Lucas_Conrad

Well.

A whole SG of griefers can field a LOT of influence for buying Enhancements, if they think it's funny enough to futz up the market. If it's funny, a grief SG can do just about anything they put their minds to.

First hand experience, that.

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Theoretically, person (or persons, more likely) could assume total control of your market by flooding your market with enhancements of all stripes and types and levels all set to sell at one influence each, ensuring they're always going to be bought first.

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The only problem is, he's risking someone ELSE will come along and offer only 2 inf for what he's buying, at which time he gets nothing. By setting a sell price, he's setting the MINIMUM he's willing to take. If that minimum is 1 inf, then there's the possibility you'll get that. I suspect about half the "normal" price is the minimum you'll want to list for, if you want to speed up the sale.

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Well, the point isn't that he'd rake in the cash, it's that he'd prevent somebody else from doing this. It's a potential avenue for grief, by cutting everyone -else- out of the process by producing a constant stream of rediculously cheap enhancements.

It's a hypothetical, I'll grant you.

Yeah, bit of a flaw with this system.

Theoretically, person (or persons, more likely) could assume total control of your market by flooding your market with enhancements of all stripes and types and levels all set to sell at one influence each, ensuring they're always going to be bought first.

Of course, this is assuming that some people are actually going to be stupid enough (IE: economically "honest") to set an enhancement at what they think it's worth instead of always at 1 Influence, in the hopes of making any influence at all off what has traditionally not been that rare a resource.

You've created the perpetual low-balling machine, Positron, and I salute you.

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Edit: Tyed minimum when I meant Maximum. One day, I'll learn to proofread.

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Just not today, it seems.

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I'm sorry I didn't read this thread - so I don't know if what I'm about to say has been repeated.

Dear Devs,

Please please please don't balance an entire AT based on a click inherent ability. When people complain that dominators are not strong enough, the solution should NOT be to buff domination. Simply put, it's more fun to play a good character all the time than a crappy character most of the time that turns into an UBER god sometimes.

Much love for your work,
-Shak

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As much as I like the change, this is extremely true.

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Looks like Kineticists have just become the Dominator's best friends.

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Kineticists were the Dominator's best friends already. Kineticists are everybody's best friend, all the time.

Well, I wouldn't say utter suicide. The Controller could very well have mez resistance too, and may be able to do all sorts of nasty tricks like healing, debuffing the hell out of you (I didn't see -recharge or slow on that list), throwing a pile of super-buffed pets at you, or simply out playing you.

Do not underestimate the bag of tricks that is a Buff/Debuff set. An Ice/Kinetics Controller can do HORRIBLE things to you without even achiving a basic immobilize effect.

I REALLY hate being balanced around a timer.. but I will admit that, if I have to be, having a Gamma Powered Break Free at my fingertips while I am is going to be very nice.

We're getting somewhere with this now.

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I don't get it. Part of the game is figuring out how to make things work for you, and part of being new to something is screwing that up.

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There are plenty of opportunities to screw up even if you have a general idea of how the AT is supposed to work.

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I don't know, but it sounds a little to me like asking for the solution to a puzzle so you can actually enjoy it.

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Not the solution, a hint.

But, on the subject, this isn't a puzzle, nor should it be. It's an action MMORPG, not Sudoku. If I want to wrack my brain trying to figure something out, I'll go read a murder mystery. If I want to fly around being a badass with Mind Control powers..

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Plus you can't hand players a guide to how to play an AT, since there isn't one. The devs might have an idea of how something should work but players are the ones that come up with the real strategies.

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I can't believe this is right. It makes too little sense.

Are you trying to tell me that the Developers designed something.. that they don't know how to work themselves? How could you possibly expect to develop something that is balanced and fits into a class dynamic if you don't know just what it can do?

If they're not doing this (and reflecting on past changes, holy christ, they aren't are they?), then why the hell not?

This seems like it's basically tantamount to 'Okay, we'll release this functionally untested and unknown quantity as a finished part of this complex game onto the public, without any warning about it's true nature. When things go pear shaped, we'll fix it a few months later'.

Speaking as a guy with a degree in programming, that concept scares the everloving [censored] out of me.

