Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
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I suppose that's the lovely irony. After the devs made initial sets too powerful, and needed to scale them back (aka "nerf"), folks kept suggesting that they make the sets weaker to start with, and buff them as needed.
And when it looks like they're doing that... folks complain that the new sets just aren't powerful enough. You just can't make 'em all happy... 
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Well, there's a huge difference between doing five under the limit and doing 20 under. There's cautious and there's ridiculous. Electric Melee falls into the later category if the Devs didn't want it to be overpowered on launch.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that the Devs have deliberately set all the new powers in I7, including the PPPs to "Craptacular" just so they can ease up to balanced rather than having to nerf anything to balance it like it should be.
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According to them, yes. I know a few of the other devs have stated it concerning other powers, previously, but the most recent was the bane of my Stalker existence (oddly enough) speaking on Gauntlet.
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We're testing this. We don't want to go overboard on it, then have to reduce its effectiveness later, which is a very real concern with this. This lead us to start off low, and build up from there. What you folks are testing currently is the 'second draft' of PvP Gauntlet.
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Post
So, yes. They're probably doing this with the new sets and whatnot. Probably. One can't say for sure.
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I don't really expect them to make the Holds or Immoblizes any stronger or else they would be too much in PvE. Same with the shields. The ranged attacks, maybe, but I doubt it. But in the end, you still have nothing comparable to sets people want:
Force Mastery
Psionic mastery
Power Mastery
Body Mastery
You notice this is 1 Pool per AT from the hero side that people tend to go for. With the exception of Cold Mastery for Hibernate that I left off. But people can still "choose" from the other different APPs without having sets from patrons that are essentially all the same.
I actually think that Electric Melee set is alright with the exception of Chain Induction's no exp for acr kills/hits and the 3 minute recharge on Lightning Rod. It gets hard to get a good attach chain goiong with just the Electric Melee set powers and would rely on AirSup and Boxing or other commonly picked attacks from the Power Pools to fill in more.
I think that Charged Brawl, Havok Punch, Jacob's Ladder, and Thunder Strike do decent damage with the training enhancements I had in them.
Yea, the Jacob's Ladder cone is small, but I did manage to get 2 mobs a few times with it. Mostly as they ran at me and were in a line.
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I actually think that Electric Melee set is alright with the exception of Chain Induction's no exp for acr kills/hits and the 3 minute recharge on Lightning Rod. It gets hard to get a good attach chain goiong with just the Electric Melee set powers and would rely on AirSup and Boxing or other commonly picked attacks from the Power Pools to fill in more.
I think that Charged Brawl, Havok Punch, Jacob's Ladder, and Thunder Strike do decent damage with the training enhancements I had in them.
Yea, the Jacob's Ladder cone is small, but I did manage to get 2 mobs a few times with it. Mostly as they ran at me and were in a line.
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I've been practicing herding groups of 6 -1's together, and with Jacob's Ladder I've gotten up to 3 at one time. This is with strictly TO End Mods on it as well.
I'd almost plea to the devs that they take a deeper look at the end drain component of the powers. There is more than one way to damage a mob, and I think it would be startlingly more devastating with End drain. After all, you can't pop dull pain too terribly often if you don't have enough end for your shields, attacks, and then heals. And most folks only keep 3 - 4 blues handy (they stack a whole bunch of BFs and Greens tho)
This aside, I have a question about Lrod for those whove gotten it.
Is this a targeted power or do you use the glowing circle to activate?
Circle. Ground-only.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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And when it looks like they're doing that... folks complain that the new sets just aren't powerful enough. You just can't make 'em all happy...
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What made people unhappy the fact that it appeared that the Devs were not paying attention to the thread (lack of redname posts until just today).
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And, lest folks think that the devs were simply ignoring posts, remember that I-7 was released on test right before E-3. Traditionally, the devs have been fairly silent the week before and of E-3 since they've generally got tons of other work to do to get ready. I have little doubt they've still been reading the forums, but taking the time for meaningful replies is probably not on the schedule. With E-3 done, we should see a bit more activity.
