Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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Well, that's the problem -- even three doms on a team cannot lockdown an AV with triangles.
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You -are- aware that triangles don't make an AV harder to lock down, right? They only represent how much resistance the AV already has/has left.
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This is not true. Triangles down? Boss level Mag protection.
Triangles up? appears to be 50-99 mag protection.
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...but they're not -doing- anything except showing what already is and what already was on the old av/ebs before they were added. The only thing the triangles going in changed was letting you see that the mob had a high protection and lets you see if you're close to breaking through it.
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Not true, AVs used to have no protection at all. Statesman, in a post that has since scrolled but that I had captured in Controllers: The Vision Thing, shows Statesman asking people not to accuse him of nerfing controllers again (first nerf being the PA/imp changes from minions to pets) just because the AV protection went live because he works a few issues ahead...admitting it was an overreaction...and then promising a fix. That was 7/15/04.
The triangles were the fix, to the state of perma "impossible to hold" that was in existence from 7/15/04 until the triangles went live. Before 7/15/04, AVs simply had a few more mag than Bosses.
Castle,
Are you also looking at each powerset to see if there some that need to be tweaked?
Crystal Saint
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And to top it off my troller can still outdamage my dom....one shot yellow minions vs. three shotting white minions.....
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Are you sure you don't mean 2-shot? Even my Illusion/Storm/Stone can't one shot people, and I'd count setting up containment as a shot.
I suppose it's not worth anything either that I can 3 shot a dozen minions at once with my fire/fire.
This is an absolutely huge change. Domination is going from a great power to an 'I win' button.
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I suppose it's not worth anything either that I can 3 shot a dozen minions at once with my fire/fire.
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Gail i'm disapointed...you know us fire/fire doms dont count for [censored] on this board 
Your Insanity May Vary..."I've got the acumen of a seasoned pro, and the lack of say of a billion souls...can't you trip like i do?" - (can't you)Trip like i do - Filter/the Crystal Method from the Spawn OST
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Any halfway decent controller can blow through a Melee's mez resistance. You are dreadfully wrong on this account. And holding through break-frees? Controllers have been doing it in PvP since the Arena came out, and controllers can do it consistently, not just during the 90 seconds of Domination. Advantage -> Controllers.
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what holds do controllers have that we dont get access to that allow them to do this? or do you infer that the duration difference is so good in favor of 'trollers that they can do it but doms cant(that 2 seconds adds up i guess)? or are you counting on 'crit holds'? what combination of these if one is insufficient?
from my experiences with 'trollers (limited, but i have some) and dominators, it might take a few seconds longer, but anything that a 'troller can lock down, so can a dominator. add inherents to the mix and it's no contest...advantage --> dominators (holdmag+1 < holdmagX2).
AFAIK outside of inherents the only difference between the 9 control powers a dom gets and the 9 that a 'troller get is the duration (advantage 'troller) and damage (advantage dominator [FYI - controls use the ranged damage modifier, so 55% to 65% respectively] ...until you consider that the 'troller can probably buff his/her own damage).
Your Insanity May Vary..."Somethin kinda sad about the way that things have come to be. Desensatized to everything, what became of subtlety?"
Some secondaries for controllers have holds.
Rad has an aoe hold, TA has a single target and aoe. All post 41 have access to powerboost instead of just 2 specifics.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I suppose it's not worth anything either that I can 3 shot a dozen minions at once with my fire/fire.
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Gail i'm disapointed...you know us fire/fire doms dont count for [censored] on this board
Your Insanity May Vary..."I've got the acumen of a seasoned pro, and the lack of say of a billion souls...can't you trip like i do?" - (can't you)Trip like i do - Filter/the Crystal Method from the Spawn OST
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You're right Dom. I'm deeply sorry for forgetting this yet again. I'm really going to have to roll up a grav/psi so my opinions will once more be valid. 
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You're right Dom. I'm deeply sorry for forgetting this yet again. I'm really going to have to roll up a grav/psi so my opinions will once more be valid.
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Hey I play a grav/psi!
Its actually not too bad, yet
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Soooo....AVs can't hold a dom and a dom still can't hold an AV?
And to top it off my troller can still outdamage my dom....one shot yellow minions vs. three shotting white minions.....
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just to clarify, av's can't hold a dom during the 90 secs domination is up. they can still hold and 1-shot doms just fine in the other 200+ seconds
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Some secondaries for controllers have holds.
Rad has an aoe hold, TA has a single target and aoe. All post 41 have access to powerboost instead of just 2 specifics.
