[Unique IOs] IO effects with a duration? Ick...!!
By
2hawks,
Posted on: 2007-03-01 10:22 in The Market and Inventions
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Castle, what are the current unique enhancers if you don't mind us asking?
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Can't say yet! I can say that the list is in flux and may change during testing.
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changing.....???
in flux...???
/e thowing planning papers across the room
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Don't be. I'd expect a flux capacitor or two to be involved. Why else do you think they brought the Professor in? We're talking 88 mph, gigawatts of power and flux capacitors...
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You fool! You'll kill us all! It's JIGGAWATTS, not gigawatts!
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Nit pick: "giga" is pronounced "jigga"
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Double nit pick: In the script for Back To The Future it's spelled "jigowatts" because Robert Zemeckis is a [censored].
Hence, the joke.
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Your "Obscure Movie Lore" is very good!
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Castle, what are the current unique enhancers if you don't mind us asking?
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Can't say yet! I can say that the list is in flux and may change during testing.
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changing.....???
in flux...???
/e thowing planning papers across the room
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Don't be. I'd expect a flux capacitor or two to be involved. Why else do you think they brought the Professor in? We're talking 88 mph, gigawatts of power and flux capacitors...
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But I want an Illudiom Pew36 Explosive Space Modulator!
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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But I want an Illudiom Pew36 Explosive Space Modulator!
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To blow up the Earth?.... Nice hat
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I think most people's visions of their characters is something in between "I'm from outer space and punch things" and "I evade sixty-two point seven percent of the punches thrown at me." Its often a "I envision my character being able to stand toe to toe with her opponents and hit them way more often than she gets hit back" sort of thing.
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Yeah, that's in-between, but I think it's closer to the former than it is to things like Marathon, Forever Young, Offender, all-passive Invuln, or "Man" builds.
I'd love to have different words for the two approaches to clarify things. It's one thing to slot tons of end reducers and take Stamina because you are playing Zenon the Everlasting, it's another to build "a toon" around the most efficient use of endurance possible. What's the difference? The latter one is built with specific attention to the game mechanics, while the former may be built by a casual gamer that 4 slots endurance reducers because "every little bit helps", not knowing any better.
You might find this to be a subtle and unimportant distinction. I don't, because I've played with both types of people, and their views of the game are diametrically opposed.
I just wanted to point that out, since you were using Marathon builds as your example of "concept" when you said, "Honestly: the devs original design for this game was not to encourage building for concept." I think that the game's original design *was* intended to encourage building for concept, but a different type of concept than you were putting forth. They just failed. I think they believed that their text descriptions of powers would be enough to have people know whether they wanted them or not.
I suppose that's really a nitpick, though, because in the end, if they fix things for one type of concept so they don't need to pay attention to the numbers, they fix things for the other type too.
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I remember reading once a long time ago where Buffy (of the Scrapper/Tanker guides) said that her original vision was a Buffy (the Vampire Slayer) like character, which sounded Reflex-like. But in retrospect, her vision was actually more Invuln-like when she saw how the sets played. That's a case of the numbers and mechanics not connecting with the mental concept, which has nothing directly to do with mechanics, but much more visual/conceptual (but perhaps less abstract) character vision.
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Buffy is a great example of someone outside of CoH canon for whom CoH Invulnerability's mechanics work. She dodges a lot, she can take hits, and has some self-healing ability. I think the set should have been called Mind over Body or something like that, and there should have been an all Res/Maxhealth set called Invulnerability. But I think you know that already.
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While not quite on the topic of your post, your thread title makes this a good spot to talk about this.
Most of the Unique Enhancements offer completely new effects to a power they are slotted into. In the Edict of the Master example, your summon power now effectively gives you a 'click' version of Leadership/Maneuvers that only applies to your pets. That's a pretty good bonus, in my opinion.
Now, let's talk about why it has a duration. Since these are enhancements, the system only knows about them when you use the power they are slotted into. Once used, the effects of those powers hang around until their duration ends. If they are slotted into a toggle, the effects are constant while the toggle is running, but end as soon as the toggle is shut off. So, slotting Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery into Rest isn't a great idea (actually, it's no longer possible, but it was a good example to use!)
So, making it a 'short term buff' wasn't an arbitrary decision. It is simply the only way to get the abilities to work in all desired cases.
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Just as an update, this information isn't entirely true any longer.
The Pet Damage enhancements which give unique effects (such as Taunt and Placate Resistance) turned out not to work well with the Mastermind code. So after a bit of work on the programming staffs part and a bit more of my time, those abilities now work 100% of the time once the enhancement is slotted. The radius limitation remains unchanged.
Cool update _Castle_
So we can slot Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery into Rest?
Or is this mastermind only?
Sorry, so many ways to read this!
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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So we can slot Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery into Rest?
Or is this mastermind only?
Sorry, so many ways to read this!
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I would guess just the mastermind, as he specified it didn't work well with the Mastermind code.
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I read that as only applying to masterminds. They wanted a nifty bonus for them and it wasn't working as a click activated effect. So they simply tied it to the slotted IO.
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I think he was joking guys.
BTW Castle, having the added effect enhancer work all the time would really be good for things like the 32/38 level defense powers whose long recharge makes using them in those powers a bad idea.
Which normally wouldn't be a problem, but you just know people are going to do it and then complain later.
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Just a little confused here. Is he saying that is one slots an IO that has res to taunt of placate it will work 100% of the time if said IO is in a passive?
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Just a little confused here. Is he saying that is one slots an IO that has res to taunt of placate it will work 100% of the time if said IO is in a passive?
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There's only one such IO currently in existence, and it buffs pets, not players, when slotted in pet casting powers. All pet casting powers are clicks, not passives or toggles. The original intent was for those buffs to buff the pets when the pet casting power was clicked, and last for a certain amount of time before expiring. Castle is saying that didn't work out too well in testing, so its being changed so that when you slot those powers into pet casting powers, you'll *always* get the buff - to your pets - instead of only getting the buff when you activate the pet casting power.
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Hmm. Well it looks like Invuln took quite an IO-beating in the last two days. DA and Regen still look pretty good though. Time to go to plan C for my Invulns on build optimization.
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What happened to Invulnerable? I don't see what changed with this information.
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Hmm. Well it looks like Invuln took quite an IO-beating in the last two days. DA and Regen still look pretty good though. Time to go to plan C for my Invulns on build optimization.
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What happened to Invulnerable? I don't see what changed with this information.
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I posted this *after* it was discovered that some IOs were marked "unique" and therefore you could only slot one of them, and *before* it was discovered that (at least for now) the Res+Def IO wasn't one of them (the smart money said it was going to be one of them).
Edit: also, the duration-based click-buff thing.
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(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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I posted this *after* it was discovered that some IOs were marked "unique" and therefore you could only slot one of them, and *before* it was discovered that (at least for now) the Res+Def IO wasn't one of them (the smart money said it was going to be one of them).
Edit: also, the duration-based click-buff thing.
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Well, invulnerability only has two click powers, and I don't think anyone is going to slot things into Unstoppable.
Dull Pain, well, sure, I can see where if you slotted all 6 of Numinia's set into it, you might be annoyed that you only get the +Regen/+Recovery for a duration while Dull Pain is active, but you can stick that into Health and only miss on on the Ranged Defense (which doesn't stack with any of Invulnerability's defenses anyway)
All the rest of the options will slot into either toggles or passives with ease.
I don't see how any of this information alters things for Invulnerability at all.
(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned. Oh well, it probably wouldn't have stacked with Tough Hide anyway.)
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While not quite on the topic of your post, your thread title makes this a good spot to talk about this.
Most of the Unique Enhancements offer completely new effects to a power they are slotted into. In the Edict of the Master example, your summon power now effectively gives you a 'click' version of Leadership/Maneuvers that only applies to your pets. That's a pretty good bonus, in my opinion.
Now, let's talk about why it has a duration. Since these are enhancements, the system only knows about them when you use the power they are slotted into. Once used, the effects of those powers hang around until their duration ends. If they are slotted into a toggle, the effects are constant while the toggle is running, but end as soon as the toggle is shut off. So, slotting Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery into Rest isn't a great idea (actually, it's no longer possible, but it was a good example to use!)
So, making it a 'short term buff' wasn't an arbitrary decision. It is simply the only way to get the abilities to work in all desired cases.
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Just as an update, this information isn't entirely true any longer.
The Pet Damage enhancements which give unique effects (such as Taunt and Placate Resistance) turned out not to work well with the Mastermind code. So after a bit of work on the programming staffs part and a bit more of my time, those abilities now work 100% of the time once the enhancement is slotted. The radius limitation remains unchanged.
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Woo!
Has the strength been reduced from what little we've been able to get ahold of, numbers-wise? I.E., that Defense bonus ... is it still 10%?
^_^
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(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned.)
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I'm guessing that happened like today.
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Castle is saying that didn't work out too well in testing, so its being changed so that when you slot those powers into pet casting powers, you'll *always* get the buff - to your pets - instead of only getting the buff when you activate the pet casting power.
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"Always" in this context meaning "as long as the pets are within the buff effect radius."
Not trying to be pedantic, just aiming for completeness of information. 
_Castle_, this is great news. Thanks for the update!
Scrap
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Castle is saying that didn't work out too well in testing, so its being changed so that when you slot those powers into pet casting powers, you'll *always* get the buff - to your pets - instead of only getting the buff when you activate the pet casting power.
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"Always" in this context meaning "as long as the pets are within the buff effect radius."
Not trying to be pedantic, just aiming for completeness of information.
_Castle_, this is great news. Thanks for the update!
Scrap
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I should have said "you'll always radiate the buff" when I said "you'll always get the buff."
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned. Oh well, it probably wouldn't have stacked with Tough Hide anyway.)
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Do we know where that information has come from? I've not seen any redname revelations on the uniques other than the pet ones, and I've not spotted anywhere in Iakona's Invention spreadsheet that says which ones are unique either. Has someone else determined what they are?
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(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned. Oh well, it probably wouldn't have stacked with Tough Hide anyway.)
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Do we know where that information has come from? I've not seen any redname revelations on the uniques other than the pet ones, and I've not spotted anywhere in Iakona's Invention spreadsheet that says which ones are unique either. Has someone else determined what they are?
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Logic dictates that it will be the cool, spiffy ones.
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Set Bonuses are always active. The special powers from IO Enhancements which grant them are not.
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What about in passive powers? If I slot +20% regeneration in Fast Healing do I get that bonus all the time?
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Passive powers are always on, therefore any enhancements of this type would always give their bonus.
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If I slot +20% regeneration in Dull Pain do I get that bonus only when I click Dull Pain?
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Right. A Set Bonus which gave +Regeneration would *always* be active in Dull Pain, while an Enhancement which grants +Regeneration would only work for a set period of time after Dull Pain was activated.
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Ok thanks. That does clarify what was said earlier about stuff in click powers always being on.
So quick rule of thumb.
Set Bonus' = Always On in clicks / passives
Set Bonus' = Only On in toggles when toggle is on.
Special IO's = Always on in passives
Special IO's = Only On in toggles when toggle is on / Only on in clicks when the power is clicked.
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No, Set Bonuses are Always On in clicks/passives/toggles.
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Gah! My head hurts already!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Ok thanks. That does clarify what was said earlier about stuff in click powers always being on.
So quick rule of thumb.
Set Bonus' = Always On in clicks / passives
Set Bonus' = Only On in toggles when toggle is on.
Special IO's = Always on in passives
Special IO's = Only On in toggles when toggle is on / Only on in clicks when the power is clicked.
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No, Set Bonuses are Always On in clicks/passives/toggles.
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Gah! My head hurts already!
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It's easy. If it is a bonus visible on the enhancement. "This enhancement adds 20% recovery" then it is active when the power is active (or has a set duration in a click power)
If it is a bonus not directly tied to a specific enhancement, then it is always active.
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(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned. Oh well, it probably wouldn't have stacked with Tough Hide anyway.)
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Do we know where that information has come from? I've not seen any redname revelations on the uniques other than the pet ones, and I've not spotted anywhere in Iakona's Invention spreadsheet that says which ones are unique either. Has someone else determined what they are?
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Logic dictates that it will be the cool, spiffy ones.
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Yeah but I wouldn't have thought that a "Res + 3% Def" would be classed as 'cool, spiffy', whereas a "+7.5% Recharge" or the "+Psi Res" ones wouldn't (and currently that is what paragonwiki is indicating). If people are currently just labelling them as unique on paragonwiki based on nothing but conjecture then I think that isn't a good idea - let's just wait and see what they actually are.
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Castle, what are the current unique enhancers if you don't mind us asking?
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Can't say yet! I can say that the list is in flux and may change during testing.
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changing.....???
in flux...???
/e thowing planning papers across the room
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Don't be. I'd expect a flux capacitor or two to be involved. Why else do you think they brought the Professor in? We're talking 88 mph, gigawatts of power and flux capacitors...
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You fool! You'll kill us all! It's JIGGAWATTS, not gigawatts!
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Nit pick: "giga" is pronounced "jigga"
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Double nit pick: In the script for Back To The Future it's spelled "jigowatts" because Robert Zemeckis is a [censored].
Hence, the joke.
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