Fu_Leng

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Fury gained per attack / attacked in pve vs:

Minion: 4 / 2

Lt: 4 / 2

Boss: 4 / 2


Sigh... I am sure it will get fixed, hopefully during test.



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Try it on an AV.

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Are players still on the same scale as AV's ? The wording in the patch notes doesn't say.

Look, cut me some slack, you seem a reasonable guy and I'm not saying no no no you can't fix it. My first post in this thread said I saw it comming, but I hope they give peolpe stuck in the pool the option to leave it. There is nothing in these pools that justifies the fact that we are stuck with them. Especially when they're apparently not finished working on them well after going live.

Lets look at it as it shall be for the stalker holds after this change, GW vs BS.

Ghost Widow: acc: 100%, range 80', cost 10.66, activation 2.17 recharge 32 effect: 3.57 mag 8 second hold + 33.6 negative damage

Black Scorpion: acc:105%, range 60', cost 10.66, activation 2, recharge 32 effect: 3.57 mag 8 second hold + 50% run fly and jump speed for 15 seconds 50% recharge rate reduction for 15 seconds disable fly.

So 30 damage and 20' range vs all of that. Mako's isn't much better but has an anti fly built in. The mu lets you stack end drain. Ghost Widows goes from easily the best, to the worst. How many people still have whirlwind in their builds these days? Somewhat less than had it in it's heyday.

The rest of my replies are spent trying to explain that yes I know it's powerful but it's not an instant I win in pvp if you have a clue. Heroes demonstrate that constantly. Would everyone take it if it was left alone? Probably almost everyone so it does have to go (I get that). (Strange how pretty much every scrapper and tanker I meet in RV has FA eh? .

I didn't know it worked the way it did going into the patron arc no, but I had thought it might be special. The fact that he'd said the PPP's would be better, that he'd singled out Soul Storm wasn't something I had missed. Look at whirlwind, they dropped hints that it was better than most people thought and really it was. I guess that's a bad example since they ner.. fixed it also, but it helps to illustrate the point that sometimes not everything a power does is spelled out in bold.

To be honest this isn't unexpected, but it just highlights how unfair being locked into patrons is.

It's not my fault that they screwed up. They had this on test for quite a while, in development even longer and yet it made it through into the live game. Now I'm stuck in a patron pool that is much diminished in it's pvp usefulness and unlike everyone hit by the smoke grenade I'm trapped in it.

Before I took any of my patron powers I read up on them. I checked the Ghost widow thread. No mention of it being bugged there at all. I checked the known issues page. Nothing. If in over 20 pages of discussion about the powers Ghost Widow grants nothing is mentioned about it having a known issue thats due to be fixed then the faint belief that it 'might just work like Ghost Widows' took seed. Her version ignored my integration and eventually after much stupidity I realized that a preemptive bf every 30 seconds would keep me safe from it. The player version is nowhere near that effective.

If they're going to screw up, they should fix their problems properly and thats not just the power it's all the players caught in their wake.

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Powerful in pvp: Yes. Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.

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How is it easily countered by any experienced PvP'er? What about those that don't have a status effect toggle? What about the team that doesn't have an emp or a kin in it. Show me the experienced PvP'er that can easily counter it in that situation.


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So what you're saying is, if a member of your team gets held and they don't have a break free on them then they are doomed and there is nothing you can do to help/save/comfort them in their time of need? Because they would be in exactly the same, apparently unwinnable situation.

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Matt Miller:

The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the “equivalent” powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character

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And under what circumstances are we supposed to believe that he was talking specifically about PvP when he said this? How do we know that he didn't mean that the difference in power was supposed to be reflected in PvE, ie; making Soul Storm a mag 4 hold, allowing one application to hold a boss?

Why are you assuming that it supposed to mean specifically in PvP? Why are you advocating for something that is totally and completely un-fun for anyone other than the person using the power? The way it works now is not balanced, which leads me to believe that though Matt Miller may have made this quote, that he likely wasn't talking about PvP in terms of increasing APP strength and power over EPP's.

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Because it is not a mag 4 hold. It does not affect bosses in 1 application. It doesn't ignore anyones mez protection. It is in no way remarkable other than once it has you, it doesn't let go. You're the one trying to put your spin on what he said. He just said they'd be more powerful than their equivalents on the hero side. It's not a long winded, ambiguous statement. Whatever psychic abilities you have which let you know what Matt Miller meant to say when he said it are your business alone.

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Powerful in pvp: Yes.

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Agreed. In fact, I think that's a gross understatement.

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Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.

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More like; easily countered by anyone who wants to pop BF's like candy just to keep a constant application up because lord knows that if you get caught by a Soul Storm you're done. That's not right, man.