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so a somthing/rad has choking cloud right? PBAoE toggle right? (we all know how wonderful most of the ppl here think PBAoE's are.) the trick arrow one isn't in the manual, so i dont know which they are. and the APP ones i'm clueless about (no 50 heros...hell, no lvl 30 heros!). cool, thx shubbie. i should have known that. so a somthing/rad or /ta before APP's can do it (what do they give up for choosing them i wonder?) is that the only build or can they all do it like Two Trick said for other reasons?
Your Insanity May Vary...i guess it's SOME controllers if built right, not controllers can...
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Soooo....AVs can't hold a dom and a dom still can't hold an AV?
And to top it off my troller can still outdamage my dom....one shot yellow minions vs. three shotting white minions.....
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just to clarify, av's can't hold a dom during the 90 secs domination is up. they can still hold and 1-shot doms just fine in the other 200+ seconds
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they can 1-shot brutes, they'd by gods and deamons BETTER be able to do it to doms!!!
Your Insanity May Vary...
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I suppose it's not worth anything either that I can 3 shot a dozen minions at once with my fire/fire.
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Gail i'm disapointed...you know us fire/fire doms dont count for [censored] on this board
Your Insanity May Vary..."I've got the acumen of a seasoned pro, and the lack of say of a billion souls...can't you trip like i do?" - (can't you)Trip like i do - Filter/the Crystal Method from the Spawn OST
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You're right Dom. I'm deeply sorry for forgetting this yet again. I'm really going to have to roll up a grav/psi so my opinions will once more be valid.
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just call me djimmi...or dj. Dom sounds so pretentious in casual conversation (the reason i've been considerin changin my forum name yet again!!!)
Your Insanity May Vary...i thought my fire/fire dom was tough til i rolled up a ice/ice. spawn of 3 minions at +1 to me died in 4 attacks...1 aoe(ISC) and a finisher each. the last one died to brawl forcrissake!!!
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Some secondaries for controllers have holds.
Rad has an aoe hold, TA has a single target and aoe. All post 41 have access to powerboost instead of just 2 specifics.
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so a somthing/rad has choking cloud right? PBAoE toggle right? (we all know how wonderful most of the ppl here think PBAoE's are.) the trick arrow one isn't in the manual, so i dont know which they are. and the APP ones i'm clueless about (no 50 heros...hell, no lvl 30 heros!). cool, thx shubbie. i should have known that. so a somthing/rad or /ta before APP's can do it (what do they give up for choosing them i wonder?) is that the only build or can they all do it like Two Trick said for other reasons?
Your Insanity May Vary...i guess it's SOME controllers if built right, not controllers can...
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Trick arrow has ice arrow which is a single target hold. And emp arrow which is a ranged aoe hold.
Rad has chocking cloud which is a toggle pbaoe hold, and emp pulse which is a click pbaoe hold.
Also want to point out emp arrow nd emp pulse are VERY strong holds.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Some secondaries for controllers have holds.
Rad has an aoe hold, TA has a single target and aoe. All post 41 have access to powerboost instead of just 2 specifics.
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so a somthing/rad has choking cloud right? PBAoE toggle right? (we all know how wonderful most of the ppl here think PBAoE's are.) the trick arrow one isn't in the manual, so i dont know which they are. and the APP ones i'm clueless about (no 50 heros...hell, no lvl 30 heros!). cool, thx shubbie. i should have known that. so a somthing/rad or /ta before APP's can do it (what do they give up for choosing them i wonder?) is that the only build or can they all do it like Two Trick said for other reasons?
Your Insanity May Vary...i guess it's SOME controllers if built right, not controllers can...
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Trick arrow has ice arrow which is a single target hold. And emp arrow which is a ranged aoe hold.
Rad has chocking cloud which is a toggle pbaoe hold, and emp pulse which is a click pbaoe hold.
Also want to point out emp arrow nd emp pulse are VERY strong holds.
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i believe you. have no reason to doubt it. but my point from the post you originally quoted me from was that someone said 'controllers' can do something that doms cant. i asked how as i couldnt see 'controllers' doin it. i CAN (and could before you pointed out specifically how) see how 'some controllers' could tho. i was attempting to correct false information, which you added more info to (again, thx btw. seriously)...helpful, but draws the focus away from the correction.
i apreciate the effort to try to convince me of the viability of /TA's holds...but not all 'trollers are /ta or even /rad (altho seems like somedays you could hop on some servers and do datamining to come up with a reasonable arguement that all 'trollers ARE /rad ).
so, again some controllers can stack mez ALOT faster than a dom can, if built for it (33% chance to pick the right secondary to do this before APPs). but it's NOT true that controllers can stack mez ALOT faster than dominators (not including inherents).
