! Even if he had signed up a year ago he'd probably only now be getting in the lvl 40 range (being a pretty casual player) so it still wouldn't be "dated".
/unsigned.
The Eden and Sewer Trials are some of the best/most unique content in CoH. They are fun and have some interesting an unique maps. Instead of eliminating a portion of the reward, I would rather see the Devs take the time to fix and update the Trials.
Cyclone Jack
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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The Eden and Sewer Trials are some of the best/most unique content in CoH. They are fun and have some interesting an unique maps. Instead of eliminating a portion of the reward, I would rather see the Devs take the time to fix and update the Trials.
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QFE
I've done the Sewer trial twice and the Eden trial once (all pre-recipes) and I found them to be some of the most unique and enjoyable content in the game. I'll add my vote to the "fix/update these" pile with a side order of "add something like these to CoV."
I appreciate that doing that takes time and resources, I11 feature set is locked at this point (maybe even I12, I don't know), there are things that you want to get done in advancing the story line (which I AM a big fan of), etc. Still, it'd be nice to know that these are things that are being worked on instead of brushed under the rug.
Slug.
I'm with the general consensus. I don't really care about missing the TO or HO reward, but I'd like to see some of these older trials and task forces revamped. It seems like to me that now would be a perfect time to revamp the sewer trial because of the renewed presence of the Rikti in our little universe.
I'd love to see the low level Cavern of Transcendence Trial revamped (I've never done it, but no one ever seems interested.) I'd also like to see Positron's TF revamped, and of course, all of the shadow shard tf's shortened.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
I really enjoy the Eden trial. I picked the Titain O on purpose -- to have as a keepsake for the event. I did the same thing with the Sewer Trial.
Game Makers seem to always fall into the the "new content over fixes" routine. They forget that their customers will still be running the old content before and after the new content is released.
I agree with others. Take an issue off and fix the bugs. Revamp the Eden and Sewer trials to be level 50 events. Personally, I would recommend for every 3rd issue, to take a moment to reflect back on old content. If things are fine then continue on. If not, then consider a Review/Revamp/Fix issue instead.
Look at the Hamidon encounter again. Most will never run this when you can run any other TF/Trial in the game and get more rewards for far less risk, and far less team resources needed. The need to have multiple groups for this event should justify multiple rewards. Let us have multiple Recipes, or multiple HOs, maybe one of HO and one Recipe.
Revamp/Review the Shadow Shard. Few ever go their and the Task Forces are overly long. Dr Quarterfield TF, has multiple missions that could be eliminated simply because they are identical to next mission.
Lighthouse, it may seem that we're jumping on you, but I hope it's clear that these comments come because we like the old content.
And it doesn't need to take the sort of work involved in, say, revamping Faultline or the Rikti Crash Site. Eden's biggest problems are some bugs, and taking a look at those two Quarries, and somewhat the issue of the rewards. As great as a fully new Positron TF would be...a simple edit to reduce the number of missions and reduce the travel time would make a world of difference. Shadow Shard, same thing.
There's great stuff in the old content that needs a little attention.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Nope, don't like this one bit. No-siree-bob. How about let's fix the stuff that has gone on too long being broken BEFORE we add new exciting features to the game. I liked the game just fine as it was, I would gladly turn in the invention system and RWZ for more bug fixes. I think the Eden Trial and Sewer Trials are the fewer great experiences in this game. How about fixing them for all of us who enjoy it. Thank you for listening.
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/unsigned.
The Eden and Sewer Trials are some of the best/most unique content in CoH. They are fun and have some interesting an unique maps. Instead of eliminating a portion of the reward, I would rather see the Devs take the time to fix and update the Trials.
Cyclone Jack
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Gents, I'm not saying we will never take the time to revisit this, or other, existing content. I'm just giving you the down low on what the current status is. We know you want everything and it can be hard to understand why we aren't doing something when the reason is not visible to you. We have a lot working behind the scenes and know that you will appreciate it when it does come to fruition.
The Eden and Sewer Trial aren't killing anyone currently They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from. Like anything in life, there is always room for improvement. Lets not get too down on them. Thanks.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
They aren't doable without someone of their natural levels to start it, though. They're the only content a group of 50s can't auto-exemp and do.
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
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They aren't doable without someone of their natural levels to start it, though. They're the only content a group of 50s can't auto-exemp and do.
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That's the core of what most of us are saying. These Trials have some severe aspects that are broken. They are bugs that need to be looked at.
That and we need some Trial/SF additions to the red-side.
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They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from.
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it gives a tf recipe, not a trial recipe. 
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
Thanks, Lighthouse. But I hope you understand (and take back) how important fixing the problems with that older content is. Can we expect to have eight people enter the main mission in the Eden and assume nobody's going to drop into black nothingness until they hit bottom anytime in the forseeable future?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
[ QUOTE ]
The Eden and Sewer Trial aren't killing anyone currently They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from. Like anything in life, there is always room for improvement. Lets not get too down on them. Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated before, you have to have someone in that level range to even start it and it also only gives TF recipes... instead of you know... trial recipe... Till then, I guess we should call it the Sewer Task Force and Eden Task Force. Would be more fitting.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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The Eden and Sewer Trial aren't killing anyone currently They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from. Like anything in life, there is always room for improvement. Lets not get too down on them. Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
As stated before, you have to have someone in that level range to even start it and it also only gives TF recipes... instead of you know... trial recipe... Till then, I guess we should call it the Sewer Task Force and Eden Task Force. Would be more fitting.
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And at that point, you're just leading to even more confusion about what classifies as a Trial and what classifies as a TF. (Trials being failable, with either a clock or the "protect the reactor" bit for the respecs, while TF's can't be failed in the normal sense. They can be disbanded, of course, but not "failed".)
@Death Conqueror
-Goal for 2011: Survive, stay alive, and continue to thrive.
Hm. Forgot about the failable aspect.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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[ QUOTE ]
Gents, I'm not saying we will never take the time to revisit this, or other, existing content. I'm just giving you the down low on what the current status is. We know you want everything and it can be hard to understand why we aren't doing something when the reason is not visible to you. We have a lot working behind the scenes and know that you will appreciate it when it does come to fruition.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want EVERYTHING... Just most of it.
That joke having been said, however, here's a reminder: With new Powersets come new characters. As you add in new Powersets, you'll have people going back to the old content again, and it would be nice if it works properly. Don't wait too long before going back to deal with this stuff, okay?
By the way, I like the Positron TF as is. It's like a young hero's first taste of the downsides of being a hero.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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Lighthouse --
When doing something like this, how about fixing the problems with the Eden TRIAL first.
1) The Eden TRIAL does not give a Pool D TRIAL recipe. It gives a standard Pool C. Right now the only way to get a Pool D TRIAL recipe is the Respec Trial on the hero side.
2) The Eden trial can not be started by someone beyond the level range.
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I think the reason those trials give pool c instead of pool d is because it would not be fair to villains. Heroes would have at least 5 ways to get their pool D drops, while villains would only have 3. Until the lack of content redside is fixed this will probably stay that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heroes also have many more task forces than Villains do. Should the Shadow Shard Task Forces not give rare recipes at all?
Heroes have many more zones than villains have. Should salvage and recipes not be awarded in certain zones?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout