Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
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Now that there's some people who have played this powerset for awhile on test server-- how does it measure up?
It seems like it's nowhere near "martial arts"... What is it comparable to?
I'm really confused on whether or not this is going to be a worthwhile powerset when its released.
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Brutes just don't have the raw hitpoints it takes to herd properly, which is what this powerset seems to be all about. What I will do is pop a few purples, gather about 8 +0-+1's around me, drop Thunder strike, chain lightning, and keep lightning field going. This usually takes them down with some mopup to do, maybe 2 left over from the aftermath. I've noticed it takes the same amount of time to take down 1 as it does 8. Bosses go down quicker, I've noticed, because after a point they have no end to swing.
I have yet to move up beyond the base difficulty because I'm constantly resting between every two fights, losing my 1/4 fury bar in the process. It is too halted and the rhythm is off most of the time compared to my Stone/EA brute that I have at 40. It is a much more difficult set to play at regular speed, so I would have to agree it underperfoms below the mark, at least when it comes to drain/endurance cost.
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Bosses go down quicker, I've noticed, because after a point they have no end to swing.
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What does a boss having no end have to do with the speed at which you kill it? Few if any mobs appear to have defensive powers which require endurance.
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What does a boss having no end have to do with the speed at which you kill it? Few if any mobs appear to have defensive powers which require endurance.
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Simply put, the less time spent hittin the boss does, the more time spent hittin your character can do, as opposed to healing, popping greens, whatever. Not to mention you aren't getting hit by acc/dmg/whatever debuffs as well.
That may not have been what that person was talking about, it may just be a psychological effect too.
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Bosses go down quicker, I've noticed, because after a point they have no end to swing.
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What does a boss having no end have to do with the speed at which you kill it? Few if any mobs appear to have defensive powers which require endurance.
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I'm not getting knocked all over the room, for starters. Fury also builds up faster on them as the defensives aren't up, as well as debuffs.. and I dunno.. they just seem to get gacked quicker and don't have end, too.
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Manchuwook:
Well, most folks don't usually slot 3 end mods, so I figure I'd go out on a limb and experiment a lil bit.
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I did that with Short Circuit on my defender, but that's a special case. On that note... is it safe to assume Energy Drain has an animation like the Energy Aura's? A Short Circuit animation would have be a very nice thing to see.
And while I'm dreaming... take out Conserve to make Energy Drain available earlier. Umm and ahh... stick Voltaic Sentinel in there. 
I miss Sparky.
The endo drain sounds like it would be a neat thing to have in PvP or PvE. But it doesn't seem as though it is giving you a good return for your investment. Well you keep experimenting 'cause I'm curious about the results. 
Seriously, if you're sacrificing any damage, recharge, or acc for endmod, you're killing them more slowly, even if they have no end. As far as getting mezzed or knocked down cutting your dps, well, if you don't have complete mez protection you're not really in any shape to be talking about how fast things die anyways.
There is a very remote possibility that end drain is making a boss fight safer, but it is a certainty that slotting attacks for it is making the fight take longer.
If you could drain a boss to 0 at the start of a fight, that would be something, kind of like other sets' mag 4 hold/stun attacks do. That's real damage mitigation. Draining their end halfway through the fight, without a -recovery effect, ain't doing much at all.
EDIT: and how does fury come into play at all? You're saying that without their end, their defenses aren't up (which in almost all cases isn't true, mob defensive powers are usually auto), so you get more fury? News flash, fury has nothing to do with whether or not attacks hit or how much damage they do. Only whether you activated the attack, and who it was activated on.
I'm mostly looking at the possibility of enduring the PvE leveling to get to the PvP portion where drain is supplanting health drain to get past shields and whatnot. With the level boost tomorrow, I can safely shelve the idea and try it out at 40 instead. 
I'm sure the answer to this is probably somewhere in the 23 pages of this topic, but it's easier to just ask: Does Elec Melee do AoE knockDOWN or knockBACK with Thunderstrike and Lightning Rod? Assuming Thunderstrike even kept it's AoE component from the blaster version.
Thunderstrike is AoE Knockdown to -1s. The energy component (2.66 BI) is the AoE damage and it seems to be about 5' from the target.
Not sure on Lightning rod though
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If you could drain a boss to 0 at the start of a fight, that would be something, kind of like other sets' mag 4 hold/stun attacks do.
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I believe you could get close with slotted power sink (especially now that it takes a straight %), then finish him off a few attacks later. Of course, power sink is an electric armor ability, but everyone is pretty much considering the 2 sets together. I wouldn't slot any of the attacks in the electric set for end mod (unless it was for pvp)... maybe chain induction since xp loss sucks anyways, but I don't know if the increased end mod would carry over to the bouncing targets.
Are you suppose to drain and recover end with all attacks or just a few? And if you use enough endurance modifications will that end the the need for endurance reduction enhancements?
As I recall, all attacks drain end, but only occasionally will they return end to you. As such, I'm not sure how reliable they are. If I were you, I'd test it out.
Hopefully someone else who has done this can share their experience.
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As I recall, all attacks drain end, but only occasionally will they return end to you. As such, I'm not sure how reliable they are. If I were you, I'd test it out.
Hopefully someone else who has done this can share their experience.
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I know on my elec blaster I only get end back some of the time - enough to have an effect too.
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As was posted fairly early on in this topic, Slotting End Mods in the attack only increase the end you drain from your opponent. It does not increase the end you get back.
I believe the numbers were something like 30% chance to get some end back, but that amount you get back is fixed and not able to be modified. So, if you attack someone 1000 times, roughly 300 attacks will return a small amount of end (unmodifiable) to you, but all 1000 of your attacks will drain a small amount (modifiable) from your target.
I'd really loved to see drained End from this set returned on a 1-1 ratio so there would be a reason to finally diversify our slotting...
also finally we'd have a set that allows us to NOT be all but forced to take Stamina or slot end reducers...
From the latest patch notes...
Fixed error with Brute Lightning Rod. It now does all Energy damage instead of Smashing damage.
Brute Energy Melee Lightning Rod has had its recharge rate reduced to 90 seconds.
Special Note: A bug is making Lightning Rod recharge at 60 seconds on test server right now. Enjoy it for the now. 
Now that those issues are worked out continue with your rantage.
Well, with the new notes, 90 sec recharge on L-Rod.
At least it can now be used in conjunction with build-up every cycle.
BU 3 rec
LR 3 rec 3 dmg
Not as much as some hoped for, but better nonetheless.
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From the latest patch notes...
Fixed error with Brute Lightning Rod. It now does all Energy damage instead of Smashing damage.
Brute Energy Melee Lightning Rod has had its recharge rate reduced to 90 seconds.
Special Note: A bug is making Lightning Rod recharge at 60 seconds on test server right now. Enjoy it for the now.
Now that those issues are worked out continue with your rantage.
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90 seconds isn't bad. 90 seconds is really good in fact. My own Power Boost is up every fight with just one recharge and its base recharge is 90 seconds. Enjoy the 60 seconds for now though >.>
I think I can live with build up + lightning rod once every 42 seconds (with LReflexes and 3 +0 recharge in BU and LR).
That may just be me though.
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From the latest patch notes...
Fixed error with Brute Lightning Rod. It now does all Energy damage instead of Smashing damage.
Brute Energy Melee Lightning Rod has had its recharge rate reduced to 90 seconds.
Special Note: A bug is making Lightning Rod recharge at 60 seconds on test server right now. Enjoy it for the now.
Now that those issues are worked out continue with your rantage.
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90 seconds isn't bad. 90 seconds is really good in fact. My own Power Boost is up every fight with just one recharge and its base recharge is 90 seconds. Enjoy the 60 seconds for now though >.>
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Woohoo! This rules without question. Gone from once in a while to once a pack (or two if you're real quick). Thanks!
it should be 60 secs base though
90 secs is pretty damn long, and they still haven't increased the damage to compensate
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it should be 60 secs base though
90 secs is pretty damn long, and they still haven't increased the damage to compensate
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Fixed error with Brute Lightning Rod. It now does all Energy damage instead of Smashing damage.
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They did change the base *type* of damage to something that is not as commonly resisted.
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it should be 60 secs base though
90 secs is pretty damn long, and they still haven't increased the damage to compensate
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With Hasten and the inherant in the Elec defense it is up way more often than I could use it. (sure that's one def set - but still)
My biggest issue is with the animation time for Jacob's Ladder. Way too long for the effect imho.
Thunder Strike isn't terribly quick either. I was testing out my Elec/Elec in RV and the damage was certainly lower than I expected. I was running my realistic level 40 respecced build, planning mostly on 50 to get things like BU, possibly Conserve power as well - ---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name:
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Electric Melee
Secondary: Electric Armor
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01) --> Havoc Punch==> Empty(1)
01) --> Charged Armor==> Empty(1)
02) --> Jacobs Ladder==> Empty(2)
04) --> Conductive Shield==> Empty(4)
06) --> Hasten==> Empty(6)
08) --> Thunder Strike==> Empty(8)
10) --> Static Shield==> Empty(10)
12) --> Swift==> Empty(12)
14) --> Super Speed==> Empty(14)
16) --> Health==> Empty(16)
18) --> Grounded==> Empty(18)
20) --> Stamina==> Empty(20)
22) --> Lightning Reflexes==> Empty(22)
24) --> Aid Other==> Empty(24)
26) --> Aid Self==> Empty(26)
28) --> Chain Induction==> Empty(28)
30) --> Lighning Clap==> Empty(30)
32) --> Lightning Rod==> Empty(32)
35) --> Power Sink==> Empty(35)
38) --> Power Surge==> Empty(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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I know I'm missing build up, but my problem was really with the attack chain in general - even with overly long animations of Jacob's Ladder and a relatively slow animation on Thunder Strike, I didn't have a really strong attack chain with 1-2 recharges in each power. The End drain on attacks was hovering around negligible, the single target attack chain, even with Charged Brawl, lacks power. Fury felt slow to build even when beating on mobs. Thunder Strike is the only heavy hitter in the set, and it certainly didn't have the punch I was hoping for.
At one point in RV, 3 Elec/Elec were beating on 2 Granites for what seemed like an eternity, and one of them finally had toggles drop (mind you, with 3 of us spamming him), and even once they were down we didn't have enough damage to take him out before he ran away and re-toggled. Lightning Clap was too slow to catch him, my attacks weren't taking chunks out of his life. Had I been Energy Melee, I'm sure I would have utterly destroyed him.
As I said, I was playing pretty much a PvE build, but I really don't see any major changes I could have made that would make the set really shine compared to the anemic performance I I experienced this morning.
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Now that there's some people who have played this powerset for awhile on test server-- how does it measure up?
It seems like it's nowhere near "martial arts"... What is it comparable to?
I'm really confused on whether or not this is going to be a worthwhile powerset when its released.
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It still has a few quirks to work out of it yet, and could use a minor damage boost to the single target attacks.
With that said, my lvl 20 can rival DM/ in fury building (with Boxing, Charged Brawl, Brawl, and a Havoc Punch thrown in now and then), just not it's DPS. But I'm two lvl's away from Lightning Reflexes, so we'll see.