Your Insanity May Vary...still wondering what you have to give up in APP's for the extra holds? is it in the set with the mez protection? or fireball?
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You're right Dom. I'm deeply sorry for forgetting this yet again. I'm really going to have to roll up a grav/psi so my opinions will once more be valid.
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Hey I play a grav/psi!
Its actually not too bad, yet
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It might actually not be that bad, but it has the opposite reputation that Fire/Fire does.
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Just call me djimmi...or dj. Dom sounds so pretentious in casual conversation (the reason i've been considerin changin my forum name yet again!!!)
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Will keep that in mind.
You could be like me though and have mispelled your name in game due to a brain fart and had it follow over into the forum. Can't quite bring myself to reroll a lv 41 controller, or to make my names inconsistent.
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Some secondaries for controllers have holds.
Rad has an aoe hold, TA has a single target and aoe. All post 41 have access to powerboost instead of just 2 specifics.
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And I have 3 powers in my secondary that stun, 2 single-targets and 1 AoE.
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still wondering what you have to give up in APP's for the extra holds? is it in the set with the mez protection? or fireball?
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Primal Forces Mastery has Power Boost, and Stone has a very inconsistent AoE disorient/knockdown. That's all I can find. But they are mutually exclusive with Fireball and Mez Protection.
I'm glad that you've finally found the time to look at Dominators Positron, and thanks for posting here too.
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States plays a plant/psi Dom (I think), I don't know what level he is yet. Around the end of April, I started a Fire/Energy Dominator on Justice. I'm level 37 now.
Fun? You bet, and I've played all the AT's in both games at pretty much every level. Dominators are definitely my cup of tea.
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I too love Dominators (in case you hadn't noticed), and it's all because of Domination, I love the ups and downs. So please don't ever change that. There are already 11 other ATs for people who enjoy a more consistent play style. What would be really appreciated though is if missions, especially on large teams, were a little more variable in difficulty, so that Domination would be more useful.
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States and I -still- keep a close eye on Dominators. Datamining supports SOME of the claims made on these boards, but refutes others. Personal experience with the AT also lends credibility to some of the complaints, while showing others are simply blown out of porportion.
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I'd really love to hear what these are.
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I read a bunch of the posts in this thread, not all of them though (yet).
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Since I didn't post in this thread, I thought I'd mention that the latest revision of the issues list has some new stuff in it, and then there's my own opinion of Dominator Problems. Links in my sig.
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A lot of users hit the nail on the head when stating that you can't think of Dominator as "CoV's Controller". We went through a lot of effort to make sure that the ATs played and felt different between the two games. Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
Then of course there is the Domination ability, which is the real Jekyl and Hyde of the AT. A mild-manner Dominator with a full Domination bar can, at his or her discretion, become an unstoppable machine of destruction and control. While it never lasts "long enough" (even I am disappointed at hearing the sound effect of it wearing off), I've had missions where I have gotten Domination off four times from mission-entry to having Mission Complete appear on the screen. Good times indeed.
We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Thanks for this Positron, it's a step in the right direction, making Domination more effective when it's available. In the same vein, I'd suggest removing the emptying of the bar over time and upon (non-PvP) defeat. This would really help out Dominators in some of the worst situations, and won't improve them at their strongest. In effect, it reduces the difference between the weakest and strongest Dominators.
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Does it come with the purple triangles animation? 
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Out of curiosity, does this tweak include the ability to fire off domination when mezzed?
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Not initially, but the patch following should have it. I forget to stick that in on the original change, and QA helpfully pointed it out, but not in time to reach the version going out.
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Does it come with the purple triangles animation?
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LOL
It better.
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Ok after I've calmed myself down a bit, I'm wondering...
Mez resistance or mez protection?
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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.
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dominators are currently fine for pve. theyre great for teams, adding some damage and a good deal of aggro control when villain teams dont have primary aggro sponges like heroes do.
This change is an "i win -more-" as domination already made it so doms were pretty much an unstoppable force to begin with. nothing stands in the way of dominationed holds except AV's and those werent meant to be solo'ed anyways.
In fun/casual pvp in zones or with pick up arena teams, dominators are fine they way they are with a team as most players dont keep 20 breakfrees or have a pocket emp/thermal/sonic/poison on them at all times.
in competitive pvp, an abundance of mez protection renders even dominationed holds pretty much moot and the single target damage put out by a dominator is so sad compared to a corruptor's blasts. lets not even compare it to containment controller blasts or blaster blasts.
