[Unique IOs] IO effects with a duration? Ick...!!
By
2hawks,
Posted on: 2007-03-01 10:22 in The Market and Inventions
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Am I the only one that already has a headache from Inventions?
Sounds far too complicated to be fun or exciting to work with at all.
Read the guides and still lost, none of them were particularly helpful but given what we know that's not unexpected.
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No...I'm beginning to hearken back to my wonderful days in Oblivion when I was trying to figure out which enchantment fit best on which weapon or armor piece without wasting space.
There's a thread running right now regarding unlocking the slots. Just from what I've read since Dr Brainstorm's ill-fated I9 press release I'm thinking that such action is more and more needed. It sounds like Inventions are going to be SO easy to mess up that if we have to do trial and error some players are going to be steamed if/when they make a mistake.
Heck, I read somewhere that the Epic ATs were set as unlocked by a 50 because they were complicated to build and play. If they think that was complicated then Inventions is going to be a nightmare IMHO.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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But I want an Illudiom Pew36 Explosive Space Modulator!
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To blow up the Earth?.... Nice hat
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Heeeeey! There is nothing wrong with an Earth shattering kaboom.
In fact, what happened to the Earth shattering kaboom?
/e notices bunny lint leading away in the direction _Castle_ went.
/e gets a peeved look on his face.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
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If people are currently just labelling them as unique on paragonwiki based on nothing but conjecture then I think that isn't a good idea - let's just wait and see what they actually are.
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I'm the one who has been adding the [Unique] tags on ParagonWiki and updating the "hard numbers" section. The +3% defense enhancement was made unique in the latest build to hit the Training Room.
Welcome back.
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Welcome back.
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Heck yes, Welcome back Mista Carta!!!
Be safe. 
To decide whether a stackable bonus is overpowered or not, multiply it by 5. Some builds will be able to stack it that high. Many other builds will be able to add 5 other similar set bonuses on top of that.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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The Pet Damage enhancements which give unique effects (such as Taunt and Placate Resistance) turned out not to work well with the Mastermind code. So after a bit of work on the programming staffs part and a bit more of my time, those abilities now work 100% of the time once the enhancement is slotted. The radius limitation remains unchanged.
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Wow. It's like the universe itself came down and said "knock that clicky-aura crap off" and lo, a system that doesn't make every MM player in existence's brain hurt emerged from the chaos.
Thank you, cludgey, lumbering piece of code. Thank you, for putting a stop to that madness 
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a system that doesn't make every MM player in existence's brain hurt emerged from the chaos.
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That's a kludge of a phrase.
I'd have gone this way with that:
That doesn't make the brain of each and every Mastermind in existence hurt.
Or
That doesn't hurt the brain of every Mastermind in existence.
That aside. I don't see how having a during on a click hurts the mind of a Mastermind.
"Oh, it's been 5 minutes since I've summoned. I should hit this button again"
That's all there was to it, it doesn't seem to be all that difficult. You don't have to have less than the maximum possible number of Henchmen. You just needed to click the button.
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a system that doesn't make every MM player in existence's brain hurt emerged from the chaos.
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I like the possessive on existence. Gives it a feel of existence itself was hurting from this. Very cool!
Be safe.
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If people are currently just labelling them as unique on paragonwiki based on nothing but conjecture then I think that isn't a good idea - let's just wait and see what they actually are.
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I'm the one who has been adding the [Unique] tags on ParagonWiki and updating the "hard numbers" section. The +3% defense enhancement was made unique in the latest build to hit the Training Room.
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Oooh! Welcome back!
I'd only wondered because I'd not spotted the Uniques identified in your spreadsheet so I guessed you'd perhaps not discovered which they were yet - are they likely to make an appearance in the next version of your spreadsheet? Pretty please 
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a system that doesn't make every MM player in existence's brain hurt emerged from the chaos.
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I like the possessive on existence. Gives it a feel of existence itself was hurting from this. Very cool!
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Heh. I have no problem with it potentially reading as "All MM player to be found somewhere in Existence's Brain are suffering pain. Conversely, those MM players outside of Existence's Brain (seemingly to include MajorDecoy ) were [u]not[u] experiencing pain."
Goofballs 
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If people are currently just labelling them as unique on paragonwiki based on nothing but conjecture then I think that isn't a good idea - let's just wait and see what they actually are.
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FYI, you can check who has modified a wiki entry by clicking the history tab at the top of the entry. Disciplined contributors like iakona add comments describing what they edited, so it's usually easy to verify the source of new information in a Paragonwiki article.
Scrap
Ah - thanks for the tip - all this wiki stuff is a bit new to me
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3% defense stacked is ridiculously powerful. Let's keep in mind that Invul has 5 powers that it keeps on pretty much at all times (RPD, REn, REl, TI, Un). Assuming the added power enhancers stack to 5 if not unique that would give Invul 15% extra defense.
That's just stupidly overpowered. That allows an Invul tanker to be at 28% defense with ONE enemy in range and potentially at 49% defense around 10 enemies.
