UnOfficial Cathedral of Pain Feedback
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2006-05-07 07:39 in Developers' Corner
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Wait, what's the reasoning for disallowing xp gain during the trial? Would it be abusive in some way? How?
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Most infinite spawning mechanisms produce creatures that don't give XP. (See: CoT portals, BP summoning Shamans, and Infernals Lair mission)
As for why people would do this: If it can be done by a good team of 8 for the first two IoP's then it's not exactly the debt capping experience you are making it out to be. And, at mission complete, you not only get quite a bit of xp/debt relief you also get an item of power. This opens up more content for those that chose to participate in it. Now you're able to be raided, and all that prestige you earned and salvage ---> Base defenses finally have a use. You also have a chance of getting a rare Item of Power. While the common ones have buffs of 1%, there are 3 (server wide) rare ones. One in particular, 'The True Furnace' gives everyone in your SG +5 end points and adds a million power to your base. Having one of these IS a substantial improvement to your SG. And finally, the game is adding a bit of end-game content. Something the masses have been calling for since release. So really there are plenty of reasons to do this trial, especially now that debt has been made trivial.
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Now you're able to be raided
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Actually now you're Forced to be raided 
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And finally, the game is adding a bit of end-game content. Something the masses have been calling for since release.
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Actually aside from that one trial there's nothing else added to it. I mean PvP is a game mechanic and the bases are a tool for utilizing that they themselves aren't "content" in the sense that people have been asking for content as in missions, TFs, trials, etc for their 50s...
Oh and has this even gone active on live once yet? If not that's kinda bad, 7 months or so and one of the main reasons for having/maintaining a base hasn't even been made available...
Here is a question.. How many IOP are there per server? From what I understand there is only a few!! So what happens to the COP when they are all taken?
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Here is a question.. How many IOP are there per server? From what I understand there is only a few!! So what happens to the COP when they are all taken?
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There are an unlimited number of IoP per server.
There are a few unique ones that only exist once per server, but there are other generic (less powerful) ones with no limit.
And how do you get the the unique ones? what 1s are they or where can i find out?
It's believed to be random, all luck as to which one you get, but i wouldn't be surprised if changing the Trial's difficulty level and the number of people you have with you would change your chances of getting a better IoP, as well as the time you complete it in...
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Actually aside from that one trial there's nothing else added to it. I mean PvP is a game mechanic and the bases are a tool for utilizing that they themselves aren't "content" in the sense that people have been asking for content as in missions, TFs, trials, etc for their 50s...
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While I, myself, consider bases and baseraids content, I think Shak meant specifically the Cathedral trial is new content.
It certainly is. And it's exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for for months: a mid-size raid that can be done with more than just 8 people. It means that the tech is in place to have similiar "raids" in the future and maybe even a possible instanced Hamidon-like encounter.
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Just double checking, is this indeed inactive now for everyone, including those who had been able to run it a few days ago? Sorry to ask again, just wanted to be positive it wasn't just me
Where can we find more info about these rare IoPs?
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The week I prayed to God/Jesus I got 3 out of 10 prayers answered. The week I prayed to Captain Spock I got 6 out of 10. I'm gonna keep praying to Spock, he's more efficient.
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An overstatement -- you fail to qualify the fact that such content is gated on resource-acquisition: Prestige.
Having Cathedral open Live with CoV launch would be mostly useless -- it would not be possible for most any VG to even be able to attain a Base worthy of firing up Cathedral.
Moreover, since the final Raid mechanic is essentially PvP-centric, the level inequity between Heroes and Villains prior to I7 further suggests that having Base Raids active before Villains reach L50 substantially impairs their ability to successfully defend or launch a Raid.
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It's believed to be random, all luck as to which one you get, but i wouldn't be surprised if changing the Trial's difficulty level and the number of people you have with you would change your chances of getting a better IoP, as well as the time you complete it in...
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Hrm. Granted, it's all conjectural -- but I'm not convinced of this. We know that larger, more PvP-oriented SGs will probably be more likely to attain multiple IoPs, by virtue of having greater Prestige acquisition capacity for a larger base, and being able to more reliably complete Cathedral multiple times (especially if the scaling difficulty is dependent on number of IoPs, as current testing suggests).
It seems to me like they don't really need more of a chance to shut smaller SGs out of the possibility of attaining the rare IoPs.
On on hand, we know that the base raid mechanism will only allow SGs to raid upwards -- that is, raid other SGs who own a greater number of IoPs. In that sense, raiding will be gated to prevent large SGs from hoarding IoPs by virtue of continually harassing smaller, probably poorer-equipped SGs.