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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".
Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.
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Generally - if there hasn't been a coment, don't assume anything.
One of the Devs' greatest strenghts is also one of their bigger weak spots. They are great at telling the player base what they have decided. The flip side is they do tend to say nothing if they have not decided anything.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I warned everyone that Elec Melee was going to suck.
Elec Armor however.. is a swiss army knife... If you can't take advantage of the fact it has almost no real build weaknesses, then you're not playing with the right tactics....or you're trying to solo things you shouldn't be.
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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".
Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.
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Keep in mind, E3 was last week, so a lot of the devs were probably down there and didn't have time to check the forums as much as we have been. There were what, around 3-5ish dev posts the entire last week? I'm sure we'll get a lot more this week now that they're back.
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Sorry, I was at E3, and Cuppa was the only CoX Dev or Mod I saw at the NCSoft booth during my many visits there (one of the blue-shirted people at the main desk looked at me like I was from Mars when I first said "Cryptic", but it's possible she just couldn't hear me over the band NCSoft had on stage 
).
Cryptic didn't have any demos there at all. Just a poster and a looping gameplay video, really. I don't see what they could've been doing at E3 that would justify a week of silence.
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Keep in mind, there was the big NCSoft booth in the South Hall and there were the private NCSoft rooms in the Concourse Hall. You probably never saw Tisirin in the South Hall, but he was at E3 hanging around in the Concourse. I know for fact that Positron was there, because I, uh, saw him at the NCSoft party that I probably shouldn't have been allowed to. I didn't personally see any other Cryptic folks, though, so I couldn't guess who else was there. The Meet 'n' Greet might've brought a few others over, though. Keep in mind, Cryptic isn't all that far from LA, so it's probably easier to coax them over for events like that in the area.
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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".
Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.
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Can't really comment yet, other than to say I've read the thread and am making recommendations based on the feedback here.
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I seriously hope you guys dont pull another Trick Arrow Fiasco (you know, we will go as is and tweak as we go... one year later)
BTW: I know its not your call in the end, Castle, but i am sure you know what I mean.
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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".
Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.
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Can't really comment yet, other than to say I've read the thread and am making recommendations based on the feedback here.
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For starters you can remove that GAWD-awful recharge from tele-smash it does not make sense for an AT that thrives off of quick attack chains. Second you guys should now go back and re-think the whole philosiphy you guys have on powersets that have status protection holes because for some sets the reasoning behind your original decision no longer exists so it is time for a change. This needs to be done so we can finally give this dead horse a proper burial instead of beating it on a weekly basis.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".
Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.
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Can't really comment yet, other than to say I've read the thread and am making recommendations based on the feedback here.
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And that's what counts. The devs have the exact numbers. They handcrafted this set. They're watching it being tested and listening to comments. I'll be playing Cattleprod no matter what changes they make or don't make because they've got a two year history of doing a damn fine job.
Keep it up.
As I've said - Lightning Rod needs it's recharge shortened. On top of that, the overall damage of this set could stand to be better. The Blaster Thunder Strike does a little less damage than the Blaster Total Focus. The Brute Thunder Strike does FAR less damage than the brute's total focus. Giving Brutes a Thunder Strike that does only a little less damage than their total focus would NOT overpower this set, merely make it closer on-par with what else is out there.
Please consider it. PvP-wise, This set has little to no burst damage, a very minor disorient, No endurance drain to speak of, and a secondary effect that is all but negated due to everyone and their mother having Health, which resists sleep.
PvE-wise, the set suffers from sub-par overall damage, and lengthy recharges. In PvE, it is certainly better off than in PvP, but still weaker than virtually any other brute set.
Every set should have it's own strengths and weaknesses, and not simply be automatically weaker than the others. Electric Melee currently falls into the latter category. It has it's own strengths, but right now are far too limited for the set to stand on it's own.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
On top of that I would say Chain Induction needs a look - both for damage and xp loss.
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I warned everyone that Elec Melee was going to suck.