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This is why we have to tell them something doesn't work or occationally something works far too well.

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This honestly seems like their job. It's not, nor should it ever be, the player's job to act as quality assurance for anything but problems relating to having over a thousand people using something at once.

Not unless we're gonna get paid QA's wages.

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It's unrealistic to dismiss any comparisons between the two across the board. It's not like you gave us any primer on how to be a Dominator, what do you expect us to do?

"We Control. They Control. We deal damage. They deal damage. Let's do what they're doing."

"Wait, why am I dying so much."


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Which is why some people suck at being stalkers.

Or brutes.

Or corruptors.

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Yes, because they are essentially being commanded to build a house with a huge pile of lumber, power tools, and absolutely no knowledge of construction.

Some people can do it, some can't. Some look at the house next door and try to do what he did. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes they think back to houses they made in other states (okay, this metaphor is going on too long).

Layman's terms, some people figure it out quickly, others bumble around for 50 levels. Some people copycat another, successful build or philosophy from other people/ats, and some people draw upon past MMO experience.

This is why I am eternally frustrated with my Mind/Psi Dominator, despite being pretty [censored] good at the Control aspect. I'm playing my Illusion/FF Controller; very focused on control/offense, don't pay attention to defense so much (because I had Personal Force Field and Dispersion Field at my disposal).

Obviously, this isn't how the Dominator should be played. But, guess what, Posi?

Nobody knows definitively how to play a Dominator 'right' but the people who designed them. Unless you're a Dominator Savant, it's nothing but [censored] guesswork and drawing from past experiences (but who knows which ones you should draw on!).

You guys could remedy this EASILY.

Until you do this, people will keep being pissed off because they're not playing the AT right and don't even know it. And they'll keep playing it, because they want to use Control.

I hate Dominators. I love Control. I play a Dominator. At least, until I get so pissed I have to go play my Stalker.

Thank God I've got a lot of past experience in that playstyle.

Wasn't Jekyl a huge wuss?

God, I hate being balanced around a clock. I hate that, no matter what I do, no matter how good I am, there are going to be times where I am simply not operating at my best and, moreover, there's nothing I can do to change it.

Also, Positron, you should consider something. Consider that nobody else but you dev guys has the inside information on just the right way to play a Dominator. We've got to stumble blindly through until we find our place.

Despite what you say, the closest thing to draw upon for that is, in fact, the Controller archetype. The Dominator isn't 'CoV's Controller', it's 'CoV's Control Archetype'.

And the Controller is 'CoH's Control Archetype'.

It's unrealistic to dismiss any comparisons between the two across the board. It's not like you gave us any primer on how to be a Dominator, what do you expect us to do?

"We Control. They Control. We deal damage. They deal damage. Let's do what they're doing."

"Wait, why am I dying so much."

Stop being so [censored] stingy with numbers and design philosophy and INTENT. I'd guess that something like 85% of all the data at the player base's disposal is created by the playerbase. Which means it's subject to speculation, modification, and condemnation.

Meanwhile, if the Devs put out numbers about what Armor X, Blast Y, and Mega Nuke Z did, there would be no doubt that's what they did.

I know it's Cryptic Studios, but that doesn't mean we should have to go datamining ourselves to figure out what our own damn powers really do, let alone how we're supposed to put this all together into a working, contributing class.

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Don't worry, the devs don't read this board

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I wouldn't say that.

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Objective One - Dev Posts in the Dominator Forum: Complete!
Objective Two - Meaningful Dev Posts in the Dominator Forum: Go!

A minor point that's bugging the everloving [censored] out of me.

Stop saying a Dominator + X is better than just X as if it's some inherent boon to being a Dominator. ANYTHING is better with more numbers.

ANYTHING.

A Mastermind who doesn't spec in his pets and a Stalker is better than just a Stalker. [censored] Jenkins and a Stalker is better than just a Stalker. It's not a [censored] selling of Dominators that if you pair them up with another AT, things don't get worse.

Breathe. Two. Three. Four.

Okay, continue.

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Then explain why you have a whole powerset dedicated to nothing but dealing damage.



