Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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Well, I wouldn't say utter suicide. The Controller could very well have mez resistance too, and may be able to do all sorts of nasty tricks like healing, debuffing the hell out of you (I didn't see -recharge or slow on that list), throwing a pile of super-buffed pets at you, or simply out playing you.
Do not underestimate the bag of tricks that is a Buff/Debuff set. An Ice/Kinetics Controller can do HORRIBLE things to you without even achiving a basic immobilize effect.
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The thing to do would be to get the dom to fire off domination then run and let it time out useless. this is the problem with a jekyl and hyde approach.
Dominators are one trick ponies, get them to fire the domination then just wait it out.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Ok Now I can truely say dominators do not flat out suck. All we need is more damage outside of domination, for domination bar to not go away from death and we will have everything we need.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Thanks for the response.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Wow this is a pretty impressive thing. All we need is it to grant overload type defense and we are good to go 
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You have to wonder what the Mag of Domination's status protection is, though. Remember, Controllers have a fairly easy time stacking enough magnitude to break through most status protection.
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I can see the protection level being as good as or better then Tanker/Scrapper levels. The protection is going to be up for 90 seconds. Any mezz effects on the Dom. will hit like a ton of bricks when Domination ends.
I think this change makes Domination truely unique. Dominator (for brief periods of time) are truely the masters of Domination.
I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.
Dear Devs,
Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.
Much love for your work,
-Shak
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I think this change makes Domination truely unique. Dominator (for brief periods of time) are truely the masters of Domination.
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I'm pretty sure it is unique. Are there any other powers in the game (besides insps of course) that can break an existing hold or stun on yourself?
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I think this change makes Domination truely unique. Dominator (for brief periods of time) are truely the masters of Domination.
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I'm pretty sure it is unique. Are there any other powers in the game (besides insps of course) that can break an existing hold or stun on yourself?
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a 5o infamy inspiration can. 
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The thing to do would be to get the dom to fire off domination then run and let it time out useless. this is the problem with a jekyl and hyde approach.
Dominators are one trick ponies, get them to fire the domination then just wait it out.
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If you run away from a dominator in full-on domination mode, it's because he let you run away or because you just ate half a tray of breakfrees.
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I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.
Dear Devs,
Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.
Much love for your work,
-Shak
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As much as I like the change, this is extremely true.
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The thing to do would be to get the dom to fire off domination then run and let it time out useless. this is the problem with a jekyl and hyde approach.
Dominators are one trick ponies, get them to fire the domination then just wait it out.
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If you run away from a dominator in full-on domination mode, it's because he let you run away or because you just ate half a tray of breakfrees.
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Takes two to three holds on a Scrapper to hold him with Domination up, IIRC--Domination holds are mag 8 in PvP. If he can run successfully from that, because I can stack holds faster than you can say [censored] and I've probably BEEN stacking them the entire time before I even used Domination, he'll need to zone to restock his breakfrees.
This is even better than Indomitable Will--we get it at level one!
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I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.
Dear Devs,
Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.
Much love for your work,
-Shak
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As much as I like the change, this is extremely true.
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Much as I like it too, I agree we could do with some work outside of Domination.
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I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.
Dear Devs,
Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.
Much love for your work,
-Shak
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As much as I like the change, this is extremely true.
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Much as I like it too, I agree we could do with some work outside of Domination.
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I for one think that we only need small tweaks. 0.70 AT mod for ranged attacks and blaster level hps. As for Doms being weak outside of Domination, I truly feel that's at lower levels. Different AT's come into their own at different levels. No one can compete with a Stalker at level 6. But by the mid-20's, most Dom builds should be flying. People from every egde of Dom-nation have agreed that seems to be when their Dom took flight. Between this change and the decreased recharge on Domination, even lower levels should feel a huge difference.
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I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.
Dear Devs,
Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.
Much love for your work,
-Shak
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It sounds like dominators aren't for you. Building up to and clicking on domination is the whole point. Corruptors, by way of example, are pretty "consistent" in what they do. I played one for awhile. I WAS BORED TO TEARS!! 
Re-read Positron's post. Especially this part:
Then of course there is the Domination ability, which is the real Jekyl and Hyde of the AT. A mild-manner Dominator with a full Domination bar can, at his or her discretion, become an unstoppable machine of destruction and control. While it never lasts "long enough" (even I am disappointed at hearing the sound effect of it wearing off), I've had missions where I have gotten Domination off four times from mission-entry to having Mission Complete appear on the screen. Good times indeed.
My dominators have never been "crappy." Maybe you are just crappy as a dominator?
I hate being a naysayer, but as absolutely awesome as the proposed mez protection sounds I have to agree that I was hoping for better balance when Domination was not active. Yes, while we have Domination active we will be incredibly powerful, maybe even uber but I don't think I want to be so dependent on the 90 second click inherent. I'm sure I will enjoy popping domination more than ever now, but I would happily forego the mez protection in domination for better balance the rest of the time.
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My dominators have never been "crappy." Maybe you are just crappy as a dominator?
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Sorry to say I don't agree with this. One of my regular team mates plays doms almost exclusively and plays them well. He has ice/ice, grav/en, fire/en melee type and plant/thorns so a fair sample. He thoroughly enjoyed playing up to 40 and then found they started to suck with all the malta/carnie mezzing and end draining that turned up, and purple triangle AV/hero downgraded to EBs, even more so after 45.
