Moot_Point

I searched and saw some hit and miss information, just thought I would check and see if anyone has a work-around for this.

For the last several days I keep getting the silly dbserver error. Yesterday I had a little luck after I rebooted my system but today that seems to be rather useless. Any word on a fix or a workaround to get past it? It seems awful silly to be on/off this long.

Any helpful ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I have just posted up a Spines Dark guide for Inventions here

Spines - Dark Invention Origin Enhancement Guide

I have just posted up a Spines Dark guide for Inventions here

Spines - Dark Invention Origin Enhancement Guide

Spine Dark Invention Guide

With the advent of Invention Origin Enhancements, I started looking at what it will mean to a spines/dark scrapper. I have always loved this AoE monster, but the endurance issues have prevented me from really enjoying what they can do. I have played Spines and Dark individually for quite some time and thought I would try to write a guide looking at the synergy and opportunities for this AT now that Inventions have gone live.

Since one of the key issues facing a spines/dark is endurance, I am looking at every power in the sets as well as pool powers to help with endurance issues. The set selections are based on giving you the most endurance recovery possible while attempting to maintain the damage output on your bread and butter attacks and keeping your defensive slotting so that you can stay alive.

This guide is not set up to explain all of the powers and what they do, only what I see as optimal slotting as far as attempting to recovery as much endurance as possible. There are plenty of other guides that deal with Spine and Dark separately as well as one or two that deal with Spines/Dark.

In each power set below I will give you the suggested primary set (to get your recovery) and any additional set recommendations. The first set listed on each power is there to give you your Recovery bonus. The additional sets are to finish out buffing your Acc, Dmg, End, and Rchg as well as give you other bonuses like Max Health or Regen. I will sometimes list two sets to choose from to give you an option for the lower level builds and one for the higher level builds. In this section I am not going into which powers you would want, I leave that up to you. I am simply trying to offer an analysis of what will work.

Spines
Barb Swipe – recommended 5 slots – basic/filler melee attack (if you are going to take this)
Bruising Blow (2 slots for 1% recovery) and then use another set like Touch of Death or Mako’s Bite
Lunge – recommended 5 slots – decent melee attack
Same slotting for this as Barb Swipe
Spine Burst – recommended 6 slots – PBAoE
Cleaving Blow (2 sots for 1% recovery) and then use Scirocco’s Dervish (4 slots)
Build Up – recommended 3-5 slots (if you are going to take this)
Standard IO slotting for Rchg and To Hit
Impale – recommended 6 slots – ranged attack
Thunderstrike – (2 slots for 2% recovery) and then use a set like Entropic Chaos or Devestation
Confront – recommended 1 slot – single target taunt (if you are going to take this)
Standard IO slotting for Taunt
Quills – recommended 6 slots – PBAoE
Same slotting for this as Spine Burst – you can change out the fourth slot on Scirocco’s Dervish for a standard End Red IO
Ripper – recommended 6 slots – PBAoE
Same slotting for this as Spine Burst
Throw Spines – recommended 6 slots – Ranged AoE
Positron’s Blast (5 slots for 2.5% recovery) and then use a standard Acc IO

Dark
Dark Embrace – recommended 4 slots – Resist
Impervium Armor (2 slots for 2.5% recovery) and Aegis
Death Shroud – recommended 6 slots – PBAoE
Same slotting as Quills due to the endurance use
Murky Cloud – recommended 4 slots – Resist
Same slotting as Dark Embrace
Obsidian Shield – recommended 4 slots – Resist
Impervium Armor (2 slots for 2.5% recovery) and Steadfast with unique (2 slots for 1.5% recovery)
Dark Regeneration – recommended 4 slots – PBAoE & Heal
Multistrike (2 slots for Acc & End) and Miracle (2 slots for 2.5% recovery & End)
Cloak of Darkness – recommended 1 slot – Defense
Karma (knockback/up protection)
Cloak of Fear – recommended 4 slots – Fear (if you are going to take this)
Standard IOs – 2 Acc, 2 End Red
Oppressive Gloom – recommended 1-2 slots – Stun
Stupefy (2 slots for 2.5% recovery)
Soul Transfer – recommended 1 slot – Rez (if you are going to take this)
Standard Rchg, Health, End depending on your tastes