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My psychic power set isnt totally devoted and its almost like a secondary set a blaster has...with melee attacks and melee ranged effects.

And to answer the question...becasue the developers couldnt think of anything else to give players at the time...

oh well...

These problems might be cured if the Rest power would actually raise the domination meter as well as health and energy.

I mean Rest basically is a form of meditation after all....and meditation is a way to focus the inner energy of one self isnt it?

But i guess having the rest power do that...might make it too useful and add too much of a different type of dynamic to the game that would make it not only more balanced but more fun on the whole.

I mean gee that whopping 60 seconds of domination power that gives you holds that last as long as a controller and some damage half as powerful as a blaster might just be too much power for anyone.

Of course people will just use a hold on a dominator who is glowing from the effect and make the entire ability useless as usual but then thats just how it goes.

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Psionic Assault

Psi Dart: Damage.
Mind Probe: Damage
Telekinetic Thrust: Knockback/Damage (more than Dart, but ineffecient to use as an attack)
Mental Blast: Technically an attack, albeit a [censored] one.
Psychic Scream: Damage.
Drain Psyche: Debuff/Recovery/Regen Boost.
Subdue: Damage.
Psionic Lance: Damage.
Psychic Shockwave: Damage.

Being generous and not counting Telekinetic Thrust as an offense-oriented maneuver, that's 77% Damage. Psy is also the weakest damage set.

Thorny Assault: 8/9 (88%), counting Aim as a power that is a direct component of combat.

Firey Assault: 8/9 (88%), counting Fiery Embrace the same as Aim.

Icy Assault: 7/9 (77%), but Chilling Embrace should be counted as offense because it's an active debuff designed to be used when engaged in direct combat.

Energy Assault: 7/9 (77%), a case can be made that Power Boost is a direct boost to combat with Energy Melee attacks due to the disorient attatched to them.

Taken as a whole, that's 82% of all Assault powers geared directly towards attacking. That earns the name Assault. In summation, yes, your Psionic Assault set is dedicated to damage.

It's dedicated to damage poorly, but it is.

Edit: As a comparison.. Blaster Secondaries.

Devices: 4/9, 33%
Electricity Manipulation: 6/9, 66%
Energy Manipulation: 5/9, 55%
Fire Manipulation: 7/9, 77%
Ice Manipulation: 5/9, 55%

Total: 60%.

On an overall basis, comparing attack powers, damage boosts, and damage auras, Dominators actually have a more offense-oriented secondaries. A moot point because Blasters do so tremendously much more, but interesting anyway.

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I can't deal damage worth a spit, but I don't see that as my job.

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Then explain why you have a whole powerset dedicated to nothing but dealing damage.

Anyone who thinks Dominators aren't supposed to deal damage is completely out of touch. We have to be designed to deal damage, or we're basically an AT with only one powerset. It would be ludicrous to create an archetype that has a powerset they're not supposed to use.

The fact that half of our two powerset classifications orients exclusively around dealing damage is practically a commandment set in stone that we are supposed to deal damage.

It makes no sense to have a set that is nothing but damage otherwise. It is the complete opposite of rational thought. It would take a design flaw of EPIC proportions to piss away nine of an AT's 18 integral powers on things that they aren't supposed to use.

Give the devs more credit than that.

Please, please don't balance Dominator damage primarily with pets. Keep in mind, Mind Control has no pet. It'd be like balancing Psionic Assault by raising Dominator's melee modifier, only on a larger scale.

Any damage increase needs to come in a fashion that is widely accessable to -everyone-, IE, ranged attacks.

Edit: Also, in case anyone didn't know, Controllers/Dominators have Magnitude 3 Holds. That takes down an LT in one hit; to take down a boss, you need a magnitude 4 Control. Usually the ST immobilizes and Mesmerize. Controllers have a chance to critical on a Hold to bump it up to Mangitude 4.

If an EPP Hold can Hold Lieutenants, but is stopped by Acrobatics, then that leads me to believe they're between magnitude 2 and 3 (and Acrobatics has a comparable amount of protection at higher levels, being able to stop those holds but not stop a Controller hold).

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Second point: What other AT is only useful 45% of the time? If the only thing we bring to a team is the use of Domination, then we are indeed only useful 45% of the time in optimal conditions.

