Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
Random thought -
Does anyone have the BI/End Cost/Animation Time/Recharge for the common attack chain attacks in Dark, Energy, and Electric? It feels like this set is designed to be sort of the middle ground between those two (and maybe Fire, given the AoEs). Maybe on paper it will look 'right.'
Using the Prima Official Guide, V's Guide to Brute Numbers, and this thread for numbers, I get:
Dark Melee (Compared to EleM most, good sustained damage)-
-Shadow Punch: 2.333 BI/4.368 End/.57 Animation/3 Recharge
-Smite: 3.678 BI/6.864 End/.97 Animation/6 Recharge
-Shadow Maul (Finisher #1, PBCone): 6.000 BI/8.528 End/3.07 Animation/8 Recharge
-Midnight Grasp (Finisher #2): 6.333 BI/11.96 End/2.07 Animation/15 Recharge
versus
Energy Melee (Extreme Single Target Damage)-
-Barrage: 1.889 BI/3.526 End/1.33 Animation/2 Recharge
-Energy Punch: 2.778 BI/5.2 End/.57 Animation/4 Recharge
-Bone Smasher: 4.556 BI/8.528 End/1.5 Animation/8 Recharge
-Total Focus (Finisher #1): 9.889 BI/18.512 End/3.3 Animation/20 Recharge
-Energy Transfer (Finisher #2): 12.667 BI/10.192 End(With self-hurt)/1 Animation/20 Recharge
versus
Electric Melee
-Charged Brawl: 2.33 BI/X End/X Animation/X Recharge
-Havoc Punch: 3.67 BI/X End/X Animation/X Recharge
-Jacob's Ladder (Finisher?, PBCone): 3.67 BI/X End/X Animation/X Recharge
-Thunderstrike (Finisher?, PBAoE component): 5.44 BI(2.66 AoE?)/X End/3.3? Animation/X Recharge
-Lightning Rod (Unique Components, AoE): 8.166? or 7.4? BI (first number is GFS, as this is supposed to be comparable)/X End/X Animation/90 Sec recharge
Just based on this, it looks like the numbers are closer to Dark Melee, with vastly different "end this fight" techniques. It also looks like this will be the undisputed king of Brute AoE damage. If anyone can help fill in the blanks, it would probably give a better picture of how this set stacks up for a basic attack chain.
Another note: Is it possible to use LR placed very close to someone, and queue up another attack (say, Thunderstrike) so that the second attack goes off while they are flying back from the LR shockwave? I've done something similar with Wormhole, but I don't know if the animations would be limiting.
I am hoping that this set ends up being great fun on the live servers. I've got plans to take one to 50.
You know what? I tried. This set isn't the 'king' of anything, except looking cool. I spent a lot of time testing this set - it needed more single-target damage, and chain induction apparently was never fixed.
So I will move on. And thanks for all the fish. I doubt we'll be seeing any improvements until i8.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
Yeah, I would probably juggle things around and skip Chain Induction in order to take Charged Brawl in my live build. The real issue though is that there are essentially 2 single target attacks in the set. Thunder Strike and CI both have AOE damage, and (rightfully so) don't have the single target damage necessary to really deliver. Aside from Fury, Electric Melee seems to have about the same single target power as Ice Melee, and even less than War Mace.
I'm not saying they need to add Total Focus and Energy Transfer, but maybe switching Chain Induction, which is being looked at anyways, into a more traditional "smash face" type power. This would put the set more on par with Fire Melee with strong AOE damage and a decent single target attack chain.
Your analysis is pretty accurate, I'll add a little of what I saw from trying it out:
a) Jacobs Ladder has about the same animation time as Shadow Maul but far less damage,
b) Lightning Rod has a 90 second recharge (it is bugged and only 60 on test) making it not really available as a "finisher",
c) LR's coolness and pseudo-utility factor aside, its recharge means it won't be available every fight - and so Fire catches up in the AOE damage race.
This is all depending on how Chain Induction goes. The fact that we are a week away from projected release (Posi said within May) and this power is still up in the air, kind of cripples any real projection on how ELM will perform. If CI ends up as a 8 BI single target attack, the set is done. If we get a 3.something BI that can do non-Furied damage to 1-2 extra guys, ELM will be good for coolness factor and that's about it.
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Your analysis is pretty accurate, I'll add a little of what I saw from trying it out:
a) Jacobs Ladder has about the same animation time as Shadow Maul but far less damage,
b) Lightning Rod has a 90 second recharge (it is bugged and only 60 on test) making it not really available as a "finisher",
c) LR's coolness and pseudo-utility factor aside, its recharge means it won't be available every fight - and so Fire catches up in the AOE damage race.