Pool Powers
Leaping (highly recommended)
Combat Jumping – recommended 1 slot
Karma (knockback/up protection)
Super Jump – recommended 1 slot
Standard IO Leap
Fitness (highly recommened)
Swift – recommended 2 slots – Run
Either Standard IOs Run or Celerity (for additional Stealth)
Hurdle – recommended 1 slot – Jump
Either Standard IO Jump or Unbounded (for additional Stealth)
Health – recommended 6 slots - Health(see Scrapulous guide for this)
Numina (unique for 10% recovery/15% regen), Regenerative Tissue (unique for 20% regen), Miracle (2 – unique + 1 for 17.5% recovery) and Harmonized (2 for 1.5% recovery)
Stamina – recommended 3 slots – Endurance
Standard IOs for Endurance
Fighting (can be taken – not recommended – too many toggles)
Boxing – recommended 2 slots – Melee(if you are going to take this)
See Barb Swipe for slotting
Kick – recommended 2 slots– Melee(if you are going to take this)
See Barb Swipe for slotting
Tough – recommended 4 slots – Resist
See Dark Embrace for slotting
Weave – not recommended at all due to small bonus and endurance use
Flight (possible alternative to leaping – different slotting on swift needed)
Hover – recommended 2 slots – Flight & Defense
Soaring (2 slots for 1% recovery)
Flight – recommended 2 slots – Flight
Soaring (2 slots for 1% recovery)
Speed (not recommended as it uses endurance faster)
Hasten – recommended 3 slots (if you are going to take this)
Standard IO for Recharge
Super Speed – recommended 1 slot
Celerity (1 slot for unique to stack your stealth) or Standard IO for End

Ancillary Powers – too many personal tastes go into these powers so I am only going to gloss over the possibilities
Body Mastery – Conserve Power is a great help for your endurance cost but other choices have issues – Focused Accuracy helps hit things but does cost extra End which you are trying to save.
Darkness Mastery – Several possibilities here including a Hold/Range/Ranged AoE & Imobilize
Weapon Mastery – Several possibilities here also including a Ranged/Slow/Ranged AoE

My Current Sample Build – slotting and bonuses
For each power listed I have
*specific enhancement listed
*standard bonuses – Acc, Dmg, End, Rchg
*set bonuses listed – End, Recovery, Max Health

Barb Swipe 5 slots
*Bruising Blow A/D D/E, Mako’s Bite A/D D/E A/E/R
*A-1.75 E-1.75 D-2.5
*recovery-1%, immobilize resist 3.3%, max hp 1.5%
Dark Embrace 4 slots
*Impervium Armor R R/E, Aegis R R/E
*E-1.25 R-3.25
*recovery 2.5%, run speed 2.5%
Death Shroud 6 slots
*Cleaving Blow A/D D/E, Scirocco’s Dervish D/A D/E A/R D/E/A
*A-2.375 D-3 E-1.75 Rch-.625
*recovery 1%, regen 2.5%, res ener/neg ener 2.5%, to hit 2.5%
Spine Burst 6 slots
*Cleaving Blow A/D D/E, Scirocco’s Dervish D/A D/E A/R D/E/A
*A-2.375 D-3 E-1.75 Rch-.625
*recovery 1%, regen 2.5%, res ener/neg ener 2.5%, to hit 2.5%
Lunge 5 slots
*Bruising Blow A/D D/E, Mako’s Bite A/D D/E A/E/R
*A-1.75 E-1.75 D-2.5
*recovery-1%, immobilize resist 3.3%, max hp 1.5%
Impale 6 slots
*Thunderstrike D/A D/E/A, Devestation D/A D/E D/R, Standard IO Rng
*A-1.75 D-3 E-1.125 Rch-.625 Rng-1
*recovery 2%, regen 12%, max hp 2.25%
Obsidian Shield 4 slots
*Impervium Armor R R/E, Steadfast Protection R/E R&3%D
*E-1.25 R-2.875 Def-3%
*recovery 4%
Murky Cloud 4 slots
*Impervium Armor R R/E, Aegis R R/E
*E-1.25 R-3.25
*recovery 2.5%, run speed 2.5%
Combat Jumping 1 slot
*Karma knockback/up
*none
*knockback protection
Swift 2 slots
*Standard IO Run Run
*Run 2
*none
Health 6 slots
*Numina unique, Regenerative Tissue unique, Miracle unique H, Harmonized H H/E
*H 2.625
*recovery 29%, regen 35%
Stamina 3 slots
*Standard IO End Mod x3
*E 3
*none
Super Jump 1 slot
*Standard IO jump
*J 1
*none
Dark Regeneration 4 slots
*Multistrike A/D A/E, Miracle H/E H/E/R
*A-1.25 D-.625 E-1.75 H-1.125
*recovery 2.5%, sleep res 1.5%
Quills 6 slots
*Cleaving Blow A/D D/E, Scirocco’s Dervish D/A D/E A/R D/E/A
*A-2.375 D-3 E-1.75 Rch-.625
*recovery 1%, regen 2.5%, res ener/neg ener 2.5%, to hit 2.5%
Ripper 6 slots
*Cleaving Blow A/D D/E, Scirocco’s Dervish D/A D/E A/R D/E/A
*A-2.375 D-3 E-1.75 Rch-.625
*recovery 1%, regen 2.5%, res ener/neg ener 2.5%, to hit 2.5%
Cloak of Darkness 1 slot
*Karma knockback/up protection
*none
*knockback/up protection
Throw Spines 6 slots
*Positron’s Blast D/A D/E D/R D/Rng D/E/A, Standard IO A
*A-2.125 D-3 E-1.125 R-.625 Rng-.625
*recovery 2.5%, res fire/cold 1.25%, to hit 2.5%, rchg 2.5%
Oppressive Gloom – 2 slots
*Stupefy A/E A/R
*A-1.25 E-.625 R-.625
*recovery 2.5%
Soul Transfer 1 slot
*Standard IO End Mod
*End Mod 1
*none
Petrifying Gaze 3 slots
*Paralytic AE A/R E/Hold
*A-1.25 E-1.25 R-.625 Hold-.625
*recovery 1% res ener/neg ener .63%
Dark Blast 2 slots
*Thunderstrike D/A D/E/A
*A-1.125 D-1.125 E-.5
*recovery 2%
Tenebrous Tentacles 6 slots
*Positron’s Blast D/A D/E D/R D/Rng D/E/A, Standard IO A
*A-2.125 D-3 E-1.125 R-.625 Rng-.625
*recovery 2.5%, res fire/cold 1.25%, to hit 2.5%, rchg 2.5%
Recall Friend 1 slot
*Standard IO Rng
*Rng 1
*none

