UnOfficial Cathedral of Pain Feedback
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2006-05-07 07:39 in Developers' Corner
I dont think that will be a major major issue as most of the people who run this are going to be 50's.
I know I wouldnt touch this before 50.
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I dont think that will be a major major issue as most of the people who run this are going to be 50's.
I know I wouldnt touch this before 50.
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...
Lag. Lag. And more lag. Lots of lag. I was getting lagged up the rear so badly it was like I was seeing my grandmothers lag.
Oh...did I mention the lag?
Yeah, I doubt it will matter as much but considering a group of level 40 villains (one being 41) just completed it, some will give it a shot and risk but just seems like maybe the debt could be cut down a little.
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no Pain no Gain 
The Cathedral of Pain sounds like it lives up to its name. 
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Yeah, I doubt it will matter as much but considering a group of level 40 villains (one being 41) just completed it, some will give it a shot and risk but just seems like maybe the debt could be cut down a little.
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Im not saying they can or cant do it.
But if something can only give you debt but no experiance, I dont see any point to do this on live at less than 50.
Test however is a different story.
Oh good job on the test today.
One thing, I wonder if the devs are going to pull a stupid and put this on live with I7. If they do even if villains do the trial they are just going to get their IOP's taken away by the first hero group to challenge them since they will be giving away 10 levels and Hami'os.
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no Pain no Gain
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bah 
Pain is getting wacked by eyeball bosses and wisp bosses at the same time
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Villains stand a good chance against Heroes. I've seen it first hand in base raids.
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We completed the trial two times hero-side yesterday, Once with around 15 people and once with around 10. One member of our group was level 49. During both times, a few deaths ensued, especially the second run during the AV room. About half of us face-planted in the first two minutes. I believe that the level 49 died three times throught the two runs. However, they also gained half a bar of xp for each.
We were all awarded prestige at the end of the trial, if we were in SG mode, and one person was awarded xp. He even joked that it would not be a bad way to level up a lowbie.
The trial was not too incredibly painful, I'd estimate we averaged about 40 minutes to complete each time. It was a lot of fun. The only problem we really experienced was crazy lag.
The first run we had 7 controllers, so we locked down that AV and killed it in about 30 seconds. Good times!
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Villains stand a good chance against Heroes. I've seen it first hand in base raids.
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yes but not when they are 10 levels behind and lacking hami'os
Also no one before this point has had to fight heros with Focused acc, FON, and a few other very strong APP powers.
I've been in a Base raid and at least with my group, it was way too one-sided. Even with the lack of 10 levels. Its possible, tougher but still possible.
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I should remind you all that it is laggy.
20-ish heroes, 15 minutes, first try.
It was really quite easy...we were basically zerging. Having the whole room aggro when you enter the boss room was the only slightly hard part.
I'm surprised that the two patches that made it harder the last time it was on test were basically reversed.
Well, some of the changes were reverted I noticed after a successful run earlier. The obelisks dont repair upon "death".
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I was part of Fashion's successful run.
I think I got something like 150k debt relief for taking down Rularuu on a level 50 controller and then another 32k for completing the trial. That sounds like a ton of XP for someone not 50.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Cathedral-farming for fun-and-profit, huh?
Sounds like the quiet-PL-workaround that dedicated PL-advocates keep searching for.
Moreover, not as much need to spam for bridges or pads or whatnot -- seeing as how just being able to access the thing is predicated on having at least a moderately-sized SG, and that despite having been made easier since the last testing iteration, still requires substantial team effort from most of the teammembers.
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I was part of Fashion's successful run.
I think I got something like 150k debt relief for taking down Rularuu on a level 50 controller
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57k for Electron Girl.
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I was part of Fashion's successful run.
I think I got something like 150k debt relief for taking down Rularuu on a level 50 controller
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57k for Electron Girl.
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You might be right, I think I imagined a 1 in front of there.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
When I ran it with a group for the 3rd time, I faceplanted twice ... at the end of the trial, my entire amount of debt was wiped (little under 200k) ...
CHAMPION!
Sounds like it's too easy for y'all.
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Sounds like it's too easy for y'all.
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Frankly, having tested each incarnation of the Cathedral -- the previous "tough" version seemed like it might be a little bit of a problem, at least at the outset, for even a moderately-sized (say, 12-24 players of moderate playtime) SG.
While I suspect that we're going to see complaints in both directions about this current incarnation of Cathedral (somehow, it's simultaneously too easy and too tough, depending on who you ask), I have little doubt that many more SGs should be capable of completing Cathedral without resorting to extravagant measures.
If the Cathedral were set too hard, how does it help spur the Base Raid PvP mechanic if only a small handful of SGs were capable of completing the Trial on the smaller-to-medium population servers?
The Cathedral should present challenge, yes. But since it forms the basis for additional layers of content, it should also be reasonably accessible to enough SGs to foment the Base Raid system -- which is ostensibly its very purpose, after all.
So what are the changes now? The previous one really kicked your butt if you weren't an expert, but it sounds like:
1. You can take down each obelisk in turn instead of trying to take them down simultaniously. (That'd make the first part trivially easy)
2. You don't have to take down the shield on Ruladek (Aspect of Rularuu), that'd also make the second part fairly easy.
If this is correct, we might be seeing a lot of IoPs on Live, depending on how scheduled raids turn out once they're fixed.
We didn't have to take down the 3 obelisks within 60 seconds of each other - after being destroyed I didn't see them come back. It seemed like the willforge respawns were slower or different - in the hardest version, there seemed to be a secret 45-second timer that replaced any missing mobs, making it relatively difficult to get more than 10 seconds of the obelisk shield being down.
Inside, the AV's shield was working fine but we zerged the willforge spawns and it seemed like they eventually just stopped respawning. Once the AV's shield was down we had him dead very quickly because of stacked debuffs.
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1. You can take down each obelisk in turn instead of trying to take them down simultaniously. (That'd make the first part trivially easy)
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Yup, that appears to be the case at the moment - I'd like to see the simultaneous element back as it does provide a nice challenge, however I'm not sure how close to each other they needed to be destroyed before - but I think 2 minutes would be a good number to aim for.
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2. You don't have to take down the shield on Ruladek (Aspect of Rularuu), that'd also make the second part fairly easy.
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Nope you still need to take down the shield - but when you first enter his lair, all the mobs (and the AV) seem to move to engage you (at least they did for both run-throughs I have done this time around). So if you can survive the onslaught of 3 groups of Rularuu plus the Aspect, and destroy those mobs to make the AV vulnerable, you can take him down pretty easily straight away - this is what we were able to do as a full-size party of Heroes when I did it.
However all those Rularuu can be a bit of a handful, and with floored framerates from all the MM's we had, our full-size party of villains were initially overwhelmed and we had to re-group. When we re-entered the lair the remaining mobs were back at their respective cubes and remained there, with the AV in the middle. A decent sized trial party (like ours was) can take out the mobs in his lair, cube-by-cube, quick enough so his shield drops and can defeat him before the cubes began to respawn.
I think the lair section isn't too bad at the moment - however he does go down very quickly with a full-sized trial party. I wouldn't want him to be buffed too much if it made taking him down too difficult for smaller sized trial parties though.
I dont see a thread for any feedback about the CoP trial
But just some general suggestions/ideas if needed.
My main gripe with it is that you get no XP/inf/prestige but you get debt. I can see why this is needed to balance out the challenge but is it possible to either eliminate the debt or put it at 1/8 of what it is right now for this trial only?
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