This is all depending on how Chain Induction goes. The fact that we are a week away from projected release (Posi said within May) and this power is still up in the air, kind of cripples any real projection on how ELM will perform. If CI ends up as a 8 BI single target attack, the set is done. If we get a 3.something BI that can do non-Furied damage to 1-2 extra guys, ELM will be good for coolness factor and that's about it.
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Build up definitely helps! I had it in lieu of the medicine pool today and in evaluating the build I would cut out Fitness entirely and take those 3.
It was a little underpowered for damage. The only real reason I was able to kill so effectively was that I could drain a foe's blue with Power Sink then take them while stunned or detoggled with a buildup/attack chain. Without that trick it definitely lacks in the single target damage that EM has.
An EM/Elec combo. 
I noticed that I took quite a bit less damage with the elec/elec brute vs the ss/stone brute. Fighting the lvl 54 turrets I was taking 7 damage/tick vs 37 damage/tic repectively. I had the granite armor on the stone brute which really negates all other armor while the elec overlaps a lot. So there's that.
Lightning Rod looks sweet. I have an issue though. You can't LR from the sky, only from the ground. This is annoying.
I want to teleport over someone/something, hover over there heads, and bring the death from above. Bah!
So... to all that have tested it now, How would you rate ELM in Single Target Damage, and AOE damage compared to the other sets.
I made a pretty gimptastic build to test a few things. So, with a grain of salt....
I'm not too impressed. Thunder Strike is sweet, but slow without the single target boom of Total Focus. LR (with BU) is cool, but I can't "death from above" which annoys me.
I'm happier with my DM/Elec. Siphon Life and Touch of Fear are nice mitigators. But, bear in mind, I was partial to DM ahead of time. I admit bias.
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So... to all that have tested it now, How would you rate ELM in Single Target Damage, and AOE damage compared to the other sets.
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Quite simply, ELM is missing a 20 second recharge heavy hitting attack.
eletric melee does not underperform
u can set diff to highest and get right of 3 reds quite fast w/ build up L.Rod and Thunder strick
i hop ethey keep L.Rod at 60 secs that way i can have 2 acc, 2 dmg, one recharge and 1 end rdx that way it comes up at the same time as build up w/ 3 recharge
I played an elec/elec brute and had a ton of fun in RV. Here is what I noticed. Many of the better powers are way to far up in power selection teirs. I think I skiped a total of 2 powers from the set. The first was charged brawl and the other was the thunder clap. I was able to build fury pretty well. Jacobs ladder did ok. Not what I was expecting. I will say teleblasting was fun. It can't take the oppisiotion down but it can sting them pretty bad.
I agree with katana, electric brute is weak, even after slotting. lvl 40 minon, thunder strike, high damage, 4 damage SO's, barely does 1/4 hp on them. Animations look great, damage could use some work over.
Ok, in needing an opinion of my own I have made my own Elec/Elec...and warning to you all long winded post coming up
Elec/ is what I would call an average set it has enough damage to take down a target as seen in PvE but cannot administer the damage fast enough as seen in PvP, thunderstrike is all but useless in pvp (used to disoreant a squishy if i was lucky) but in pve its quite useful as aoe damage and mitagation in the form of knockback, cant make a comment on chain induction as all I seemed to get out of it was a mediocre single target attack, by far my most used bread and butter attack has to be JL, medium animation time and quite good damage with medium-high fury.
Lightning rod with its new recharge (tried to emulate recharge by not using any Rech enh in it) is, in PvE simply amazing build up 3SO LR nearly kills minions and wounds LTs while knocking em down avoiding the alpha, in PvP its useful as above average damage every 45 sec.
Elec armor has, imho, incredible potential if used right. The resists are decent the status protection is practically limitless and with swift sprint and LR you have unsurpressed travel. In pve things are good enough but pvp, even with no heal this set shines. firing off Power Sink every time its up in conjunction with a 2 end mod slotted Lightning field and Elec/ attacks was ussualy able to drain someone in about 44 seconds or less, this could be considered bad due to the fact that a drained opponent 9/10 times runs...With power surge up your practically unkillable and with LR it comes up quite often and, if im correct only needs 1 DamRes to hit the cap in conjunction with your shields. Edit: Did some boss fighting after this post, drained a boss dry in about 5 secs and he never recovers, VERY nice, if counterproductive to fury.
As with most people I believe Elec/ could use one improvement, simply up C-Inductions damage set it to 20 sec recharge and the set is gold.
First let me say...YUP, the damage needs to be up'ed somewhere in the ELEC/ area. It's kinda weak.
Second let me say...I'll probsbly take it anyways for my /ELEC Brute. I know EM is better, but I'll hold out 1) for dev love and 2) ELEC is just fun. 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Second let me say...I'll probsbly take it anyways for my /ELEC Brute. I know EM is better, but I'll hold out 1) for dev love and 2) ELEC is just fun.