I'm glad that the devs are throwing doms a bone here, but please, devs, give people a reason to play a dom in all aspects of the game (pve, casual pvp and competitive pvp)
either give us a damage boost of some sort or holds that are impossible to get out of (ie: no amount of breakfrees after the 3rd hold). mez protection is the furthest buff id expect dominators to get.. Dr Jeckyll turns into Mr. Hyde.. not Dr. Jeckyll with the equivalent of 4 breakfrees + acrobatics.
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So where are the devs on this.
States in beta said he would be keeping a close eye on Dom's after all the Dom's are too weak calls.
Then they said in I7 they were still looking and here we are a month later and nothing said.
So where are the devs in all this, it seems like they really dont care much. Its like dom's dont have enough players to be worth spending time on.
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States plays a plant/psi Dom (I think), I don't know what level he is yet. Around the end of April, I started a Fire/Energy Dominator on Justice. I'm level 37 now.
Fun? You bet, and I've played all the AT's in both games at pretty much every level. Dominators are definitely my cup of tea.
States and I -still- keep a close eye on Dominators. Datamining supports SOME of the claims made on these boards, but refutes others. Personal experience with the AT also lends credibility to some of the complaints, while showing others are simply blown out of porportion.
I read a bunch of the posts in this thread, not all of them though (yet). A lot of users hit the nail on the head when stating that you can't think of Dominator as "CoV's Controller". We went through a lot of effort to make sure that the ATs played and felt different between the two games. Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
Then of course there is the Domination ability, which is the real Jekyl and Hyde of the AT. A mild-manner Dominator with a full Domination bar can, at his or her discretion, become an unstoppable machine of destruction and control. While it never lasts "long enough" (even I am disappointed at hearing the sound effect of it wearing off), I've had missions where I have gotten Domination off four times from mission-entry to having Mission Complete appear on the screen. Good times indeed.
We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Thanks for finally giving some feed back.
Though i will certian take and im sure love having some kinda of mezz protection, i did play mostly a blaster or other Squishies in COH and i am used to rolling with out it. But thanks all the same it does help level the playing feild somewhat.
Just wondering if we can hope to see anything else. The changes for PVP are lacking at best. Our HPs are normally way to low to survive in a direct fight long enough to build up Domination. And in normal Game play im finding my Grav/nrgy dom almost always out of end, even with DC, while my fire dom has consumption and rarely if ever uses it.
This is telling me there is a big difference in the effectivness of a dom based on damage. Fire being known for damage plays really to me well balanced. Sure i would like more damage, but for hold durations to damage to end consumption the pets at level 32 being damage dealers seem to really balance the sets out nicely.
However, in comparision my singularity doesnt seem to help much. Now sure he does help but being he has a wider arangment of abilities then fire monkeys, lets just say i dont count on him since i might want him to hold someone but he wants to immoblize that enemy, i still end up having to do it myself. While i want monkeys to kill someone i can turn my back on the enemy and know the monkeys are doing just that.
But over all i have to say the addition to damage the monkeys give to me is the difference. Its damage, things die faster i use less end. He still takes damage, he still dies from time to time, but atleast he dies fighting instead of having a Super Arachnoid to fight that has out lasted my Domination, dark consumption, and 7 catch a breaths, while i hope to live long enough to get domination going again, when i can only spam my hold to build it due to lack of energy. Once or twice i have even gone into "rest" right in front of these bosses, in order to try and get some end going and hoping i stacked enough holds he doesnt break out while im Immbl.
Over all mez protection is a great FIRST step. Now how about balancing some of that damage. Since you pointed to controllers, i have 2 level 50s and there not jealous at all of my domination since they get a larger damage buff from containment on basicly almost every target they fight.
Take the damage buff out of domination now and give it to us full time. Domination becomes a end recovery, mag/duration boost, and mez protection. Sure you can click domination 4 times a mission, however if you really want it when it counts you save it and use it once.
yeah. i hate how our attacks (and this goes for all AT's) do less than a blaster's, yet cost the exact same endurance. if you reduce the dmg, reduce the end costs too, to represent that we're going to have to use more attacks to kill something
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I read a bunch of the posts in this thread, not all of them though (yet). A lot of users hit the nail on the head when stating that you can't think of Dominator as "CoV's Controller". We went through a lot of effort to make sure that the ATs played and felt different between the two games. Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
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When I'm playing my dom, I feel much more like I'm playing a blaster than a controller.
I find that the need for situational awareness, combined with the need to carefully prioritize targeting and maintain a variety of "ready to go" attacks for general and specific threats makes this by far the most fun AT I've played in CoV.
The combination of low hit points and showstopping holds alongside some pretty decent damage is well done.
Thus far, this is the only AT in CoV that I actually get exicted when playing.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson