Freeze_Frame

This is another problem I hadnt considered.

Even though I had been heavily bashing traps for the same reason, its great as a MM power, but lacking for a corruptor because of long animation.

I just started my thugs/ta test and i was having no troubles, but testing my TA/arch I was still having as much trouble.

This set is going to be a problem for the devs for a long time.

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also single target immobs really do nothing for survivability, and dont nearly compare to the other level 1 powers.

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Excuse me? A single target immob is perfect for keeping heavy hitting melee and short range attackers away (shotguns, flamethrowers, etc). I learned that trick early on when I could take out a Hellion Buckshot without taking any damage by keeping him from getting too close. Staying out of range of mobs helps keep my defender alive a lot longer.

A TA defender doesn't play the same as other defenders. It's a whole different game and if you don't learn how to play you'll never be satisfied with it

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I have a 25 TA/arc, I know what it can and cant do. Single target immobs are widely considered borderline worthless. And certainly doesnt help as much as an aoe heal which kin, rad and dark all have.

Now Im not saying we need a heal, but we need something better than this. Even controllers consider the single target immobs throw aways and those do damage.

TA has no heal or team buff, it needs to be alot better than any other set at debuffing, but both rad and dark outdebuff it. And they not only have a heal, and red, but rad has a buff too. Heck rad even has a aoe hold same as TA. And the best team buff in the game, a acc debuff thats incredible a great slow, and an awesome res debuff.

TA just isnt comparing. And I really think the fault lies in a few key low level junk powers flash arrow, entangling arrow.

I hate to bring this up, but low level TA still seems a little lacking. Flash arrow and entangling arrow seem to be the culprits, Flash arrow doesnt seem to do enough for low level survival, Its acc debuff is just too small, also single target immobs really do nothing for survivability, and dont nearly compare to the other level 1 powers.

For a set thats all debuff and no heal or buff, it better be the best, but its not, rad and dark outperform it without the limitations.

Also disruption arrow compares very poorly to tar patch, tar patch has higher res debuff, lower tier, shorter recharge, added slow. Its not remotly close to being fair. Disruption arrow needs a secondary. Remember TA is a pure debuff, it just cant be even to other sets in debuff, it has to be better, or it will continue to go unplayed.

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Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:

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Have you *tried* it yet?

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I think what fifteen is saying is that the reduction is nice and even a welcomed change, but a efw more tweeks would be nice.

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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.

One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.

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Villains stand a good chance against Heroes. I've seen it first hand in base raids.

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yes but not when they are 10 levels behind and lacking hami'os

Also no one before this point has had to fight heros with Focused acc, FON, and a few other very strong APP powers.

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Yeah, I doubt it will matter as much but considering a group of level 40 villains (one being 41) just completed it, some will give it a shot and risk but just seems like maybe the debt could be cut down a little.

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Im not saying they can or cant do it.

But if something can only give you debt but no experiance, I dont see any point to do this on live at less than 50.

Test however is a different story.

Oh good job on the test today.

One thing, I wonder if the devs are going to pull a stupid and put this on live with I7. If they do even if villains do the trial they are just going to get their IOP's taken away by the first hero group to challenge them since they will be giving away 10 levels and Hami'os.

I dont think that will be a major major issue as most of the people who run this are going to be 50's.

I know I wouldnt touch this before 50.

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Rather than 67845302948 more people posting, "Hey, this set doesn't have KB protection" can we have some posts with either: Some suggestions about which powers to change/add/subtract

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No, no. I tried that. People were too busy calling each other poopy-heads and repeating what everyone knew and arguing over which side was more immature and demanding to actually read it, though.

Of course, I also didn't suggest adding KB protection, so it'll probably do nothing for anyone even if they do read it, because after all (fire) a set with no KB protection (dark) is utterly worthless (Power Surge).

That having been said, I agree with whomever said that Lightning Reflexes really ought to provide Immob protection, both for thematic reasons and because of all sets to not include it, this one is one of the odder ones.

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Thats because players are sick of sets without knockback protection.

Its gotten old really old, a set with no knockback protection and no self heal is just plain silly.

Too many holes unless you strap a kin to your tuckus.

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I think these two changes would fix Dominators:

1) The Domination bar does not decrease unless you are defeated, leave the game, activate Domination, or 10 minutes pass without you attacking a target.

2) While the Domination bar is ready (and you are sparkling), you receive a buff of +5% to base Defense and all Damage Resistance, and a +1 to Magnitude versus all Mezzes. This bonus is lost when Domination is activated.

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I can't say this would meaningfully change my experience as a Dominator at all. As much as people seem to like to "think small" to make their suggestions seem reasonable, people suggesting things like "5% damage increases," or "5% defense bonuses," are failing to realize that if there actually IS an issue, miniscule changes aren't going to make up for it. +5% defense wouldn't even be noticable, certainly not worth NOT using Domination for, and I can't say I have a problem with Domination Decay at all. And if there isn't a problem, we don't need these things in the first place.

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10% damage and blaster hp would help alot, and would not overbalance the class.

It also wouldnt hurt things if containment was cut to 75% in pve and 150% in pvp and duration on aoe holds was increased by 25-50%

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let me see

controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment

doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time

hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers

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controllers get strong holds
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get low-medium dmg with containment

doms get moderate holds
doms get medium-high dmg


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Containment is an abomination that shouldn't exist. Critical Holds are all the inherent Controllers need. Not doing meaningful levels of damage is the logical result of not having a damage set. Each time I take a 400 damage blast to the face from a Controller on test, my opinion on this is reinforced.

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The reason the devs put containtment is the only ones who really played controllers where those that had them powerleveled. Since no one wanted to suffer through 32 levels of boring suckage.

Containment is/was needed.

on the other hand it might be set too high in pvp.

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I don't mind the lack of KB/Immob protect... As far as I know, this is the only set in the ENTIRE GAME that gets psionic resistance (not defense) (I don't play/know dark well, so whatever) I'm MORE than happy to take the loss of some non-toggle-dropping mez protections in exchange for Psi Resistance.... Especially once I start facing carnies, longbow wardens, arachnos taranchulas, Mu anythings, etc... You get the idea. Psi is MUCH more common in the CoV world in a regularly-seen mob to regularly-seen mob basis than in the CoH world.

I say Awesome set! keep em coming, devs!

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Any Dark Armor and Dark Miasma has Psionic resists available to them. Additionally Defenders and Controllers can get armors through APP that have Psi Resists. And does the /Ninjustu mez click not give Psionic resist as well? Please don't say ENTIRE GAME and then mention that you don't know, misinformed people cause hysteria

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Also considering at least 1/2 of all masterminds are dark, psi resistance is usually not a problem.

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Now that people are testing the set, people should shut up about KB protection because they talked about it before.

Do I have the sequence of events down properly?

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Yeah, that's about right. Shut the hell up about knockback, everyone knows it, it's in and it's news to nobody at all. Might as well complain about Fire and Dark not having knockback protection.

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This is the only set without knockback and! without heal.

Too many holes, one or the other needs plugging.

I can easily beat even up to 5 or 6 minions without domination if Im using my plant dominator. Its actually downright easy if I have hasten active at the time.

Seeds the pack, hold anything thats still firing and pick em off, rinse and repeat.

Doesnt work so well if you dont have seeds because the aoe holds wear off 2 seconds after the animation finnishes. if any even hit, and then you still have an eternity to wait before they are recharged.

Immobs kill you, sleeps are worthless and many sets dont have em, that usually means you hold one mob and try to kill the rest before you die, which even if you win often leaves you low on health and end. No self heals, no sheilds, low hp, low damage.

Im not seeing how dominators are supposed to be functioning if you arent chucking seeds at every pack or running domination.

I really dont like hotfeet on a dominator, its damage is well.... lacking unless you are under domination.

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I have a ton of lowbie Dominators and none of them have any trouble soloing white cons. It makes me wonder what powers he took and how he slotted them.

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I have NO trouble soloing 3 white cons with my 14 plant/ice. I have alot of trouble soloing 3 white cons with my 20 fire/fire.

Its not build, I have played a fire controller and corruptor. I know how to slot. The holds just dont last long enough for the damage to kill them. The aoe holds are worhtless, they expire before the animation finnishes.

Fire breath is good, but its like the only good attack and it eats endurance. Even if I should win, I have to rest back my endurance since I needed to use an excessive amount of attacks to kill them. ANd this is with fire with its very short animation times too.

Either Dominators need an endurance cut or a damage boost, even if we have to give something up in domination.

They were padding the sets.

They cant take the set away, thats the one suggestion I know is completly impossible. I also suspect they arent going to run two sets of numbers.

Taking the sets away would leave them with an amazingly bad grandfather problem.

They just need to be convinced that Defenders primary is more important than controller or MM secondary.

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just put him on ignore, problem solved

i agree with whoever posted a few posts up about changing our primaries to actually be better dominators

im fine with our medium dmg, but we need to actually be good at dominating stuff

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I would be cool with a control or damage boost.

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TA is going in the right direction, but it still needs a little more work.

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I disagree. Trying to shoehorn a Controller Primary into a Defender Primary is very difficult, if not outright insanity.

While I appreciate that the "pairing" of Trick Arrow and Archery neccessitated making it a Defender power-set, that doesn't mean that the core set design (which is good) "fits" the Defender AT.

The best solution that I can see is to buff the set more, and then deny it to Controllers... sort of how Dark Miasma works now.

The whole concept of "Blast Set must be paired with Control set" is the source of the evil, though, and until that idea is exposed as problem-causing, everything else is a band-aid.

Ideally, Trick Arrow would be re-named and the powers recycled into a Controller Primary set, and the current animations would be re-used for an entirely new Defender set. I don't see that as likely, though.

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Cant do that, since there are already controllers out there with TA.

They would have to implement powerset respecs first and that would still leave grandfathered controllers out there that still have it.

No it needs defender improvement badly even if it overpushes controllers and MM's into uber.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.

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And why do you think it is necessary to "flame" someone merely for expressing an opinion that may differ slightly from yours?

FivefifteenA

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The reason we are not pulling together is no one can aggree what is wrong with dom's why?

Ask a plant dom and you get nothing is wrong, unless they forgot to take seeds or something silly like that.

Ask someone with psi and you will probably hear low damage.

Ask someone without hasten and most likely you will get too slow to build domination.

Ask someone who sits on domination waiting for a crisis and you will get domination not up often enough, or we suck when domination isnt up.

Dominators need to be completly analyzed by the devs and they need to run the numbers and see whats wrong. Only problem i can see is, they might see plant as good enough and leave everyone else in gimpitude.

What happens is the mobs stay deaggroed after its applied, but when someone strikes them, they "remember" who debuffed and pound you into dust despites attempts to get them off.

Contrary to what some reports say a direct taunt application will pull them off, but punchvoke doesnt always get them to deaggro and normal attacks dont even make them look away.

Besides that a deaggro power with such a low acc debuff is just too weak for a bread and butter power. The low powers are supposed to be the ones that carry you, not throw aways you have to take.

Single target immobs have never even been considered in the realm of good power, its not bad as a secondary as in traps and devices, but for a primary, its just awful!!

What it comes down to in the fullness of everything, its just not as good as dark or rad at debuffing and both of those sets have other things going for it.

Also oil slick the great equalizer supposedly cant be used if you pick the wrong powerset to combine it with, this is poor design.
Its the same problem with fiery embrace for tanks, if you didnt pick the "RIGHT" powerset, it doesnt do anything for you.

TA is going in the right direction, but it still needs a little more work.

