Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
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I've never played one so I have to ask - does Energy Transfer get affected by fury or are you wrong about Lightning Rod?
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Oh yes, Energy Transfer is affected by fury, you haven't really punched someone till you get near-to-full fury, pop 15 or so reds and hit ET. I've only done it once, just to see what it would do and the brave soul who let me test it upon them.. well it put the squish into squishy 
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Electric Melee merely mirrors the Dev's vision of Brutes: Not in PvP - which should make you happy. Even fire will out perform it. That LR is the only attack in any of the Brute sets unaffected by Fury is a sad joke. If you don't want it to be affected by our inherent power, give it to Tankers I'm sure they'll love it.
Someone had a really cool idea for what could have been an awesome power, a real signature move of the set; and then they gave it a 3 minute recharge and gave it a penalty no other Brute suffers.
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From everything I've read from the devs and the players who have gotten Lightning Rod, LR IS effected by Fury.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I admit when I first read about the power, it said wasn't affected by fury. Then reading this thread I kind of got the impression that maybe it was, and then in this latest series of posts and the ones I replied to it's swung back to no it's not.
I hope you're right, and it is. If it is, and the reduction in recharge isn't from 180 seconds to 175! but something closer to 30-40 seconds then I'd be happy. Still not a set to PvP with, but at least it'd be fun to play.
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"Warning: May cause XP loss" into the help text. Obviously, a code fix is the best case solution.
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A code fix is the only solution. A power that actually leeches XP is totally unacceptable.
The only way this could even vaguely be acceptable with the XP leeching is if it was stunningly powerful to balance out the lost XP.
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Still makes elec melee a bit lethargic as far as single target damage goes. For a comparable set (gives up a lot of single target for AoE) look at Spines.
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Except spines is a LOT different. Spine Burst is decent range AOE attack. Quills is AOE damage aura. Ripper and Throw Spines are both decent cones. Impale is very nice single target ranged attack.
Thunder Strike needs some help in the AOE department, seems smaller compared to some of the other melee AOE attacks. Jacobs Ladder seems smaller then Shadow Maul to most. Chain Induction needs a serious overhaul and hopefully will get it if something can be done.
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"Warning: May cause XP loss" into the help text. Obviously, a code fix is the best case solution.
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A code fix is the only solution. A power that actually leeches XP is totally unacceptable.
The only way this could even vaguely be acceptable with the XP leeching is if it was stunningly powerful to balance out the lost XP.
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If anyone honestly expects them to actually fix this I think they are dreaming. 2 years on and they still havn't found a way to get around the huge XP drop that Paragon Protectors take when they drop MoG (Yay makes them harder to kill but worth less XP? Nice Risk vs Reward system States).
A power that is general useless except in a fraction of odd-ball situations seems to be a "working as intended feature" as far as the DEVs seems to be concerened. Cookie-cutter FTW or some such nonsense....
If they can not find a way to fix it then I would suggest cutting the end cost or raising the base damage since all it will be is a fancy single target attack in terms of Fury and exp gain.
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If they can not find a way to fix it then I would suggest cutting the end cost or raising the base damage since all it will be is a fancy single target attack in terms of Fury and exp gain.
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Heck, one way I'd be happy with for them to fix it would be to make it essentially a version of itself that only chains back to the target it hit. So in other words, make it a fully single target attack as a fast DoT with a higher magnitude sleep or whatever it is that causes the mobs to do that caught-in-electricity animation. That way, while it's not doing the conceptually neat chaining between enemies, it stays effective, it doesn't have the XP loss issue, and the set gets a decent higher damage single target attack for those that want burst damage. What would people think of something like that?
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If they can not find a way to fix it then I would suggest cutting the end cost or raising the base damage since all it will be is a fancy single target attack in terms of Fury and exp gain.
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Heck, one way I'd be happy with for them to fix it would be to make it essentially a version of itself that only chains back to the target it hit. So in other words, make it a fully single target attack as a fast DoT with a higher magnitude sleep or whatever it is that causes the mobs to do that caught-in-electricity animation. That way, while it's not doing the conceptually neat chaining between enemies, it stays effective, it doesn't have the XP loss issue, and the set gets a decent higher damage single target attack for those that want burst damage. What would people think of something like that?
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Except if it was DOT then the extra damage would wake them up and cancel out the sleep effect. Same thing that happens with the science origin power, it does damage twice and because of this the sleep is negated most times.
I don't think it's that impossible to fix. Say they changed the power like this.
First they make an invisible, intangible pet. Casting chain induction summons this invisible pet on your location. The pet attacks the target you cast it on (a lightning bolt). It then instantly teleports to that enemies exact location (hovering, in case the enemy is in the air).
It then immediatly attacks an enemy within a certain radius. If it misses or there are no enemies in its radius, it disappears. If it hits with it's bolt, it immediately teleports to that enemies exact location. Rinse/repeat.
Put in the buffable pet patch and apply it to this pseudo pet, and voila, all damage counts towards your exp.
The teleport would of course be instant, and the 'animation' for the lightning bolt attack would be just long enough for the bolt to arc from one enemy to another.
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If they can not find a way to fix it then I would suggest cutting the end cost or raising the base damage since all it will be is a fancy single target attack in terms of Fury and exp gain.
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Heck, one way I'd be happy with for them to fix it would be to make it essentially a version of itself that only chains back to the target it hit. So in other words, make it a fully single target attack as a fast DoT with a higher magnitude sleep or whatever it is that causes the mobs to do that caught-in-electricity animation. That way, while it's not doing the conceptually neat chaining between enemies, it stays effective, it doesn't have the XP loss issue, and the set gets a decent higher damage single target attack for those that want burst damage. What would people think of something like that?
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Except if it was DOT then the extra damage would wake them up and cancel out the sleep effect. Same thing that happens with the science origin power, it does damage twice and because of this the sleep is negated most times.
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That's true, I forgot about that aspect. How about making it a Hold using the same animation then? Or making the sleep take effect only after the DoT is complete or on the last tick of it? Or instead of the sleep/hold animation style, go for a greatly increased End drain style?
Hmm odd, i figured they would have coded it as a pet since that is probably the easiest way to code the power. You create a pet and give it a set AI sequence to do the chain castings. As others have said it would be invisible so vola. Seems easy to me any way, but dont pets reduce your exp or did they fix that ( if not it could be the actual cause of the problem) ?
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Hmm odd, i figured they would have coded it as a pet since that is probably the easiest way to code the power. You create a pet and give it a set AI sequence to do the chain castings. As others have said it would be invisible so vola. Seems easy to me any way, but dont pets reduce your exp or did they fix that ( if not it could be the actual cause of the problem) ?
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Pets don't leech xp - normally.
The problem may be that with the way these quasi pets work, since the power's secondary damages go off the strength of the primary target, it is considered a spawn of the primary target.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Still makes elec melee a bit lethargic as far as single target damage goes. For a comparable set (gives up a lot of single target for AoE) look at Spines.
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Except spines is a LOT different. Spine Burst is decent range AOE attack. Quills is AOE damage aura. Ripper and Throw Spines are both decent cones. Impale is very nice single target ranged attack.
Thunder Strike needs some help in the AOE department, seems smaller compared to some of the other melee AOE attacks. Jacobs Ladder seems smaller then Shadow Maul to most. Chain Induction needs a serious overhaul and hopefully will get it if something can be done.
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Well....comparable, in the sense of what they seem to want to be going for. Somehow I doubt they'll be boosting the single target of the set much, but if the AoE is lacking they'd probably be more likely to look into it. Honestly, I haven't done testing on elec melee much past the early levels.
Culex's resistance guide
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If they can not find a way to fix it then I would suggest cutting the end cost or raising the base damage since all it will be is a fancy single target attack in terms of Fury and exp gain.
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Heck, one way I'd be happy with for them to fix it would be to make it essentially a version of itself that only chains back to the target it hit. So in other words, make it a fully single target attack as a fast DoT with a higher magnitude sleep or whatever it is that causes the mobs to do that caught-in-electricity animation. That way, while it's not doing the conceptually neat chaining between enemies, it stays effective, it doesn't have the XP loss issue, and the set gets a decent higher damage single target attack for those that want burst damage. What would people think of something like that?
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that would kick [censored]
but as the poster below you said the sleep would be broken, make it a hold (much like KO blow and seismic smash have hold components)
i think if it was the elec version of those 2 attacks, that'd be a great single-target attack that most people would love
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Is anyone else really bothered by the fact that the main secondary effect of Elm, i.e. end drain, is still pretty much useless or has someone managed to figure out a way to make it pay off?
edit: Ok, let me make this a little more constructive:
Apologies if this has been suggested before but looking at how lackluster this set is for PvP and how little an effect the end drain seems to have in PvE what about adding a -rec effect to all of the powers?
In addition is there any good explaination as to why Lightning Rod is the single brute attack in any set that does not get buffed by fury? I'm not seeing damage output in the rest of the set that would justify it. Even Burn is getting a rage fix (nice to see a tiny bit of love coming through for /fire).
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Actually, from the EndMod spec'ing camp, with 3 DOs in it, it is starting to show a little promise. I still get my butt kicked by 3 even mobs, but I tear down bosses pretty quick. It is not so much damage mitigation against LTs and minions, but since bosses/heros use more end for their powers, it goes away much quicker.
I'm just hoping it doesn't take more than 2 SOs to have a visible payoff, and considering how low the base damage is even 2 slots for EndMod may be pushing it.
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Actually, from the EndMod spec'ing camp, with 3 DOs in it, it is starting to show a little promise. I still get my butt kicked by 3 even mobs, but I tear down bosses pretty quick. It is not so much damage mitigation against LTs and minions, but since bosses/heros use more end for their powers, it goes away much quicker.
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And remember they changed the way End drain works for I7 (PvE at least)...It now takes a straight percentage no matter what the mob's base end. So if it ake 15% from a minion it will take 15% from a boss. I've been finding most bosses and even some Lts are out of end long before i kill them.
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And remember they changed the way End drain works for I7 (PvE at least)...It now takes a straight percentage no matter what the mob's base end. So if it ake 15% from a minion it will take 15% from a boss. I've been finding most bosses and even some Lts are out of end long before i kill them.
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That's only because Elec/'s single target dmg is so poor, lol.
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FYI, Lightning Rod's Recharge Time will be being reduced.
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to what?
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Actually, from the EndMod spec'ing camp, with 3 DOs in it, it is starting to show a little promise. I still get my butt kicked by 3 even mobs, but I tear down bosses pretty quick. It is not so much damage mitigation against LTs and minions, but since bosses/heros use more end for their powers, it goes away much quicker.
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And remember they changed the way End drain works for I7 (PvE at least)...It now takes a straight percentage no matter what the mob's base end. So if it ake 15% from a minion it will take 15% from a boss. I've been finding most bosses and even some Lts are out of end long before i kill them.
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I got my toon up to 20 this morning and tooled around a little bit in SC. I may seriously have to respec Stamina in sooner than I thought. One on One fights with the NPCs there, I was huffing and wheezing (no end) after one fight. This does not bode well. The endurance drained off with 3 End Mod DOs was not substantial enough to keep going, and do not seem to give any return whatsoever. In order to keep grinding at the same speed, I'll probably have to get stamina until the level where I can get the endurance transfer power, then respec with something else in mind after that.
Damn it dude, I've grinded well past 20, and I can tell you that the 'end drainback' that is advertised is about as good as the blaster's version - i.e. it's more of a random discount of endurance costs of a power than any actual drain.
You just can't count on it to do anything except lower the other guy's endurance. You WILL need stamina until conserve power and power sink, and even then i'd have it so I won't have to depend on those powers.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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Damn it dude, I've grinded well past 20, and I can tell you that the 'end drainback' that is advertised is about as good as the blaster's version - i.e. it's more of a random discount of endurance costs of a power than any actual drain.
You just can't count on it to do anything except lower the other guy's endurance. You WILL need stamina until conserve power and power sink, and even then i'd have it so I won't have to depend on those powers.
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Well, most folks don't usually slot 3 end mods, so I figure I'd go out on a limb and experiment a lil bit.
Now that there's some people who have played this powerset for awhile on test server-- how does it measure up?
It seems like it's nowhere near "martial arts"... What is it comparable to?
I'm really confused on whether or not this is going to be a worthwhile powerset when its released.
Honestly, all signs point to no. Underperforms heavily single-target, and it's aoe isn't all that great either, contingent upon how much they lower Lightning Rod's recharge.
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I've never played one so I have to ask - does Energy Transfer get affected by fury or are you wrong about Lightning Rod?
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Oh yes, Energy Transfer is affected by fury, you haven't really punched someone till you get near-to-full fury, pop 15 or so reds and hit ET. I've only done it once, just to see what it would do and the brave soul who let me test it upon them.. well it put the squish into squishy
Electric Melee merely mirrors the Dev's vision of Brutes: Not in PvP - which should make you happy. Even fire will out perform it. That LR is the only attack in any of the Brute sets unaffected by Fury is a sad joke. If you don't want it to be affected by our inherent power, give it to Tankers I'm sure they'll love it.
Someone had a really cool idea for what could have been an awesome power, a real signature move of the set; and then they gave it a 3 minute recharge and gave it a penalty no other Brute suffers.