Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Melee
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:58 in Developers' Corner
I simply cannot believe people's panties are all bunched up over Chain Induction.
Has anybody used it in big herds? How many targets does it it? If it's not all that many I just don't get the fuss. Losing a bit of XP from 4 or 5 mobs in a big herd is not world ending. I honestly cannot believe how pissy everybody is.
And whoever said they should get new engineers is both ignorant and very self-important.
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Thunderstrike... It's "ok". I think that all sets need one big heavy-hitter for PvP, and it would be nice if this was given a bit more... The Blaster version is both AoE and pretty punishing, how would it be unbalancing if the Brute version was the same? As long as it does less damage, and perhaps use more Endurance than Total Focus, whats the harm, right?
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Build Up + 75% Fury bar does a good 3/4ths of the mobs HPs at even level minions for me.. with 2 KBs slotted (no damage). Thunderstrike is one of the few powers I don't actually have as much of a beef with.
thunder strike is fine
i think they should take their failed atempt at Chain Induction and make a heavy (single target) hitter or a ranged like the ones in stone or SS. maybe a healing aoe ( that might be too much) or a single enemy health drain ( siphon life)
sucks that because of this i7 will be pushed back- but then again rather have it working well than a bugged set
Yeah Thunder Strike is okay, it's just a bit surprising to get an attack that is so mechanically different from the blaster version of the same name. As AOEs go it's really not too bad, even compared to Foot Stomp imo (all smashing, where Thunder Strike's AOE is all energy).
I do feel the set is not very good at single-target burst damage, and is pretty much the worst choice for PVP - poor burst damage and no 100% status effect outside of knockdown. The major hole in this set is no analog of KO Blow/Seismic Smash/Total Focus. In terms of burst damage and crowd control effects, Stone and Super Strength are in every way superior sets, except for the large Energy content of Electric.
As with my experience with Blaster's Electric Manipulation secondary set melees, the endurance drain secondary effects on the Brute melees is largely inconsequential.
Someone post the friggin BI on TS, so we can see if it sucks or not.
already posted by me early in the thread, for the first 4 attacks - something like 2.25 smashing on selected target, 2.25 AOE energy up to 10 targets 15 foot radius.
here ya go
5.32 base brawl damage
Charged Brawl:
7.39 Smashing = 1.39 BI
5.02 Energy = 0.94 BI
Total 2.33 BI
Havoc Punch:
11.83 Smashing = 2.22 BI
7.69 Energy = 1.45 BI
Total = 3.67 BI
Jacob's Ladder:
(A bit tricky here since I have 3x training dmg)
27.99 Energy * 0.7 = 19.59 = 3.68 BI
Thunderstrike:
14.79 Smashing = 2.78 BI
14.2 Energy = 2.66 BI
Total 5.44 BI
heh I screwed myself out of a BI! 
Well, lets look at the sets.
Footstomp is SS's ONLY area attack. There is no other way to damage multiple targets than with Footstomp, and it gets it late in the career.
Electric Melee on the other hand at level eight has a cone with a BI of 3.68 (Roughly equal to Footstomp), and a weird AoE-thing with Thunderstrike with 2.66 AoE. Not to mention at 32 it gets a rather powerful PbAoE attack as well...
Hrmn, I dunno. Seems decent to me I guess.
On the other hand, SS also gets Rage, and a 9+ BI Hold in Knockout Blow. Plus LOTS of soft control. Where's Electric Melee's huge-damage single target punch? Where's its damage mitigation? Where's its perma-Rage?
The set is has lots of AoEs, but where's the stuff that'll help you against one big target? An EB, an AV/Hero, a Player?
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Is anyone else really bothered by the fact that the main secondary effect of Elm, i.e. end drain, is still pretty much useless or has someone managed to figure out a way to make it pay off?
edit: Ok, let me make this a little more constructive:
Apologies if this has been suggested before but looking at how lackluster this set is for PvP and how little an effect the end drain seems to have in PvE what about adding a -rec effect to all of the powers?
In addition is there any good explaination as to why Lightning Rod is the single brute attack in any set that does not get buffed by fury? I'm not seeing damage output in the rest of the set that would justify it. Even Burn is getting a rage fix (nice to see a tiny bit of love coming through for /fire).
