Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
The last few hours of the RV event I was able to run 2 missions in Warburg with both my EM/Elec and my Elec/Elec, on relentless. I finished both within 4 minutes of each other
.naturally em was faster of the two. But elec melee at 40 didnt seem as bad in PvE as it did in PvP. I dont think Id ever go into a PvP zone with melee how it is. I mean regardless of being able to kill, over time, elec is just not an efficient PvP set at all. It may seem bad in PvE to some of you but I dont really see that much of a problem
and I only took havoc, Jacobs, ts, and lightning rod. Also, each attack was slotted with two recharge as well as having hasten and lightning reflexes.
*shrugs*
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The last few hours of the RV event I was able to run 2 missions in Warburg with both my EM/Elec and my Elec/Elec, on relentless. I finished both within 4 minutes of each other
.naturally em was faster of the two. But elec melee at 40 didnt seem as bad in PvE as it did in PvP. I dont think Id ever go into a PvP zone with melee how it is. I mean regardless of being able to kill, over time, elec is just not an efficient PvP set at all. It may seem bad in PvE to some of you but I dont really see that much of a problem
and I only took havoc, Jacobs, ts, and lightning rod. Also, each attack was slotted with two recharge as well as having hasten and lightning reflexes.
*shrugs*
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Single target damage, you know what is needed for bosses, elite bosses and AVs? That is the part that is lacking. My FM/DA brute can clear a relentless PVP mission in about 10 minutes to include zoning and travel time. So if you say that adding another 4-5 minutes on that then yes I say it is underperforming compared to the other sets.
if they made chain induction just like energy transfer it would make the set so much better.
elec/ is the only set that doesnt have any extreme damage, its seriously lacking in damage for anything higher than lts and some bosses
I have to be super specific with mission details with you I guess. I didnt take into acct, during my 13-14 minute mission where I was enjoying lightning rod and waiting for it to recharge a few times so I could use 3 reds and BU to attack minions and or LTs. Just for fun. If I did a mish straight through Im certain it would take a minute more than EM at most.
I took my elec/elec 40 into the patron chain and fought Silver Mantis, Barracuda and others as Elite Bosses and really had no issues with them. I had even fully drained their endurance at one point, removing their alpha strikes for at least half the time they wanted to use them.
My build took Hasten, Super Speed, Tough, Boxing, Fitness line. I had ZERO vertical powers which made getting around the zone quite funny. Lightning Field on my elec/elec was 2 acc, 2 end mod, 2 end redux. On my Dark/Elec i went 2 acc, 2 dmg, 2 end redux and farming even levels went smoother.
In combat I loved the build, but I'll have to work in a vertical power afterall (I may go CJ/SJ over Hasten/SS).
I also tested a Dark/Elec and found it much more agreeable to survival, but my Lightning Field was doing the most damage as I tried to lineup Shadow Maul and my endurance replacing powers.
Dark feels better, but Elec was more fun to play.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
i agree although I like the red and hate the new invuln (my poor ugy 40 brute 
I think we should have a choice for colors give us 3 colors to choose from will add to making toons look more individual. Just my thought
Have to say I'm loving my new Electric brute. Only one small complaint so far: Havoc Punch has an "ewwwwwnnnn" sound effect tacked onto the end of it that sounds almost exactly like the sound effect that plays when you "pop" for running out of endurance. It is very distracting as I'm constantly double-checking the status of my toggles and end bar 
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
This thread needs some serious Red Name lovin'...
I've read the past 4 or 5 pages, and one thing is consistent... This set needs more damage. While the use of "Chain Lightning" er... is amusing, you need some bursty damage for PVP.
Some things that we see most often...
Reduce LR recharge (to somewhere around Footstomp land).
Do something with Jacobs ladder (either make it a single target, or a hop like induction) it's not acting like an arc currently.
Change Chain Induction to be an Extreme single target, you can leave the paltry electricity hop in if you like, it does like what, 40 damage? Another solution would be to make the hop much faster and start off a little more extreme in damage.
"Dramatically" increase the endurance drain. If we're not going to be "Great" PVP killers, then at least let us be great End Drains. LR should drain 50% or more base endurance with it's crazy recharge. Have you ever seen someone get struck by lightning!? 