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Much like Blasters, Tankers, Scrappers, Corruptors, MMs, Brutes, etc, Dominators need a team to reach full capacity.

Speed Boost, AM, even Hasten will help ya there.

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Yes, they need a team, but the point is that they start from a MUCH lower point, and their full capacity is MUCH lower than their peers.

Of course I'm looking at it from the view of a single Dominator on a team.

I'm a single Dominator.

Unless you're going to start chaining Dominators together or giving players with level 40 Doms another account, there's no reason not to consider the lone Dominator in the team. It's just flat-out not fair to say we're only going to be a good addition to a team when they're two of us.

You have to see where I'm coming from with this, right? Saying two Dominators is great is well and good, but what about when there's only one? And you're that one?

You know, I kind of doubt that. I'd think that, between Taunt and Gauntlet, it may be somewhere in the 65% range.

But if we want to talk greatly diminished capacity in PvP from PvE, okay, let's. I'm sure a Dominator will 'beat' a Tank in that field any day.

Two points:

He wasn't saying Blasters and Corruptors teaming up. He was saying that while those points can be applied to those two ATs, Blasters bring supreme damage and higher HP, while Corruptors seperately bring very impressive damage and the ability to self heal or self buff.

Second point: What other AT is only useful 45% of the time? If the only thing we bring to a team is the use of Domination, then we are indeed only useful 45% of the time in optimal conditions.

Think about that. What if a Tanker could only hold agro 45% of the time, or a Blaster only had amazing damage 45% of the time? Or a Defender, his buffs would only be up 45% of the time?

There'd be a [censored] riot.

Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to make Dominators a sub-par AT, with reduced Control and inferior damage. Defenders have this same problem with their ranged damage: why does a Tanker have a melee modifier of .8 as his secondary powerset, but Defenders and Dominators have .65?

It makes no sense. They at least have a number of debuffs to draw on that are up a Hell of a lot more frequently than Domination, but it's still ludicrous.

Basically, you just do that stretching flex like you're starting up Temporary Invulnerability, then energy and Black Scorpion's insignia flash around you. There's no mace.

Well, anything can be a threat if you have enough of them. Throw enough Scrappers or Blasters or anything at a problem and you'll take it down. That's not a quality of Dominators, that's just the cold hard reality of numbers.

Yeah.. but why should we have to slot it with three recharges?

Look at Seeds of Confusion. Pretty much the same thing, only in a cone and with agro. Is that worth the difference between a (quick estimation) 60 second recharge and something in the neighborgood of a 240 recharge?

It's always irked me that Plant Control get a very nice version of Mind's 32 power and a pet.

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Just a thought on the damage buff. Castle has said in other posts when they make changes they usually make small ones (like the taunt change in pvp) see how they work then move them up or down accordingly. That leads me to beleive that the damage buff started as a very small change and the devs are seeing how it affects dominator play style. If they find that its not enough (which I personally don't think it but thats just my opinion) the other powers might get a damage increase as well (if not more of an increase to melee). I guess we will see how it shakes out. More or less I think devs don't want to over do it and raise expectations too high only to bring them crashing down. my two cents.

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Well, if it's this is the case, and they plan to start stacking up little buff on little buff on little buff until we're at an acceptable level, it'd be nice if they told us.

Edit: Also, if our Melee Modifier was raised to .8 and our Ranged Modifier to .75, we probably still wouldn't be able to do as much damage as Corruptors or Tankers in general. These two classes generally have more Melee/Ranged attacks to draw on, many with higher damage scales than we can claim with ours.

I don't think any of us are going to be popping out Nova-level damage, or chaining a Total Focus into an Energy Transfer. Plus, the actual dedicated damage dealer among those two has Scourge to boost his damage with.

Tankers get a .8 melee modifier, I think that's a pretty good precedent. They don't have any ranged attacks, but they do have buckets of HP, amazing defenses, and they're amazing at control.

That control, of course, is making enemies attack the least attractive target on the scene. Taunt's got a fast recharge and always hits, and Punchvoke's a great addition. It's pretty effective when you get rolling.