If he as a devoted dominator player tells me they suck in the high level game, I'm inclined to agree with him.
I suspect some doms may hold domination back as a get out of jail, which may not improve their enjoyment but will improve their survivability a touch. A buff while dom is not up would help more, I certainly already feel uber while dom is running.
As an aside, playing mainly brutes myself I have been very disappointed with the high level (45+ particularly, but 40-45 too) game's reliance on end drain and EB/AVs with tier 9 god mode powers. Malta, carnies and longbow appear in far too high a proportion of the late game missions, and drain the fun out of play about as fast as the end for both solo doms and brutes. Plus a series of EBs you can't hold most of the time, and can't hit for several minutes at a time is not my idea of fun.
PS they missed resists to slow and placate
Lucifer's Lieutenant 50 SS/fire brute protector
and 70+ others including 7 CoH 50s and 3 other CoV 40+
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
/e sighs and rubs his temples.
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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.
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Cataloguing, this means that two out of six Hero Archetypes will have some form of major status protection available archetype-wide, namely Tankers and Scrappers, and three out of five Villains will, namely Brutes, Stalkers and Dominators.
Hmm...
Any chance of putting something like this into Defiance to even up the numbers?
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If we need to even up the numbers, the place to put Squishie Mez Resistance on the CoH side is Defenders.
An almost dead Blaster breaking mez isn't going to be able to pull a team's fanny out of the fire, and while Controllers could pull the team's fanny out - so can Defenders. And they need the boost more. And it will work quite well thematically with Vengeance to have ever increasing mez resistance as your team gets more and more pummelled (not that it wouldn't work thematically for Defiance).
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An almost dead Blaster breaking mez isn't going to be able to pull a team's fanny out of the fire
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The almost dead blaster wouldn't mind it if he or she could pull their own fanny out of the fire, though. One issue with defiance is: hit by damage, do more damage in return; hit by mez, stand there looking stupid with +500% damage and no way to shoot back. The mez vulnerability of blasters should make them vulnerable to mez, but that should be counterbalanced by the desire to design defiance to be useful when it needs to be. There's no point in it being useful when it doesn't need to be.
My guess is that because so much dominator damage is melee ranged, the devs wanted to ensure that when a dominator triggers domination, they can jump into the middle of the fight and be effective: they temporarily become control-blappers. Since mez is more plentiful at short range, mez protection is a reasonable addition to keep domination effective (and to boost dominator damage output while its up, which seems to be its purpose).
A similar case can be made for defiance: its designed to give a tiered step-ladder of performance. At the very least, as a blaster transitions from one step of performance to the next lower (stronger) level, I would think they should have some opportunity to break a controlling mez so they can use that additional offensive firepower.
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Actually, I'd prefer to have some good mez protection when NOT in Domination mode, and have it go away in Domination mode.
The real issue is the lackluster abilities outside of Domination, which is most of the time. I think that's what turns most players off the archetype. It's easy to give up on dominators by the late teens when you're doing mediocre damage most of the time with high endurance costs. Beefing up Domination won't make the archetype any more attractive, since Domination is already very nifty.
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I'd second this idea. Seems like it would hopefully appeal to the devs idea of risk vs. reward still too. Make doms safer outside of domination, but to become more powerful in our holding and damage with domination activated, we get the drawback of becoming "vulnerable" to mezzing.
Edit: Oh well, from Castle's posts sounds like the other way is already a done thing.
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Ok after I've calmed myself down a bit, I'm wondering...
Mez resistance or mez protection?
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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.
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Zomg LOLOL.
Wow devs! This is much more than I expected. LOL I'll be able to walk through Force Bubble and Telekinesis.
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Actually Telekinesis still 'pushes you back' even if you have mez protection, not that it's a problem since most of us Doms have ATLEAST one ranged attack.
Still this is very very good news seeing Domination as a 'break free' sort've thing in future.
I'm going to start grinding my Psi/Psi right after I post this 
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Well, that's the problem -- even three doms on a team cannot lockdown an AV with triangles.
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You -are- aware that triangles don't make an AV harder to lock down, right? They only represent how much resistance the AV already has/has left.
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This is not true. Triangles down? Boss level Mag protection.
Triangles up? appears to be 50-99 mag protection.
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...but they're not -doing- anything except showing what already is and what already was on the old av/ebs before they were added. The only thing the triangles going in changed was letting you see that the mob had a high protection and lets you see if you're close to breaking through it.
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While I love the idea of mezz protection, i have to agree it feels like just another reason to crutch on Domination. I was thinking that since domination boosts damage (which we supposedly have) and controls, why not have it boost inherent mezz protection? Like, give doms a mag 4 resist to hold, sleep, disorient, and then domination boost it, along with the fear, confuse, KB, repel, so that way we can survive ONE hold on our own. To help with the peaks and valley issues a lot of people have
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Soooo....AVs can't hold a dom and a dom still can't hold an AV?
And to top it off my troller can still outdamage my dom....one shot yellow minions vs. three shotting white minions.....
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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O M G !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY
All of you are sexy!!!
Ok now where is that Whirling Hands I skipped. RESPEC.