I think that's about it. I'd be happy with those changes.
Oh, as an edit I have a 32 Elec/Stone
Thanks
I think Thunder Strike has a bit too long of a pause before its activiation (red brackets around the power button) other than that ELEC MELEE PWNS!!!
I suggest you give both Elec armor and melee to tankers; just imagine the gauntlet fun that would take place with Lightning Field.
50Soulsunder: DM/Regen Scrapper
50Limitshift: EM/WP Brute
Victoria Nox: Dark/Dark Dominator
And about 5 others that change constantly...
My Elec/Elec brute is currently stuck at level 33 because the melee set just isnt fun to play. Electric Melee just does too little damage for me to enjoy it. The attack chain feels clunky and slow. There is very little Elec Melee can do that another set can't do better.
It saddens me, because I had such hope for the set. My main is an Elec/Elec blaster, and I've been looking forward to Elec being included on the Villain side since CoV Beta.
The developers seem to think that endurance drain is this be all-end all type of secondary effect, and they have continuously demonstrated that by leaving electric (blast and melee) sub-par in damage compared to the other sets. What they apparently do not realize is that killing something quickly is much more efficient than standing around all day beating on it so that its endurance is drained.
In any event, I've resigned myself to having a sub-par brute, as apparently no devs pay attention to anything said on this board, otherwise this set wouldnt have went live the way that it did.
On the tiny plus side, Lightning Rod does more damage than people'd expected.
If this has been said before, let me echo the thoughts of those before me. There are a few problems with electricity melee and here are some ideas in making it more in line with the other primaries. I am not saying all of these changes should be put into place, but at least one does:
1) Elec melee needs to be a more powerful AoE. Thunderstrike does 5.4368 BI for only the target it hits. Fire Sword Circle can do up to 5.7002 to ALL targets it hits, and has a 1.1 second shorter activation time (although it has a 2 second more recharge, the damage is far superior to that of Elec). This one attack alone will yield more damage over time than that of Thunderstrike.
2) Energy Melee has two attacks that do over 9 damage to a single target. Superstrength, stone, and fire all have one attack that does over 9. Stone and fire have one attacks in addition that do over 6 damage, while Dark (having no 9 plus) has two attacks that do over 6, with one being a life-drain effect. Elec has a total of two attacks that do over FIVE damage, and what are those two attacks? Chain induction which 'bounces' and doesn't do its full 5.611 damage to any one target and Thunderstrike, which is the main AoE attack yet it only does it's 5.4638 to one target, dealing 2.686 damage to others around. Needless to say, this set really needs a heavy damaging attack.
3) Chain Induction should be scrapped and replaced. With the lack of a single powerful attack from this powerset (see #2 above), why not just change CI into a superior damage single target attack?
4) The end-drain effect of elec melee just isn't apparent. I still run out of end while fighting just as much as anyone else. Further, I have NEVER seen a boss not be able to attack because of zero endurance.
5) Lightning Clap doesn't fit. It has a pathetic accuracy, and is way too much like hand clap of super strength (although hand clap doesn't have the accuracy penalty and it can be taken earlier on). Is that really a justified power to want to wait for until 26? This is the second to last power, and yet I look at it and go meh... we're brutes not controllers anyhow.
6) Accuracy penalty powers is just pure garbage thrown at this set by the Devs. There is not a single power in ANY brute primary that has a -acc penalty to a power, and yet Elec Melee'rs have TWO. One being Lightning Clap at -20% and the other being Lightning Rod at -10%. Worse of all, both of these powers are the 8th and 9th power in the set respectfully, the supposive 'really really good powers'.
7) That brings me to Lightning Rod. Fix it. Sure, it's cool and 'unique'. However, it's in-effective. Let me list it's defects:
7a: It has a 10% penalty to acc (see #6)
7b: It's recharge is 90 seconds. Besides knockout blow and the other +dam/acc powers in the primaries, all other damage dealers have a max recharge of 20 seconds, many under that. (thunderstrike having a recharge of 18 and chain induction of 14)
7c: The damage is said to be superior, yet according to the numbers its BI is 2.7778 smashing and 1.9444 energy for a total of 4.7222. Superior? Try Total Focus of 9.8889 damage, and that isn't even a ninth tier power. That is almost TWICE as powerful as Lightning Rod.
Overall, the problems with Elec when compared to the others are obvious. The long recharges could be said to cancel out with Lightning Reflexes, but that is a SECONDARY powerset that any other primary could take. So this powerset needs shorter recharges on some of its powers, a better single-target damage attack, better AoE capabilities, and to have Lightning Rod and Chain Induction fixed.
After reading all this, I do not even want to get my Elec\Elec brute past 6. I do not want to waste my time.
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After reading all this, I do not even want to get my Elec\Elec brute past 6. I do not want to waste my time.
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I'm just going purely on concept alone.
Elec/Elec/Scirroco
My elec/elec/Mu brute has been an absolute blast to play. Electrics armor excels vs. energy, so fight swarms of energy damaging minions and lts. and throw Lightning Rod once you've herded them to a corner.
I play CoH mostly for the comic book theme and present day world (mostly MMOs go Fantasy or far Future), but it hands down beats most other games in massive room clearing brawls.
Yes, I have completely drained non-signature Elite Bosses of Endurance before I killed them. Yes my single target dmg stinks (and I'm 2 acc, 2 dmg, 1 recharge, 1 end redux in most powers).
This set is new. Have fun first then worry about how Uber it is. I've played this set like an addict the last 4 weeks. The Mu Mastery pool with Electric Fences and Ball Lightning works well with your Crowd Control Mastery.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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The damage is said to be superior, yet according to the numbers its BI is 2.7778 smashing and 1.9444 energy for a total of 4.7222. Superior? Try Total Focus of 9.8889 damage, and that isn't even a ninth tier power. That is almost TWICE as powerful as Lightning Rod.
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Actually the BI is 6.3 with a change to be 8.9 according to some testing in one of the latest threads. Looks like the prima guide is wrong (big surprise).
Just hit 50. As long as you fight energy users you can herd old-school style with this toon and have the aoes to kill them all.
I've been told many toon ATs would be bad/great to use but I never knew if I liked them until I got intot he 20s or 30s. If you're lvl 33 and dont like a toon anymore then reroll something else. We are supposed to have fun here lol. I have a friend who got a trick arrow/archery to 50 and he had a blast.
Voltjolt takes a proud seat next to my other 2 50 electrics on Infinity and my 50 electric on Freedom. Did I mention I love electrics?
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
The power they really need in this set is something analogous to Spec-Ops End Grenades or Sapper End drain. Now THAT would be a good 9th power! Players should be able to do the same to the enemies back doggone it!
Total Focus is a hold, right?
You damn well know if we had the Sapper attack every Moe, Larry and Curly would be playing Elec It would be nice to have though
I agree with the poster - if you want Uber, you don't take Elec - but the set has a "flare" to it that is just great. It plays fun.
Megawatt Maniac, lvl 26 Elec/Elec Brute, Justice
I have three requests, that would easily make ELM a practical set and not a mere concept powerset.
1.) Buff the damage for Thunder Strike. SherkSilvers builder lists the BI for TS as follows (for Brutes):
2.78 Smashing
2.69 Energy
<<5.5 Total>>
The 5.5 hits the single target, while the 2.69 Energy is the aoe, damaging the enemies not targeted.
Now, Sherksilver lists the BI for TS in the Blaster secondary as:
7.22 Energy
1.92 Smashing
<<9.1 Total>>
And I'd be perfectly content to leave the AoE energy portion relatively the same, and boost the Smashing portion, making it:
4.56 Smashing
2.78 Energy
<<7.3 Total>>
This way, it does decent AoE, but boosts the single target damage ELM sorely lacks.
2.) Now, I have yet to try Lightning Rod, so I'm not sure how it works, but again, SherkSilvers builder lists the BI for it as:
2.78 Smashing
1.94 Energy
<<4.7 Total>>
Now that seems wrong, since that is barely High Damage, let alone Superior. I'm assuming however, that there is no intended target that will take more damage as in TS, and will deal equal damage to all enemies. Now, there are two possible solutions imho. Option 1 is to give a boost up to TF in damage, and leave the recharge at 90 seconds, making the BI:
2.78 Smashing
7.11 Energy
<<9.89 Total>>
Or, make the Recharge 180, but give it nuke status, a la Thunderous Blast, only with Smashing, and no DoT, making it:
5.56 Smashing
8.33 Energy
<<13.9 Total>>
That, and fix the xp bug on Chain Induction, and I think you have a powerset 
The numbers in both the prima guide and the builder are wrong on Lightning Rod, as has been discussed in length on the brute forums.
Its actually 6.3 (3.6 & 2.7) with a chance to do an additional 2.7 for a total of 8.9. Pretty close to the first number you suggested. The 8.9 doesn't happen all the time, but often enough, and certainly on atleast a good number in any large group thats hit. Unslotted with around 80% fury and build-up it was enough to one-shot yellow minions. A group of yellow minions.
I've spent the last few weeks grinding up an electric melee brute, so I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts.
Overall I'm happy with the set with 1 very big exception...
Chain Induction just doesn't do it for me. The damage isn't very good at all, it very rarely jumps, and when it does we get less xp. My suggestion for fixing this would be either to make it a long, narrow cone (think along the lines of fire breath) with the same damage it has currently, or, preferably, make it a pbaoe like short circuit, but with a smaller range, the same damage it has now, and far less end drain. The only thing I like about this power is its animation...which could work still if the power was changed to a long narrow cone (which would get rid of the random jumping and the xp problem).
Fix this power and I'd be happy with this set despite its other short-comings. I wouldn't mind, though, if Jacob's Ladder had its cone width increased though to match the animation.
So I just picked up Lightning Clap on my elec melee/invuln brute. Fun power, but I wish it behaved the way that Fault does from stone melee. Fault is no damage, knockdown and disorient. Lightning clap is no damage, knockBACK and disorient.
The difference is huge. Fault is one of my favorite powers in Stone Melee, Lightning Clap is fun but not nearly as useful.
Thunder strike is amazing, and one of the joys of the set for me. Chain Induction, I heard of the xp bug and avoided. I also heard the animation time is a bit long on it...along with long animations on thunder strike and jacob's ladder, it didn't sound worth it to me until it's fixed or changed.
Damage feels a lot less than other brutes so far, but I'll admit that having 2 elec brutes on a team is great fun. I'm not a numbercruncher, so no idea about all the brawl index stuff. Looking forward to Lightning Rod, hoping it'll soup up the damage even if the recharge is a bit long.
My dream would be able to open up with a lightning rod, then thunderstrike and handclap without sending the enemies scattered in all directions.
Lightning Clap is a panic power if you can't handle your herd/taunt/aggro. Fun, but yup not really as useful as other powers.
The damage is irrelevant if you play the toon for crowd control. Thunder Strike and Lightning Rod continually get minions and lts. off their feet. Things die pretty darn fast for me but boss and elite boss killing is like going to the dentist. It may not take much time in reality, but it feels painfully long lol.
And here's a BIG note: Chain Induction has the same animation time as Energy Transfer and does the same if not a hair damage more than Havoc Punch. That's pretty much a one second cast time (the ET animation may have a 1/2 second cool down after you fire it so maybe two seconds total). You have to get it with as weak as your single target DPS is.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
Gonna try to summarize a lot of what people have offered to this point. The developers tend to respond a bit more to summarires so here goes:
summary of most poster, obviously can't cover all of the bases)
Electric melee - overall the set feels ok but the damage output to single targets is more than a bit weak. Most of the posters feel the set needs a boost somewhere.
Powers
Charged Brawl - ok as is
Havoc Punch - ok as it
Jacob's Ladder - damage and/or range and/or cone needs to be buffed.
Build-up - ok as is
Thunderstrike - single target damage and/or radius needs to be buffed.
Taunt - ok as is
Chain Induction - damage AND xp loss need to be buffed.
Lightning Clap - knockback needs to be knockdown for -1 and up (knockback is more of a penalty than a boon)
Lightning Rod - recharge/damage/range need to be rethought.
Overall the set does not excel at anything. It does not have ennough damage in single/aoe attacks to put a hurt on any boss or higher.
With its current configuration, I believe electric melee will be more for theme sets than anything else.
I don't believe anyone who plays brutes wants an "uber set" but almost all of us think the set honestly needs another look before going live.