Oh for PVM it will be okay, plenty of damage mitigation in 3 AOE knockdowns. I don't think the set will have problems in PVE in general. Where it isn't so great is in single-target damage, which is what PVP and boss killing are about. The set will likely be pretty hard to run vs. AVs, with the endo cost on the big signature moves. Unless you are planning on killing AVs with just charged brawl and havoc punch, the cost on the other attacks is scaled by the fact that they're AOE - EVERYTHING in the set is AOE after the first two attacks and buildup.
I've never played one so I have to ask - does Energy Transfer get affected by fury or are you wrong about Lightning Rod?
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It saddens me that it will not see a damage buff. No burst damage = don't expect to kill anything in PVP. I invite anyone to test their or test MY elec/ brute in arena combat and see what happens.
Unless you don't actually care 'bout testing...
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My god... does anyone care about the 90% of the game that is NOT about PVP?
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I've never played one so I have to ask - does Energy Transfer get affected by fury or are you wrong about Lightning Rod?
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I don't see anything in the hero builder to suggest that ET is not affected by fury, but like you I don't know first hand.
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My god... does anyone care about the 90% of the game that is NOT about PVP?
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So is that a 'No, i won't help you test" ?
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It saddens me that it will not see a damage buff. No burst damage = don't expect to kill anything in PVP. I invite anyone to test their or test MY elec/ brute in arena combat and see what happens.
Unless you don't actually care 'bout testing...
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My god... does anyone care about the 90% of the game that is NOT about PVP?
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It's only 90% if you don't like PvP, if you do then it could be as little as 10% that's not about PvP. 
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On the other hand, SS also gets Rage, and a 9+ BI Hold in Knockout Blow. Plus LOTS of soft control. Where's Electric Melee's huge-damage single target punch? Where's its damage mitigation? Where's its perma-Rage?
The set is has lots of AoEs, but where's the stuff that'll help you against one big target? An EB, an AV/Hero, a Player?
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Technically, ThunderStrike should be a PbAoE Knockdown...
Hmm... not really, since you have to play that 90% in order to get enough levels for the PVP build you want.
Also, I made that other comment since every argument on the boards boils down to how good it is in PVP.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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It saddens me that it will not see a damage buff. No burst damage = don't expect to kill anything in PVP. I invite anyone to test their or test MY elec/ brute in arena combat and see what happens.
Unless you don't actually care 'bout testing...
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My god... does anyone care about the 90% of the game that is NOT about PVP?
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Of course they do. But they also want to be great at PvP. Which is what they're saying about ELM. Great for PvE, sucks for Bosses/AVs/Other players.
And remember, EM (considered the best PvP option by most) is also great in PvE.
I too must say I was expecting a bit better from TS and LR. I know ELM gets TS early, but couldn't they maybe increase the ST dmg of it, and lower the AOE dmg of it? Make it a decent ST attack with the bonus of hurting others in the AOE.
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Well it isn't really PBAOE, it's targeted AOE with range of 5 feet 
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Also, I made that other comment since every argument on the boards boils down to how good it is in PVP.
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There are some analogs between PVP and PVM, as I said the Electric Melee set will have problems vs. hard targets with lots of hitpoints e.g. bosses, elites and AVs. 6 of 9 powers are AOE and costs are scaled accordingly, while the single-target damage for these 6 attacks is less than spectacular and the only reliable control effect is knockdown. Pretty much all the other Brute attack sets will do better vs. bosses, elites and AVs.
So I guess ElecM may be favored for the aoes that can be stacked in a row.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Electric/Fire 41+ will likely be exceptionally strong if you can keep endo in you, yeah.
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Oh for PVM it will be okay, plenty of damage mitigation in 3 AOE knockdowns. I don't think the set will have problems in PVE in general. Where it isn't so great is in single-target damage, which is what PVP and boss killing are about. The set will likely be pretty hard to run vs. AVs, with the endo cost on the big signature moves. Unless you are planning on killing AVs with just charged brawl and havoc punch, the cost on the other attacks is scaled by the fact that they're AOE - EVERYTHING in the set is AOE after the first two attacks and buildup.
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Jacob's ladder, like shadow maul, is very usable as a single target attack. Even better I think, as it seems to have a shorter activation time. Not sure about comparitive costs(to shadow maul), but it didn't feel pricy compared to the other first 2 attacks in electric melee.
Still makes elec melee a bit lethargic as far as single target damage goes. For a comparable set (gives up a lot of single target for AoE) look at Spines.
Culex's resistance guide
big difference: shadow maul has a BI of 6. Not 3.7.
Villains are supposed to lose though...