If a large SG wants to hoard IoPs, then it'll be incumbent upon them to defeat Cathedral reliably (possibly another reason for the scaling difficulty on Cathedral) as well as be on perma-defense from other SGs.
are there any screenies anywhere of the CoP?
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are there any screenies anywhere of the CoP?
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After looking through my screenshot folder, I'm afraid not. Too busy running for my life, dontcha know.
Oh, and as for the Final Room -- the Cathedral, I'd imagine -- it's pretty much the final AV room for the Faathim TF, IIRC.
Frank Gehry only has so many original ideas.
I know there are 8 or 9 different IOPs ... what happens when there are 60 supergroups doing the trial all at the same time (yes i am exaggerating, but it is entirely possible) and everyone completes it ... does this mean that all those SGs will actually get an IOP, or will it be first come first serve ... the rest get booted back to their base ...
And another thing, can someone explain the mechanics behind raid scheduling for IOPs ? like how many times can you be raided per day/week, and how often (IF you can defend yourself that is) ...
CHAMPION!
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I know there are 8 or 9 different IOPs ... what happens when there are 60 supergroups doing the trial all at the same time (yes i am exaggerating, but it is entirely possible) and everyone completes it ... does this mean that all those SGs will actually get an IOP, or will it be first come first serve ... the rest get booted back to their base ...
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This we can address.
Everyone who completes Cathedral should get some form of IoP. The Common IoPs are unlimited in number. They should be available for as many SGs complete the Trial, and have space to store them.
However, the Uncommon and Rare IoPs (we have some indication that there are actually three tiers of IoP) are limited in number by server. It may be possible that high-pop servers like Freedom may see greater competition for a small pool of Uncommons and Rares. It may also be possible that those high-pop servers will actually have more Uncommons and Rares in circulation, so the relative competition will not necessarily be greater than lower-pop servers.
This is all very black box territory -- a great many variables, no small part of which depends on player behaviors and desires. We know that there are a lot of SGs -- even on the lower-pop servers, that are capable of running Cathedral. We don't know how many of them actually have a legitimate interest in running it though, or running it on a semi-regular basis.
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And another thing, can someone explain the mechanics behind raid scheduling for IOPs ? like how many times can you be raided per day/week, and how often (IF you can defend yourself that is) ...
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From the Base Building/Raiding/Prestige FAQ, we seem to have indication that your SG will need to define a 3 hour window during which you are raidable per week. You pick the hours, but depending on who fires up an assualt, your base might get picked.
Mind you, we have even less testing of scheduled raids -- mostly because that content is gated on the IoP trial.
I saw bridger mentioned this on the UK boards in patch notes:
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Please also note that the Cathedral of Pain trial has been switched off, pending some upcoming changes.
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So it seems we may get another patch soon to make it more difficult again? We'll have to see what happens...
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Actually aside from that one trial there's nothing else added to it. I mean PvP is a game mechanic and the bases are a tool for utilizing that they themselves aren't "content" in the sense that people have been asking for content as in missions, TFs, trials, etc for their 50s...
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While I, myself, consider bases and baseraids content, I think Shak meant specifically the Cathedral trial is new content.
It certainly is. And it's exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for for months: a mid-size raid that can be done with more than just 8 people. It means that the tech is in place to have similiar "raids" in the future and maybe even a possible instanced Hamidon-like encounter.
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I'll respectfully have to disagree.
While it is new content in that a new instance has been created with mission type content and rewards, it has forced PvP content installed along with it.
This alone makes it an unwelcome addition to the game.
I can definitely state that without even have seen the Cathedral of Pain content or the Items of Power, my supergroup and villain group will be disregarding it since we have no wish of having our base trashed.
I'd like to have new high-level content that doesn't put my and my teammates possessions at risk, thank you.
Kudos to the Devs though for the hard work and the intention.
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Actually aside from that one trial there's nothing else added to it. I mean PvP is a game mechanic and the bases are a tool for utilizing that they themselves aren't "content" in the sense that people have been asking for content as in missions, TFs, trials, etc for their 50s...
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While I, myself, consider bases and baseraids content, I think Shak meant specifically the Cathedral trial is new content.
It certainly is. And it's exactly what a lot of people have been clamoring for for months: a mid-size raid that can be done with more than just 8 people. It means that the tech is in place to have similiar "raids" in the future and maybe even a possible instanced Hamidon-like encounter.