Elec Armor however.. is a swiss army knife... If you can't take advantage of the fact it has almost no real build weaknesses, then you're not playing with the right tactics....or you're trying to solo things you shouldn't be.
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Or you're not willing to devote half of your powers on power pools, thereby actually not taking many of the powers in the set.
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Or you're not willing to devote half of your powers on power pools, thereby actually not taking many of the powers in the set.
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Yes... we know there are gaps in the status protection of the powerset... welcome to what every fire/ tank, /dark scrapper, or /fire & /dark brute has had to put up with. Most stalker secondaries also lack KB protection.
Is this right? Is this good? Heck no... but you basically have to adapt or look elsewhere for your armor set.
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Most stalker secondaries also lack KB protection.
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Please check before saying something like this. Stalker secondaries consist of Regen (good knocback resistance), Energy Aura (good knockback resistance), Super Reflexes (good knockback resistance), and Ninjitsu (No knockback resistance). Yes with issue 7 stalkers also get Dark Armor (No knockback resistance)....but really, 2 out of 5 secondaries not providing knocbkack protection is not "most".
you guys got a little sidetracked- this is a melee set, an offensive powerset.
status protection of ur armors has nothing to do w/ this.
fire and dark have self heals though
None of them lacked knockback protection, immobilize protection, AND a heal, though. This is off-topic, as someone said, and because of that, I'm sure it will be removed.
Definitely Got Side tracked...so a reminder this is a ELEC MELEE THREAD with that said...i think the main faults of this set is the fact it lacks any real damaging move...well there was lighthning ROD but i am discounting that because it has a 180 second timer and from what i understand it still does subpar damage...i was really counting that this set would at least give damage at least equal or almost DA set really but having no real damaging move i dont think this Set would last 10 secs in a fight in PVP and seeing I7 (and i am guessing succeding issues) is more PVP than PVE this will be a real downer...
okey if they can't up the damage then at least up the END Drain..or something...this set as currently is...NEEDS SOME MAJOR loving
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okey if they can't up the damage then at least up the END Drain..or something...this set as currently is...NEEDS SOME MAJOR loving
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To be honest, I believe if they are going to add the End Drain as a secondary effect on a good portion of the powers, they need to make it count. It is much easier to fight a boss than it is to fight a minion, taking into account they use higher endurance cost powers.
I've gotten my Elec/Elec brute up to 13 and have 3 End Mod enhancements in Charged Brawl - Jacob's Ladder - Lightning Field and the only real results I can see on the bosses. I was hoping to see something significant with the DOs on Lightning Field, but overall it is 'Meh.'
In contrast, I could point out things like Debuffs on Fear, Disorients on a slew of powers, as well as sleep duration on secondaries are much more reliable than offensive endurance modification usage.
To help refocus the discussion on the Melee set, let me post up some points and feel free to comment on them:
* Electric melee has no real damage mitigation built into it except for:
-- sleep - kind of counter productive for a brute
-- end drain - this is not effective on anything but a boss at best.
* Attack cycles on each attack have a fairly long recharge time.
* A slightly "meatier sound" would be nice on most attacks.
* Set does abut average to sub-average damage.
* Endurance gained from the first two attacks is so small (even with end mods included) that it is not worth considering or slotting at the moment.
* Jacob's ladder cone is a bit narrow and short.
* Chain induction gives no xp for the arcs and does fairly low damage.
* Lighting rod has such a large recharge on it that it basically becomes useless in an attack chain and can only be included as an add on attack when it does come up.
* Lightning rod damage is sub-par.
On the positive side:
* Thunderstrike is a great attack.
* Chain Induction is a cool idea for an attack.
* Jacobs ladder has a nice animation and decent damage (when it hits more than one).
* Color on attacks with sparks flying is nice.
As you have comments on these or if you have stuff you would like to add/take off/move please post up.
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And when it looks like they're doing that... folks complain that the new sets just aren't powerful enough. You just can't make 'em all happy...
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What made people unhappy the fact that it appeared that the Devs were not paying attention to the thread (lack of redname posts until just today).