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I wouldn't expect any dev love until i8. I think they're ready to put this sucker live.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
From my lvl40 testing so far today:
-Damage, overall, really needs some kinda boost. :/ I didn't see any kind of bigtime burst attack (LRod still was lacking against Player Characters), which really sets ElecMelee back in the current "Burst Damage Or Go Home" PvP design.
-Slotting EndMods into the first 3 powers (the two punches and Jacob's Ladder) was surprisingly effective in conjunction with Power Sink from ElecArmor.
-Jacob's Ladder is NOT something I would take home and show off as a cone. The power's icon remains deceiving, IMO.
-Powers skipped were Taunt, Thunderclap, and Chain Induction. Thunderclap strikes me as not titanically useful considering how high up the ladder it's located on the power list, and CI sounds pretty underwhelming going by other folks' reports. Perhaps these two powers could be tweaked somehow?
In the end, I'd very much like to see at least some sort of damage boost happen for ElecMelee. I'll be using it for concept reasons, but I'll likely spend a lot of time thinking "everything would be easier with Energy Melee".
DJs for The Cape Radio
Makes videos & podcasts about reviewing toys, covering conventions, and more at Vangelus.ca
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From my lvl40 testing so far today:
-Damage, overall, really needs some kinda boost. :/ I didn't see any kind of bigtime burst attack (LRod still was lacking against Player Characters), which really sets ElecMelee back in the current "Burst Damage Or Go Home" PvP design.
-Slotting EndMods into the first 3 powers (the two punches and Jacob's Ladder) was surprisingly effective in conjunction with Power Sink from ElecArmor.
-Jacob's Ladder is NOT something I would take home and show off as a cone. The power's icon remains deceiving, IMO.
-Powers skipped were Taunt, Thunderclap, and Chain Induction. Thunderclap strikes me as not titanically useful considering how high up the ladder it's located on the power list, and CI sounds pretty underwhelming going by other folks' reports. Perhaps these two powers could be tweaked somehow?
In the end, I'd very much like to see at least some sort of damage boost happen for ElecMelee. I'll be using it for concept reasons, but I'll likely spend a lot of time thinking "everything would be easier with Energy Melee".
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All to true. However, Lightning Clap's KnockBACK seems useful enough for PvE to help get AID SELF off.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Have to agree with those on the ELM is better for PvE than PvP. After messing around in RV last night I was really struck by how much better I did versus the NPCs (not the signature heroes mind you) than the heroes. ELM just doesn't seem to have the high damage burst powers to really really make a difference quickly.
I think I'll toss my hat in and say that the Elec. primary seems to need a damage boost...maybe not by much but it did seem to be lacking in PvP. PvE seemed okay just because I could drain a boss of end. pretty well.
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Having done some testing in PvE and PvP electric melee does need some help.
Out of the early powers, Jacobs ladder is the only one that might need some work (either wider cone or longer - not much just something to make it more AoEish)
Electric melee has no real power to look forward to post level 18 except for LR. The recharge on it now is nice but when it goes to 90s it will be a once in a fight power... period.
Granted Electric has some nice AoEs but they are not true AoEs.
Jacobs ladder - very narrow and short cone
Thunder strike - AoE is a hit/miss and when it does hit it does less damage on the surrounding mobs - not a true AoE
Lightning clap - more knockback... dont really want knockback so dont need this
Chain induction - weird chain power that does "meh" damage to start with and actually looses you xp when you use it - this needs the damage upped and the xp returned.
The set feels fun.
It does ok damage with some of the attacks.
But honestly, there are not many to pick from and with the recharge on LR there is just not much to want after 19.
We dont need one "uber attack" but we do need something to look forward to. I don't think anyone here wants to be a "one-trick pony".
I hope this testing bears this out for the dev's to see, as I really liked the feel of this set early on.
I also have to give the nod for a damage boost.
I was playing a BS regen last night. I faced off with an Elec/Elec.
The damage was a joke, he didnt even come close to overcoming my regen rate. The most he ever did was maybe 60% health with his most poweful combo and some fury.
ELA on the other hand did a very good job at taking the edge off my Lethal attacks. Power Surge is the bomb, I couldn't do any damage...I figured it was pointless and backed off. When the crash came he was toast.
I really don't like the red. I've never seen red lightning, and it looks kind of funky. Add to that the fact that almost everyting in CoV seems to be red and black anyway, and the bright red flashes just don't look as cool as they could.
It's a minor aesthetic point, but an amber, white or blue lightning set would look much cooler than this red thing... other than the shape, the powers don't really look electrical.
Indeed, the color settings of these powers are by far the worst aspect.
When are we going to get to change our powers' colors anyway; it should be no more difficult than costume color changes?
Wrajx part of your problem is you have nothing to build fury. You either NEED boxing or the first attack in the set, since I am not going tough route most likely I will not even bother with boxing. Either Charged brawl or boxing and brawl are your fury builders.