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I'll respectfully have to disagree.
While it is new content in that a new instance has been created with mission type content and rewards, it has forced PvP content installed along with it.
This alone makes it an unwelcome addition to the game.
I can definitely state that without even have seen the Cathedral of Pain content or the Items of Power, my supergroup and villain group will be disregarding it since we have no wish of having our base trashed.
I'd like to have new high-level content that doesn't put my and my teammates possessions at risk, thank you.
Kudos to the Devs though for the hard work and the intention.
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With the tech I hope they actually go back to Making the Faultline trial . . .
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Did you guys get a badge upon completion?
Nope no badge from either the hero or villain run through I've done.
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While it is new content in that a new instance has been created with mission type content and rewards, it has forced PvP content installed along with it.
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That's not how it works at all. There are no mission type rewards - you don't get XP for the mobs, and you only get some at the end.
Also, the whole point of the trial is to enable base raid PvP. That is what it is for. The PvP aspect isn't tacked on or 'forced', it's the trial's raison d'etre.
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Please also note that the Cathedral of Pain trial has been switched off, pending some upcoming changes.
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So it seems we may get another patch soon to make it more difficult again? We'll have to see what happens...
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Interesting, interesting.
I think maybe you jump the gun to presume that it's all going to get more difficult.
From our testing, I can only preliminarily conclude that the difficulty of Cathedral increases the more IoPs you have. This makes teleologic sense to allow smaller, poorer (in Prestige terms) SGs the ability to more easily acquire a couple of IoPs -- whereas larger, better equipped SGs will have to work harder to earn >2 IoPs.
Our dataset is relatively limited thus far (only two different groups are reporting this in this thread at present), so we can't really consider those conclusions to be wholly validated just yet.
Let's mull the possibilities (not all of which are mutually exclusive) from our testing, posted in detail upthread:
1) The ability to asynchronously defeat Obelisks, one of the most widely reported changes in the most recent testing cycle, is not intended.
2) The increased time between Willforge spawns in the Main Room during our first two (successful) attempts are not intended.
3) The rapid respawns on the Willforge seen in the Main Room during our third (unsuccessful) attempt is not intended.
4) Aspect's ability to attack from behind his Unaffected cloak may be unintended, although we see several examples of this already in-game.
5) The scatter-aggro effects seen in our second and third attempts are not intended.
6) The near-instant aggro upon entering the Main Room during our first attempt is not intended.
7) The ability of Willforge spawns to follow players out of the Main Room is not intended.
There are plenty more, but I think you get the jist -- that the most recent cycle of Cathedral testing has been been providing hard-to-explain, often incongruous and contradictory results. At present, the scaling difficulty theory is the best explanation to reconcile these issues teleologically.
However, with very limited testing data -- it's difficult to claim these as definitive conclusions.
My suspicion is that if the scaling difficulty theory is correct, then the changes Bridger is posting about may not be so easily defined as increasing or decreasing the difficulty of Cathedral. It may be a matter of increasing the difficulty toward the low-end, decreasing the difficulty of the high-end, or fixing unintended bugs irrespective of difficulty. Again, these possibilities are not mutually exclusive.
I dont recall saying it will all get more difficult. Point me to it. I was only thinking they were going to make it more difficult again since it just seemed obvious upon first reading it.
I wasn't trying to think thats all that was coming. It was only 1 idea since it was first to mind. I didnt get time to figure out all the little bugs with it at hte moment.
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Did you guys get a badge upon completion?
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There is a badge made for the trial, though it is not rewarding. I'd keep /bugging it in-game when the trial is back online until we get an official Positron or redname response as to whether the badge has been scrapped or not.
And I'm not going to continue the stupid mixing of words about whether or not IoP trials are content or not. If people don't like PvP, good for them. But to continue to invalidate all PvP content just because they don't want to be part of it? That's a little selfish and unnecessary. I don't like costume contents. So I don't take part in them. But I don't run to the forums screaming about how they aren't content simply because I don't like them.
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Wait, what's the reasoning for disallowing xp gain during the trial? Would it be abusive in some way? How?
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The Rularuu Spawn Boxes would then become the new CoT Portals everyone used to farm.
Yes, Rularuu are tough. Yes, people don't usually like to fight them. But since you have spawn points that would non-stop spawn them for you for a whole hour (which you can then go back and retake the mission), people would do it. And since you could get 24 people in there, it'd be even worse than Portalfarming was in the past.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast