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By the way, I like the Positron TF as is. It's like a young hero's first taste of the downsides of being a hero.
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Finally someone is sharing my opinion about that 
Thanks lighthouse 
tell the devs they're doin a great job and if they can do something about these trials (eden and sewers) in the next issue (maybe I12, i assume I11 is already ready ^^), it would be GREAT
[50 content - SHOE - bug fixes]
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/unsigned.
The Eden and Sewer Trials are some of the best/most unique content in CoH. They are fun and have some interesting an unique maps. Instead of eliminating a portion of the reward, I would rather see the Devs take the time to fix and update the Trials.
Cyclone Jack
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Gents, I'm not saying we will never take the time to revisit this, or other, existing content. I'm just giving you the down low on what the current status is. We know you want everything and it can be hard to understand why we aren't doing something when the reason is not visible to you. We have a lot working behind the scenes and know that you will appreciate it when it does come to fruition.
The Eden and Sewer Trial aren't killing anyone currently They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from. Like anything in life, there is always room for improvement. Lets not get too down on them. Thanks.
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For the Eden trial I agree completely.
The Sewer trial... it's not a trial. It's a long-[censored] timed mission.
Anyway, good points House of Light. Add these two 'trials' to the QoL issues list though will ya
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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We know you want everything and it can be hard to understand why we aren't doing something when the reason is not visible to you. We have a lot working behind the scenes and know that you will appreciate it when it does come to fruition.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lighthouse, from what I have read so far I think the player base is trying to tell you that , Yeah, we sure will love all the new stuff your working on now but we are willing to wait a little longer for it so you can put some people on the task of fixing these trials properly.
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Exactly.
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For those of you who've been with us since the very start, you may recall that the original level cap for the game was 40. As such, the Eden and Sewer Trial were some of the "end game" content at that time. They were designed to be a real challenge for level 40 characters and included some pretty nifty rewards (at that time) in the way of the Titan-O enhancements.
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That would be nice if it were true. The Eden and Sewer trials were added in issue one, when the level cap was raised to 50 from 40. Before that there was just Hamidon (who was bumped to 50). The rewards weren't a 'pretty nifty' reward because they were rapidly outleveled and any that you had were quickly replaced with SOs from Ghost Falcon. And you only needed to do his mission once. Maybe if they were good for 5 levels like HOs were claimed to be at one point they could have lasted a little while, but as they were they were mainly a speed bump in your slotting plans if you even considered them.
People did the sewer trial for the ridiculous XP from the krakens until that got nerfed, and I rarely see it even mentioned anymore (aside from someone mentioning that they've never done it, or haven't in years). Eden, on the other hand, is run because it's a nicely done and not that long.
Now that we have IOs, the hydra/titan enhancements are woefully underpowered anyway. Since they're didn't get the magnitude buff that HOs did early on (HOs got buffed up to their 150% SO level before getting nerfed back down to SO level), they're in most ways inferior to a decent set recipe.
Unless you're looking for a buff/debuff enhancement, a dam/rng, or are planing on stacking multiple copies (unfeasable because of how many runs that would take, you'd outlevel them in no time); you could instead saunter on down to your local Wentworths, and bid a couple thousand influence on a uncommon set recipe that would do the same thing and craft it.
I won't get into the debate about the skewed view the devs seem to have on the risk/reward occasion, but I will bring up that the rewards for the 'trials' need an examination. As it stands, the only reward worth choosing from them (+3 recharge SO? Sign me up!) is the recipe, which drops from the TF pool. I would suggest having them drop from the Trial pool (so I could have an alternative to the half hour nap that is the reactor core, or the 'only 25 other people feel like it' Hami raid) but that pool has to few recipes in it already. Since I doubt we'll ever see a better balance between the bloated TF pool and the slim Trial pool, I would suggest making Titan/Hydra O's be made immune to level scaling like IOs, buffed up in their percentages, or had some other unique effect attached to them. Because as they are right now, there's litle reason to choose one when you complete the trial other than the 'ooooooo shiny' factor.
I remember near the end of CoH beta when Statemen posted a screenshot of a heroine looking at the hydra, and said that it was the first of the 'Elder Trials' that would make up the CoH endgame. Since then the only 'trials' we've had added are the Eden, Sewer, and the Respec. The respec has been nerfed into a state of near-comatose boredom for anyone that has a halfway decent build, and the other two are up for discussion here. I really wish they could be brought up to a level other than 'sure, I've 2 hours to kill and don't mind not getting any XP'.
Formerly Fx_10
It's like someone taped two ninjas together to make a giant ninja!
Founder of Team Awesome!
Official Justice Chairperson of Awesomeness
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The Sewer trial... it's not a trial. It's a long-[censored] timed mission.
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Sewer trial:
Step 1: Have someone in the level range talk to the contact.
Step 2: Defeat a large number of mobs in a trial zone.
Step 3: Go into timed mission where you will probably die if you don't know what you're doing or misstep (fall of a plank, land on hydra or kraken or rikti). You will fail if you don't pick up certain goodies (particle beams) along the way.
Eden trial:
Step 1: Have someone in the level range talk to the contact (because you'll get disbanded if you don't).
Step 2: Defeat a large number of mobs in a trial zone.
Step 3: Go into timed mission where you will probably die if you don't know what you're doing or misstep (jump into -travel swarms and fall in acid, or get swarmed on the way to points of interest). You will fail if you don't pick up certain goodies (ambrosia) along the way.
They seem remarkably similar when viewed like this.
Formerly Fx_10
It's like someone taped two ninjas together to make a giant ninja!
Founder of Team Awesome!
Official Justice Chairperson of Awesomeness
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They are still do-able content and have the additional reward of the rare recipe for anyone running them to choose from. Like anything in life, there is always room for improvement. Lets not get too down on them. Thanks.
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Eden Trial is great, but I tried the Sewer Trial once, and even after we gave up doing it properly and swapped sks/exemps (not enough 50s to do all of us) we still couldn't finish it in time.
Would it be possible just to bump the timer up some on that? The 4 hour timer on Eden is more than enough, but 90 minutes on one where you have fast respawning AV shield generators with really tough guards is, well, let me say I haven't encountered anyone whose done it successfully at appropriate level since the "mezz to bring down the shields" bug in it was fixed. I'm sure its been done by custom teams or elite sgs, but I've not talked to anyone involved.
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I really enjoy the Eden trial. I picked the Titain O on purpose -- to have as a keepsake for the event. I did the same thing with the Sewer Trial.
Game Makers seem to always fall into the the "new content over fixes" routine. They forget that their customers will still be running the old content before and after the new content is released.
I agree with others. Take an issue off and fix the bugs. Revamp the Eden and Sewer trials to be level 50 events. Personally, I would recommend for every 3rd issue, to take a moment to reflect back on old content. If things are fine then continue on. If not, then consider a Review/Revamp/Fix issue instead.
Look at the Hamidon encounter again. Most will never run this when you can run any other TF/Trial in the game and get more rewards for far less risk, and far less team resources needed. The need to have multiple groups for this event should justify multiple rewards. Let us have multiple Recipes, or multiple HOs, maybe one of HO and one Recipe.
Revamp/Review the Shadow Shard. Few ever go their and the Task Forces are overly long. Dr Quarterfield TF, has multiple missions that could be eliminated simply because they are identical to next mission.
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/signed
This is a good idea. No, a great idea.
I've been around since shortly after launch (with only a brief period of downtime around issue 5-6), and I have yet to do a Sewer Trial, and have only gotten to do Eden once -- but I remember it fondly as one of the coolest mission arcs in the game.
Old content should be routinely reviewed. Have we not, since Issue 1, been encouraged to start over and explore it all? How much of it is worth exploring at this point? Updates should be almost as important as new content.
Proud Member of Jagged Legion
you see me now a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
behind the clock back there you know at the 4 winds bar
a drug by the name of world without end
I only live to be reborn again
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However, we hope everyone can appreciate the history behind this older content and also appreciate that, in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
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Lets see what else is older content :
Arena...bugged since before my time.
CoP Trial...bugged for almost 2 years.
IoP/Base raids...non existent for almost 2 years.
Bases - bugs with being kicked/robo surgery unit/borked editor/interface...screwed for almost 2 years.
Why don't you fix your OBLIGATIONS first, such as delivering advertised features like CoP and Raids before piling on more.
Finally, you are essentially sending the message that bugged content made today and tomorrow may also very well be ignored in the future with your business approach. Wonderful.
The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.
The sewer trial is probably the most fun trial/TF I have ever done in CoX. It is a shame that it is bugged and is annoying to get started.
They should make this a lvl 50 trial, no autoexemp, and let us do it as our "real" characters with all of our powers.
Skipping a chunk of this to make a few comments and suggestions.
1. I've done the Eden trial several times, usually after outlevelling it. I've gotten ONE Titan-O, and yes that was while (FINALLY!) getting to run it while in range. And it... became useless fast, as I outlevelled it.
Solution?
- Get rid of all the Special-Os as they sit now. These are special, unique items... make them like IOs and have them *not expire.*
Alternately:
- Have them reward a "token" that you can exchange for one your-level non-unique IO (so, multiaspect, sure, but not, say, Numina's Regen/Recovery.) Make it selectable, yes.
2. The trials are fun, but need some work. The Hollows trial also comes to mind with the eight-character requirement. (Drop that to six.) Eden is *outstanding* but nobody really introduces it. The sewer trial? ... is broken.
- What can I give as a solution other than "The problems are known, please fix them?" These can be a *blast,* but need to get the auto-exemplar code in or something, for starters.
3. Don't hide the trials. And introduce more, at other levels, as well as on villainside.
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The sewer trial is probably the most fun trial/TF I have ever done in CoX. It is a shame that it is bugged and is annoying to get started.
They should make this a lvl 50 trial, no autoexemp, and let us do it as our "real" characters with all of our powers.
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I have to chime in. This is the only trial in the game that, in my experience, you had a real chance of failing because the timer ran out. And this was in the old days of Pre-I5, Pre-ED charactrers. I liked the challenge a lot.
I should be evident given that if it was hard in the old days of demigods and it's never been changed, it's probably a bit too much now if you do it "legit". Combine that with a reward you can get anywhere else and it's no wonder people just "cheat" through it for the badge.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Skipping a chunk of this to make a few comments and suggestions.
1. I've done the Eden trial several times, usually after outlevelling it. I've gotten ONE Titan-O, and yes that was while (FINALLY!) getting to run it while in range. And it... became useless fast, as I outlevelled it.
Solution?
- Get rid of all the Special-Os as they sit now. These are special, unique items... make them like IOs and have them *not expire.*
Alternately:
- Have them reward a "token" that you can exchange for one your-level non-unique IO (so, multiaspect, sure, but not, say, Numina's Regen/Recovery.) Make it selectable, yes.
2. The trials are fun, but need some work. The Hollows trial also comes to mind with the eight-character requirement. (Drop that to six.) Eden is *outstanding* but nobody really introduces it. The sewer trial? ... is broken.
- What can I give as a solution other than "The problems are known, please fix them?" These can be a *blast,* but need to get the auto-exemplar code in or something, for starters.
3. Don't hide the trials. And introduce more, at other levels, as well as on villainside.
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agreed, I mean /shocked
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A Titan-O is a horrible reward. In my opinion. Even if at level 42 you got a level 45 Titan-O (that's +3 to you), you would outlevel it at level 49 and be forced to discard it. With the xp and other rewards of this tf/trial, you can easily buy a high level multi-aspect IO which won't ever be outleveled.
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You can respec (which many probably do anyway) between 45-49 and get that Titan-O back and then sell it on the CH for much more than any SO and even more than several rare recipes...
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No "Giant Monsters" here. Just Monsters. They're AV ranked foes. A team of 8 couldn't beat a Giant Monster unless its HPs were severely crippled.
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You realize this statement isn't accurate right? We've all seen it...hell theres a video of someone soloing Jurrasik on youtube using their powers and some Shivans...
There are still tons of bugs and QoL issues that people have been complaining about for months, years in some cases. I'd die of happiness if they gave us revamped old content and QoL/Bug fixes as an entire issues in and of itself...especially after I-11 since we'll have 2 new (if mediocre) powersets to toy with...
1. Eden is EASY once you get the hang of it. It's not a difficult trial in any way, shape, or form.
2. Can't beat the Giant monsters? As someone said: Shivans. You'd fully double the size of your team with Shivans, going from 8 to 16, and shivans do massive dmg. The fact that people don't have shivans prove they are not taking advantage of their toons. That's a Player fault, not a Dev fault.
3. Even before Shivans, it was pretty easy to defeat the GM's, EXCEPT for that short period where the Enemy Regen rate was at Wolverine type levels. It took reds, Scrappers, and non Empathy buffs.
4. If you can't defeat the GM's, dump them in the holes. You're playing a hero game. You realize that not every villain can be outright beaten in EVERY game, right? Some require finesse.
5. Making it so that Eden handed out a SHO/HO as the trial stands now, would be the quickest way to PO'ing every villain on the block. A competent team can run Eden in an hour and a half with the right leadership and attitude. Personaly, I'm leaning to under an hour and a half if they were all experts, but most folks on Champion that I know wont run Eden so I can't test this.
6. Despite all that stated above: Eden is one of the reasons I came back to the game. I love this trial. I've run it 3 times in a day, and double digits in a week. This trial is insanely cool, with awesome graphics, terrifying effects, upwards of 4,000 DE(not counting the swarms and lichens) Special 1 hit kill boss attacks, and heroes to rescue. If you have never run it, or only run it once, by all means PLEASE run it! Run it more! Enjoy it, thrill in the moment of the concept behind descent into the bowels of the earth, combatting the Devouring Earth in their own den before the Hamidon can absorb the strength of the elemental heroes and became all-powerful.
The problems with the trial amount to the rareness of the ambrosia WHICH, btw, for being so ABSOLUTLY important is not touched on nearly enough in the instruction or storyline. It shold not take clearing 1 1/2 - 2 bridges to get just enough ambrosia to successfully complete the trial(unless we're talking about increasing the reward). 1 Bridge, 1 full set of ambrosia.
It shouldn't take so long to clear out the final room. Which MAY still attack you if you assault the Titan first, but MAY not(What happened there, Dev's? Does the room aggro or not? My last run through it started to aggro, then just kind of... lost intrest)
The heroes are morons. We've got Flower knight in Outbreak, Jarvis or w/e in Breakout, shivans, generic pets, all these other people who follow you and chase after bad guys, but these four heroes who should be just RAGING against the DE for imprisonment, torture, etc, just sitting idly by, drinking Earl Grey tea and discussing the precipitation from the New York Times. FIX THAT. Copy Paste the AI from Flower Knight to the four worthless lumps and you'd easily speed up the time inside the final room. >>>Copy Paste<<< (Yeah, it's me, the guy from the Comicon)
Fix the level-o-meter so you can properly start the trial with a level 50. This WAS on the Dev to-do list several issues ago, what happened? All the man hours spent on creating this masterpiece are being counted as NOTHING when you could spend what, 8 more hours and copy paste working trial code from any other TF contact as well as the PET IQ code from any other pet? All that and fix the trial? Remember what I said at the Comicon, and what other people have said in this thread alone: Not fixing BASIC fixes like these are slaps in the face to your LOYAL customers. Not counting the FOTM Flash-in-the-pans who show up, PL to 50 and walk out the door.
You did make a valid point at the Comicon when you(Lighthouse) said roughly "We have only so many Dev's". Kudos. But the fixes to this Trial are nothing but copy/paste functions(like turning Tornado graphics into Whirlwind). It's a simple matter of giving one guy a to-do list and the 8 hours it takes to copy-paste, implement, test, and throw in the Test server patch.
The above folks would NOT find it so hard to run Eden(Sewers not my cup of tea) because MORE players would willingly play it if the percieved DIFFICULTY wasn't there in starting it/running it. Make the trial availible to everyone and I gurantee you you'll find that the ludicrous amounts of INF/Prestige given off this trial will have SG's running it weekly if not more.
In summary: Eden isn't OLD. Eden just needs the gate unlocked so everyone can get in. It's not horribly broken, it just needs the doorknob screwed back on. And, imo, oughta give out TRIAL level Recipes, not Generic TF stuff. Villains are not as bad off as my HO/SHO statement implies(Cap trial and LRSF in under 45 minutes). Let the people know you care, let the powerful people into the trial, and those other problems like GM's will disappear like leaves in the wind.
Eden hints: Bring shivans. They are simple to get. Bring Reds(not R-A-ds), bring preferably 2 somethings with -RES(believe or not but storm is ACTUALLY useful again, and in THIS trial. I unretired my storm/elec after 18 months) Use slows on the Walls to prevent mob spawns from stacking up. fire/ice tanks rejoice. Burn all reds on the first wall. Burn all yellows, save only 1 blue per person(at 41, everyone should have their end problems pretty much covered). Save all reds gotten on bridges for mold wall. Finally, when attacking both walls, always stand WAYYY back and send the tanker/scrapper up ALONE. Walls will only spawn 3 mobs then the rest of the team bum rushes the wall IMMIEDIATLY. You'll have about 60 seconds from the time the first spawn appears to the second is summoned. Holds help, -Rechrg(the crey pistol) also help. If you are still having trouble, send me a PM. Cheers!
"IF You see a Tanker Taunting you STOP IMMIEDIATLY. Everybody knows... if the Tanker has to come and get you, he's bringing a Butt Kicking with 'em."
Super Shotty Mario Bros.
Champion
I agree 100% with the above post. I would run this trial more, with zip for a reward, if it was UNLOCKABLE without the 'correct level' player holding the star.
Fix it already. It's 2007. For the love of Statesman's baby, please!
We the players shouldn't have to leave a character in stasis in this level range just to start this trial for our friends as a "fix" because the devs "haven't got the time".
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Yes simply put your priorities are moronic. Whoever thought it was more important to introduce "flashback", so you can go back and experience missed content, before you fix/updated the current content has no business creating a video games.
Actually, flashback should fix this problem with eden and sewers. Two birds with one stone. If this is so..works for me
Icey-Hott - Lvl 50 Ice/Fire Tank-Champion
Icey Hott - Lvl 50 Ice/Fire Blaster-Liberty
Dream-Weaver - Lvl 50 Ill/Kin Controller-Liberty
Star of the Show - Lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank-Champion
William Tell Lvl 50 Arch/MM Blst-Champion
Still like to see them fixed in the "mainstream".
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ][*]A Titan-O is a horrible reward. In my opinion. Even if at level 42 you got a level 45 Titan-O (that's +3 to you), you would outlevel it at level 49 and be forced to discard it. With the xp and other rewards of this tf/trial, you can easily buy a high level multi-aspect IO which won't ever be outleveled.
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Amazingly, you fail to notice that you outlined exactly the PERFECT solution to the Hydra & Titan O problem: change them to be like IOs. Constant +25 multi-aspect L40 monster-Os that could be slotted in nearly any power are easily equal to L45+ Set IOs.
For the Sewer trial...most peeps who run it successfully seem to do so with exemped alts....
whats the maximum level mobs will spawn at for the sewer trial...?
41? 45?
42
There may or not be significance to this.
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
and 50s auto exemp to - 42?
Nope. There is no auto exemplaring. 50s stay 50.
The trick is that you have to be level 41 or below to actually get the guns needed to kill the hydra. So a single 41 can exemplar everyone one at a time as they click the glowies to get the guns. The 50s wipe up all the mobs and you are done in about 30 mins or so. Pretty easy recipe.
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
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in the larger scheme of things, we have our designers working hard to bring out exciting new content in a timely manner and not spending too much time optimizing the experience of dated content.
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Here is the crux of the matter. The leadership is instructing the designers to focus on new material, not on older content that needs fixing/updated.
Perhaps you should consider setting aside a 'task force' of designers to focus on a list of broken/older content that has high player appeal, starting with the TF's and Trials? As another poster pointed out, this would probably win high marks in a player poll.
Is it harder to go back and fix up older content than it is to create fresh content? If it is, then I can understand the desire to create fresh content as also a way of making the job easier. However if not, then give your designers a 'break' and let them work up some fixes for older stuff. You could just do a few at a time; no need to sweep every broken thing into a fix. Start with these two trials if you like and move to the TFs and other things a few at a time.
As you can see from the responses here, your player base will thank you!
-Sandolphan
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
[ QUOTE ]
We know you want everything and it can be hard to understand why we aren't doing something when the reason is not visible to you. We have a lot working behind the scenes and know that you will appreciate it when it does come to fruition.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lighthouse, from what I have read so far I think the player base is trying to tell you that , Yeah, we sure will love all the new stuff your working on now but we are willing to wait a little longer for it so you can put some people on the task of fixing these trials properly.