Overall Character Bonuses – constantly on
Recovery 59%
Regen 57%
Max hp 5.25%
Imob res 6.6%
Fire/cold res 2.5%
E/NE res 10.63%
Run 5%
To hit 15%
Rchg 5%
Sleep res 1.5%

Since you can't get the bonuses of all of your sets immediately - because you have to wait until you level and acquire the needed slots, recipie and salvage, I highly recommmend you slot those things that will give you what you need for the moment. On a spines/dark build endurance is always an issue. That being said, I would be sure to slot your power with the minimum slots/IOs you need to get the recovery bonus while you work your toon up the levels. I will see about putting together a leveling guide for this build, but that will have to follow later.

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Castle, what are the current unique enhancers if you don't mind us asking?

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Can't say yet! I can say that the list is in flux and may change during testing.

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changing.....???

in flux...???

/e thowing planning papers across the room

aarrggggh... I blink and there are 210 posts... I can't read that fast....

/e confused

oh well, time to start reading

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Great, we may have just caused this to stay on Test for another week.

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Wait, you mean they are still reading these?

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rotfl.... some days it does seem like no one is watching...

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what does AS stand for in this post?

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aid self

As with the electric melee I am going to try and summarize most of the posts to this point.

Electric Armor - overall the set works well, but it does have a few issues with it.


Power summary:

charged armor - ok as is

lightning field - ok as is

conductive shield - ok as is

static shield - ok as is

grounded - knockback/immobilize protection are limited to the point of still requiring acrobatics - seriously needs a buff.

lightning reflexes - ok as is

conserve power - ok as is for the power - but could be switched with power sink to give end recovery sooner

power sink - ok as is - maybe moved up a notch in the list

power surge - the buff of the power is wonderful, but given that this set has no heal - taking a hit on your endurance and health is a bit much.

Overall issues - too many holes currently to be a "good set"
* no hp boost
* no self heal
* knockback/immobilize are too llimited

This set will not take much of a boost to make it good - without making it uber.

Gonna try to summarize a lot of what people have offered to this point. The developers tend to respond a bit more to summarires so here goes:

Electric melee - overall the set feels ok but the damage output to single targets is more than a bit weak. Most of the posters feel the set needs a boost somewhere.

Powerssummary of most poster, obviously can't cover all of the bases)

Charged Brawl - ok as is

Havoc Punch - ok as it

Jacob's Ladder - damage and/or range and/or cone needs to be buffed.

Build-up - ok as is

Thunderstrike - single target damage and/or radius needs to be buffed.

Taunt - ok as is

Chain Induction - damage AND xp loss need to be buffed.

Lightning Clap - knockback needs to be knockdown for -1 and up (knockback is more of a penalty than a boon)

Lightning Rod - recharge/damage/range need to be rethought.


Overall the set does not excel at anything. It does not have ennough damage in single/aoe attacks to put a hurt on any boss or higher.

With its current configuration, I believe electric melee will be more for theme sets than anything else.

I don't believe anyone who plays brutes wants an "uber set" but almost all of us think the set honestly needs another look before going live.

I realize that we don't want any set to be totally uber... too much temptation for a nerf.

BUT

Offering a fix like kb protection on grounded (which does not offer much) is like false advertising. I realize that in the Dev eyes it is "working as intended". But, at this point we will either have to pick up Grounded and suffer with very sub-par protection; pick up acrobatics (sigh... again); or even worse - as we try to max out our resists and pick u both (bleahhh).

If you guys are gonna offer us a fix, can you at least give us one that will work effectively.

Gonna have to echo this comment I have seen several times.

THEY NEED TO DO AN EVENT LIKE THIS ON TEST EVERY OTHER MONTH OR SO!!!!!


Some of the key reasons:
* Everyone is pretty much on even footing.
* New players get to test out powers to see what works.
* Being temporary makes it a special event.
* I enjoyed taking people down on the hero and villain side.
* I enjoyed being ganked by good tactics no matter who did it.
* Having no inspirations and no full heal rez really leveled things.
* It was attended by more people than I have seen on-line in a long time - lots of people!!!!!!


The next time you all want to plan one of these .... COUNT ME IN!!!

Having done some testing in PvE and PvP electric melee does need some help.

Out of the early powers, Jacobs ladder is the only one that might need some work (either wider cone or longer - not much just something to make it more AoEish)

Electric melee has no real power to look forward to post level 18 except for LR. The recharge on it now is nice but when it goes to 90s it will be a once in a fight power... period.

Granted Electric has some nice AoEs but they are not true AoEs.

Jacobs ladder - very narrow and short cone

Thunder strike - AoE is a hit/miss and when it does hit it does less damage on the surrounding mobs - not a true AoE

Lightning clap - more knockback... dont really want knockback so dont need this

Chain induction - weird chain power that does "meh" damage to start with and actually looses you xp when you use it - this needs the damage upped and the xp returned.

The set feels fun.

It does ok damage with some of the attacks.

But honestly, there are not many to pick from and with the recharge on LR there is just not much to want after 19.

We dont need one "uber attack" but we do need something to look forward to. I don't think anyone here wants to be a "one-trick pony".

I hope this testing bears this out for the dev's to see, as I really liked the feel of this set early on.

crapola... now I seriously need a free respec on test...

wonder if they will pass out another one any time soon???

what to build....

*** Editied this post to include the comments so far ***

To help refocus the discussion on the Melee set, let me post up some points and feel free to comment on them:

* Electric melee has no real damage mitigation built into it except for:
-- sleep - kind of counter productive for a brute
-- end drain - this is not effective on anything but a boss at best.

* Attack cycles on each attack have a fairly long recharge time.

* A slightly "meatier sound" would be nice on most attacks.

* Set does abut average to sub-average damage.

* Endurance gained from the first two attacks is so small (even with end mods included) that it is not worth considering or slotting at the moment.

* Thunder Strike - the overall damage on this power needs to be buffed up.

* Jacob's ladder cone is a bit narrow and short.

* Chain induction gives no xp for the arcs and does fairly low damage.

* Lighting rod has such a large recharge on it that it basically becomes useless in an attack chain and can only be included as an add on attack when it does come up.

* Lightning rod damage is sub-par.


On the positive side:

* Thunderstrike - the knockdown in AoE form - when it hits is very nice.

* Chain Induction is a cool idea for an attack.

* Jacobs ladder has a nice animation and decent damage (when it hits more than one).

* Color on attacks with sparks flying is nice.


As you have comments on these or if you have stuff you would like to add/take off/move please post up.

To help refocus the discussion on the Melee set, let me post up some points and feel free to comment on them:

* Electric melee has no real damage mitigation built into it except for:
-- sleep - kind of counter productive for a brute
-- end drain - this is not effective on anything but a boss at best.

* Attack cycles on each attack have a fairly long recharge time.

* A slightly "meatier sound" would be nice on most attacks.

* Set does abut average to sub-average damage.

* Endurance gained from the first two attacks is so small (even with end mods included) that it is not worth considering or slotting at the moment.

* Jacob's ladder cone is a bit narrow and short.

* Chain induction gives no xp for the arcs and does fairly low damage.

* Lighting rod has such a large recharge on it that it basically becomes useless in an attack chain and can only be included as an add on attack when it does come up.

* Lightning rod damage is sub-par.


On the positive side:

* Thunderstrike is a great attack.

* Chain Induction is a cool idea for an attack.

* Jacobs ladder has a nice animation and decent damage (when it hits more than one).