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This was the problem with low level controllers, they stunk to high heaven till post 32. This was considered contrary to fun gameplay so they got containment in exchange for the cut to aoe holds.

Dom's are in the controllers old boat. They stink till the mid 30's.

The problem is they are too dependant on domination and too weak when not using it, they need to be balanced out more.

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The devs built us with post-containment Controllers in their minds. But since we didn't get containment, nothing really made us overpowered.

If we aren't going to get mez protection, the very least we need is just-below Corr damage, more HP and high control to balance that out. And the band-aid that is Domination shouldn't have to be that balancing factor.

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Something needs to be done, dominator population is low and sinking. Even with the changes dominators are still little more than fodder in pvp.

And no one has ever accused a dominator of being good in pve. Except for plant.. but that doesnt make up for the rest of the sets not performing and even plant is all because of seeds.

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Why do you feel compeled to be consistently rude, Vidszhite??
I think many of you are focusing on pvp and neglecting Pve in some respects. Domi's are a support AT y'all. Yes, a bit underpowered but I played today for about 6 hours using 3 different lvl 40 dom's. Overall, if this is what we get it's better than what we had before unless you live to pvp.

Saddens me to read that people are going to abandon their dom's because they are unhappy with the changes.
Ironically ? Noone whohas posted that sentiment has a dom over lvl 37. Guess what?
Sometimes things take work. The dev's are on the right track. Personally, I think the changes made dom's easily more soloable.It's all in what you want guys and up to now according to you it's all DOOOOOM!.
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY A DOM
THEN DON'T PLAY ONE.
Thank you to all of the people actively testing and posting in this thread. You know who you are aside from all the naysayers and doombringers.
On a testing note? Did anyone notice that dom once built but not yet activated has a longer sustainable duration?By that I mean i can build my dom to an arbitrary %, Ill say 70, and hold it there much longer than in 6. Yes it still drops a little but overall its much easier to put domination on 'hold". Easily long enough for an mm to set up or what have you. That was a complaint said again and again in these forums.
Again?Kudo's to all of you who are willing to stick it out and continue to try to find the rays of sunshine amidst the storm clouds

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This was the problem with low level controllers, they stunk to high heaven till post 32. This was considered contrary to fun gameplay so they got containment in exchange for the cut to aoe holds.

Dom's are in the controllers old boat. They stink till the mid 30's.

The problem is they are too dependant on domination and too weak when not using it, they need to be balanced out more.

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I guess if you never play anything but tanks an maybe scrappers you see these as holes...

I'm mostly Defenders an Corruptors...these are pretty normal for me. Though I could swear I saw a power listing Immob Res...

No Knockback? No problem. I PvP a fair bit nowadays and in both PvP and PvE I get hit alot since Sleet an Blizz tend to piss everything off...On my corruptor I almost never get knockback...

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You play mostly ranged ATs, so if you get knocked back you can just blast them. Meleers, when knocked back, have to get up and run back to the target to hit them back. That kind of frustration adds up really quick.

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As well as the fact the knockback hinders Fury buildup.

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They got rid of the entire Ice sets because it ran contrary to fury build up, I really dont understand this.

Dark armour might be good enough that its worth it, even with the holes, because dark regen is that good.

Fire isnt since burn went subpar

Elec isnt, quickness is good, its not that good.

As it stand now, what going to happen is anyone who doesnt take leaping is going to be holding up teams waiting for their tier 9 to take on hard packs.. we all know how much teams like being held up waiting for a power recharge.

My initial impression is the set still underperforms.

Especially at low levels.

A single target immob, a acc debuff without enough debuff does not do enough to keep a defender alive nor provide enough benefit.

The set is better at high levels but at low levels its still bad.

Flash arrow needs its debuff doubled

Acid arrow needs a bigger aoe

Disruption arrow, might need more effect, its still way outdone by tar patch.

Poison gas arrow still seems lacking...

Its a great set for controllers, a playable set for MM's, but its still way outperformed by dark, rad and storm.

Possibly needs buffs for defenders only.