The 3% defense APE (Added Power Enhancer) wouldn't be overpowered for most characters who only have one or two resist passives/toggles. But in the hands of a class that can stack them, it's crazy. That's why it's unique.
7.5% recharge only stacks to 37.5% which very few set combinations could do and even then that's only a bit more than half of Hasten.
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Partially agree.
For PvE, I do agree with you. 3x5=15% is a huge number, esp to an invul tanker.
But if they can cut off most sets bonus stacking to 5, why cant they make 3% def at 2 or 3 maximum?
For PvP, as a defense set, it gets worse. In defense there is a unique 12.5% to hit bonus (that is HUGE). To counter it, I can get a +3% def bonus? Set bonus from defense is a joke, you need multiple types to get good coverage.
This is like using maneuvers to offset tactics (fine for pve balancing, but in pvp, defense sets get screwed).
Honestly, I was hoping to use the +3 def bonus on my fire tank more than my invul.
And its sad, but why no +res (all). 6% (even unique) would help the pathetic invul passives.
Now, the +psi resists got chopped. I only have 3 armors on my invul (rpd, ti, uny), and dont see the benefit (I can use those slots, and get more health and/or recovery, which is of greater use to a tank).
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
It's an old question around here. Would you rather have:
- A large, non-stacking bonus, or
- Several small stacking bonuses, or
- Both, and a hard cap to how much it can help, or
- Some wierd mix?
It really seems like the simplest solution should be to figure out the biggest bonus that any set of set bonuses should be able to give to an aspect, and have a cap.
For instance, the maximum +defense from set bonuses is +10% (or whatever). The maximum total ToHit from Set Bonuses is +12.5% (or whatever). Done. Then you can eliminate all the 'same bonus doesn't stack above 5 instances' code.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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It's an old question around here. Would you rather have:
- A large, non-stacking bonus, or
- Several small stacking bonuses, or
- Both, and a hard cap to how much it can help, or
- Some wierd mix?
It really seems like the simplest solution should be to figure out the biggest bonus that any set of set bonuses should be able to give to an aspect, and have a cap.
For instance, the maximum +defense from set bonuses is +10% (or whatever). The maximum total ToHit from Set Bonuses is +12.5% (or whatever). Done. Then you can eliminate all the 'same bonus doesn't stack above 5 instances' code.
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Hypothetically, a power set with two heals, two resistances, and two defenses might conceivably be able to hit the caps on the bonuses offered by all three sets, while a power set with 6 defenses would get capped by the caps and be unable to buy anything else.
Hypothetically, of course. The devs wouldn't really do that, would they.
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heh, good point.
...SR is a conundrum.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Actually, SR is a mugging in a dark alley.
But that's neither here nor there...
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Just a little confused here. Is he saying that is one slots an IO that has res to taunt of placate it will work 100% of the time if said IO is in a passive?
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However, castle was referring to a change specific to MM pet powers, and possibly other pet powers.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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SR is a mugging in a dark alley.
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This reminds me of when I introduced a co-worker and friend of mine to CoH. I was explaining the three types of defense to him. He has done high-level systems design and administration for the NSA and has a good head for system redundancy and robustness, so he grasped the value of layered defenses before I even mentioned it. His first comment was "Can I get defense, resistance and healing on one character?" I said "Yes." He said "Is it common?" I told him most sets had at least two of the three, and a few had three. He asked if any had only one. I said "Yes," and he said "BOHICA*, baby! BOHICA."
* BOHICA = Bend Over, Here It Comes Again
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Set Bonuses are always active. The special powers from IO Enhancements which grant them are not.
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What about in passive powers? If I slot +20% regeneration in Fast Healing do I get that bonus all the time?
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Passive powers are always on, therefore any enhancements of this type would always give their bonus.
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If I slot +20% regeneration in Dull Pain do I get that bonus only when I click Dull Pain?
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Right. A Set Bonus which gave +Regeneration would *always* be active in Dull Pain, while an Enhancement which grants +Regeneration would only work for a set period of time after Dull Pain was activated.
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What about in passive powers? If I slot +20% regeneration in Fast Healing do I get that bonus all the time?[/
So lets say I put the THB buff that goes into a defense of power (likely ment for a toggle) into a power like parry or divine avalanche.
Know does this power have a "activation time" like 5 minutes? Hmmm DA once ever 5 seconds for 5 minutes = one hell of a stacked THB.
Same applies with Toggles. Can I simply turn on/off say CJ 10 times every 5 minutes for super THB?
If the THB from these powers is based off the "pulse" of the power would this still mean this THB would last 10 seconds in DA allowing us to double or triple stack it?
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7.5% recharge only stacks to 37.5% which very few set combinations could do and even then that's only a bit more than half of Hasten.
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/SR with hasten
.375: from IO's
0.70: from hasten
1.00: base
0.95: enhancements
0.20: quickness.
Total: 3.255
Time needed for hasten to be perma: 3.75
We also have yet to add in "perma IO set + recharge"
Not an advantage... hardly. You looking at hasten have 20 seconds of down time tops... so 120 on 140 off. Even better apply it to ice/* tank with the same numbers - 20% for quickness. In which you will get perma hoarfrost. Or even here for other sets: maneuver, CJ, Stealth, Weave, grant invis. There is 37.5% on its own. Add that to regen or any set with a dull pain for pretty close to perma dull pain with hasten.
Then you can look at some of these:
With SR:
DM: soul drain close to perma,
SS: Rage close perma double stack (/elec)
BU: 10 on 18 off
Then you start looking at adding that much recharge to attack chains and such.
AR/Archery: semi-nukes up 20 seconds
BU/Aim: 20 on 8 off
Power Boost/boost range: 15 on 20 off
Not quite sure how my pets a WS will get out and stacked at same time w/ perma double stacked mires with some shape shifting.
Force Field trollers are going to be pretty interesting too. Kinetic taking a couple defense powers from pools should also have little trouble having perma hasten and adding that with sipheon speed. Then apply that to trollers again or defender and corruptes then add in nukes.
These bonuses when added and including set recharge and other thingswe have yet to see are going to be close to giving a perma speed boost - the speed and with other IO's the endurance too.
Having a perma speed boost would do alot for many of my AT's especially if I could plan and slot around it.
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7.5% recharge only stacks to 37.5% which very few set combinations could do and even then that's only a bit more than half of Hasten.
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/SR with hasten
.375: from IO's
0.70: from hasten
1.00: base
0.95: enhancements
0.20: quickness.
Total: 3.255
Time needed for hasten to be perma: 3.75
We also have yet to add in "perma IO set + recharge"
Not an advantage... hardly. You looking at hasten have 20 seconds of down time tops... so 120 on 140 off. Even better apply it to ice/* tank with the same numbers - 20% for quickness. In which you will get perma hoarfrost. Or even here for other sets: manuever, CJ, Steath, Weave, grant invis. There is 37.5% on its own. Add that to regen or any set with a dull pain for pretty close to perma dull pain with hasten.
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Its a recharge SO. Sure, its better than nothing, but its not all that great relative to the other buffs out there that exist.
Its all fine and good to say what you could do with +0.375 speed stacked on top of all this other speed, but it begs the question of whether or not the +0.375 itself is all that important relative to all that other speed.
Its the consolation prize for defense sets, because if the devs only gave us the +7.5% run speed enhancer, they would never be able to stop laughing.
Also: Hasten + 0.375 speed + 3-slot recharge is not perma-hoarfrost. Not since I6, anyway.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Also: Hasten + 0.375 speed + 3-slot recharge is not perma-hoarfrost. Not since I6, anyway.
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Hoarfrost
1.0 - base
.375 - IO
.70 - hasten
.95 - slots
3.025
Hoar frost 360 recharge 120 up. 360 / 3.025 = 119 recharge
Also we are not adding in another IO set recharge or other factors yet.
Hasten will be about 120 on and 29 seconds off. So for 29 seconds Hoar Frosts recharge drops from 3.025 to 2.325 So we have 270 seconds at 3.025 (90 seconds of rchg) and 90 seconds at 2.325 (39 second of rechg). So it recharges in 129 seconds out of 120 and again this is without any of the other bonus recharge that are there. This is also on the second hoarfrost... So you have Hoarfrost up 240 / 249 seconds. Before any additional recharge that is there. So we are looking at a 9 second down time every 4 minutes (again without a single other recharge that is there in sets)... unless you want to split hairs... thats perma.
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(Also, on the Paragonwiki page, the Res/+ 3% def is marked as unique, which means I won't get to slot one into each of my passives like I had planned. Oh well, it probably wouldn't have stacked with Tough Hide anyway.)
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Do we know where that information has come from? I've not seen any redname revelations on the uniques other than the pet ones, and I've not spotted anywhere in Iakona's Invention spreadsheet that says which ones are unique either. Has someone else determined what they are?
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Logic dictates that it will be the cool, spiffy ones.
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Yeah but I wouldn't have thought that a "Res + 3% Def" would be classed as 'cool, spiffy', whereas a "+7.5% Recharge" or the "+Psi Res" ones wouldn't (and currently that is what paragonwiki is indicating). If people are currently just labelling them as unique on paragonwiki based on nothing but conjecture then I think that isn't a good idea - let's just wait and see what they actually are.
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3% defense stacked is ridiculously powerful. Let's keep in mind that Invul has 5 powers that it keeps on pretty much at all times (RPD, REn, REl, TI, Un). Assuming the added power enhancers stack to 5 if not unique that would give Invul 15% extra defense.
That's just stupidly overpowered. That allows an Invul tanker to be at 28% defense with ONE enemy in range and potentially at 49% defense around 10 enemies.
The 3% defense APE (Added Power Enhancer) wouldn't be overpowered for most characters who only have one or two resist passives/toggles. But in the hands of a class that can stack them, it's crazy. That's why it's unique.
7.5% recharge only stacks to 37.5% which very few set combinations could do and even then that's only a bit more than half of Hasten.
Finally, I'm not trusting Paragon Wiki, because the Psi resist ones were reported a few days ago as being unique. I'm just waiting until open test to see for myself, but I don't think there's any way the Psi resist APEs should not be unique.
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