* Color on attacks with sparks flying is nice.


As you have comments on these or if you have stuff you would like to add/take off/move please post up.

On top of that I would say Chain Induction needs a look - both for damage and xp loss.

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I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".

Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.

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Can't really comment yet, other than to say I've read the thread and am making recommendations based on the feedback here.

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Thanks Castle... it means a lot to know that at least someone is looking. I understand if the decision process takes a bit longer. Thanks for the reply.

I find the absence of Red Name comments on either the Elec Armor or the Elec melee to be quite sad at this point. We know they are reading the boards, but their lack of comment to me at this point is that both versions of Elec are " working as intended ".

Given the potential for this set - not really looking for uber, but was hoping for par - in its current form it will be most likely relegated to theme/concept builds only.

I am the one who mentioned it last time only to have it blown away by thosed who thought it was not an issue.

With no heal and no toxic protection at all we will all be seriously sucking air at the later levels.

I don't mind a weakness - all of the sets have one - I just don't want multiple stacked weaknesses.

With only siphon life as a heal, I would seriously think about getting stamina just so you can pick up health.

Aside from all of the comments posted on this thread so far, this is one topic that I am amazed we have not heard from a Red Name yet.

They don't need to justify it or make excuses for it, but simply tell us if it is working as intended....

If so, this will truly be a very sad set. Not unusable, but very very very sad.

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Three minute recharge? LAME.

Lightning Rod is supposed to be the final attack of the set, the capstone of your chain. Analagous to Midnight Grasp, or Head Splitter, or Golden Dragonfly, or others. All of those attacks have 10-20second recharges. 3 minutes, just ... it just about kills my interest in the set. If I wanted an ultimate attack I can bust out once or twice a mish if I'm lucky, then I'd be a Corrupter.

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Yeah, I have to agree. This should really be a 20-30 second recharge power, not 3 minutes.

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/signed


Fix the set please!!!!

we dont need anything major just some minor shifts:
* lightning clap - knockdown please - we dont need another knockback set

* chain induction - do something with this - the concept is very cool (either fix the damage or give xp for the arcs)

* lightning rod - recharge.... PLEASE

I am trying real hard to like the Elec set. Some of the things need to be looked at a bit more, or I do believe it will be a very lackluster set.

So far we have
Charged brawl - decent first attack

Havoc punch - decent second attack

Jacob's Ladder - rather small cone that can be hard to use - but decent damage.

Thunder Strike - my soon to be all time favorite attack - good damage with AoE potential and AoE knockdown potential

Chain Induction - I want to like this one because the idea is cool, but not getting xp for the arcs and having such low damage - Im gonna have to slot this one heavily to see if it gets any better.

Lightning clap - the description on this specifically states knock down, but from what I understand it does (sadly) knock back - not as good

Lightning Rod - the description here also says knock down and from what I can find out, it also (double sadly) does knockback. I am not sure what the recharge or damage is yet.


I am not sure why the developers insist on putting knockback into so many powers from one set. I understand (like in stone) that if you hit lower level mobs they will get throw back. I understand that if you slot knock back it will throw them back...... BUT, brutes for the most part do NOT want to end up chasing mobs all over the screen.

There is a small (ever so small) endurance recovery from the first two attacks - but even enhanced, it does not seem to be making that much difference.

There do not (and understand this is strickly an opinion here so don't beat me up for my opinion please) "appear to be" that many positives in this set. There are quite a few negatives.

* I dont mind that it does not compete with SS, SA or EA for damage but give us something solid and consistent with the set.

* I am not asking for the world here, but hopefully the developers will seriously look at the whole knock down/back thing.

* If they are going to throw in endurance recovery into an attack, it should be useful and noticable or why even bother putting it in.

I don't want electric melee to become the new flavor of the month - but I also don't want to see a set that honestly has a lot of potential fried before it even makes it off of the test floor. If it goes out like it is, then we can expect literally no changes to it.

Enough with the ranting. I do want to throw a couple of props to the developers for:

Thunder strike - love the power
Lightning rod - love the concept
Chain induction - love the concept


just a thought

I have tried to keep up with all of the on-going comments since this hit test and dont think I have seen anyone comment on this.

Does Electric Armor have any Toxic resists????

I don't see it listed anywhere in the power set descriptions. Throw this in with no heal and this could be problematic at the higher levels (or god forbid if you have to deal with Vahz).

So far, elec resists seem to be ok, aside from no heal - I am getting this at 26 - ouch.

Having a hole - I am not sure I am enthusiastic about having no resists to toxic given that I can't boost my hp in any way and I "have to" pool out for a heal.

I am just posting this up to see if anyone else noticed this.