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If you're a squishy in PvP you're vulnerable to holds. If you're a Tanker or a Scrapper then you have nothing to fear from this power unless you get many thrown at you at once. A group of controllers can do the exact same thing to me, they will blow through my mez protection, they will outstrip breakfree's unless you eat them like candy. Starting to sound familiar?

Getting held isn't the end of the line in pvp. It might be if you're out on your own without anyone to help you but whenever that is brought up in any context people scream 'get a team'. The same applies here. CM makes this power as useful as any other hold when you don't possess another to stack on top of it.

Based off your mag 4 statement I'm starting to get the picture that you dont have this power and really don't know much about it other than iyou don't like it, therefore it's got to go.

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We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents.

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I find this piece of information interesting. Who said this and when?

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The Link

Matt Miller:

The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the “equivalent” powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character

That and having also read this: Talkin' 'bout Soul Storm

(relevant part of the interview inserted here):

Will the new power sets unbalance the game a bit to the Villains favor? What is your favorite new power set and abilities?

We certainly hope that there is a balance maintained between the two games, but sometimes it’s like comparing apples to oranges. At the end of the day you have to realize they are both food, with some commonalities like they both have calories and sugar content. We have to play with those commonalities to make sure that things remain balanced between the two games.

My personal favorite Patron Power Pool would be Ghost Widow’s. The Soul Storm ability is simply too awesome for words.
All this made me think that you know, maybe it wasn't a [censored] bug and it was actually just a cool power. Powerful in pvp: Yes. Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.

[edit to insert bit about soulstorm so you dont have to read the whole thing]

The instant your controllers or blasters holds come from a pool with nothing else going for it that you're now locked into for no good reason we can talk about it being 'like any other'.

We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents. This power actually qualified. It makes zero difference in PvE, in PvP it can be effective but anyone who falls victim to it twice is either unlucky or not in the right team.

You're right about the snotty remark. It was uncalled for as this is hardly your fault and I apologise. I'm just annoyed that they have screwed this up but it's hardly anyone outside the dev teams fault and I should remember that despite the gloating.

Please stop saying that you can't resist it. You can't escape it on your own, if it hits you, if you don't have mez protection from some source. Saying it's unresistable makes it sound like you can walk up to a Tank and lol at him as you put the unresistable hold on him - it doesn't work that way.

It was unique. It was cool. It was a little piece of power that wasn't like every hold in the game - thats what made it special and I imagine, so annoying for it's victims.

Inescapable does not mean unresistable. If you have mez resistance from your primary/secondary, a buff, or a break free it doesn't work. If you have a kinetics user around, ID will knock you out of it.

I had to beat GW using the exact same power on me to get it. I managed to do it solo even though her version blows through integration like it isn't there, you just have to use your head.

It's not supposed to be a hold, exactly like it's from an EPP - it's supposed to be like Ghost Widows just without the hundreds of points of damage. If you read the hype it'd be like an EPP but actually more powerful and it actually is - imagine my surprise.

That you lack the imagination or ability to come up with a counter to it is your problem, not mine.

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In PvP soul storm causes effected opponents to spin around, and while in this stasis they can not use a bf. If they use one before hand they will not be effected by either the hold or the ariel acrobatics. I just want an official word or link about this power.

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This is a known bug. A fix is in the works.

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Whoa. Those Stalkers I've seen with that patron are going to be TICKED when that happens and no respeccing out of it. yeesh!

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How do you think I feel.

They could at least make it *hard* to resist.. like Soul Transfer but less powerful.

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I can't say I'm surprised. A patron power that was actually useful. I'm sure they'll do the right thing and offer us all the ability to choose a new patron though right? Since Moonbeam isn't exactly rocking my world and this known issue was well advertised in the GW thread and on the known issues page.

Then again. A 'fix' has been and will forever will be in the works for fury so what.. me worry?

I admit when I first read about the power, it said wasn't affected by fury. Then reading this thread I kind of got the impression that maybe it was, and then in this latest series of posts and the ones I replied to it's swung back to no it's not.

I hope you're right, and it is. If it is, and the reduction in recharge isn't from 180 seconds to 175! but something closer to 30-40 seconds then I'd be happy. Still not a set to PvP with, but at least it'd be fun to play.

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I've never played one so I have to ask - does Energy Transfer get affected by fury or are you wrong about Lightning Rod?

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Oh yes, Energy Transfer is affected by fury, you haven't really punched someone till you get near-to-full fury, pop 15 or so reds and hit ET. I've only done it once, just to see what it would do and the brave soul who let me test it upon them.. well it put the squish into squishy .

Electric Melee merely mirrors the Dev's vision of Brutes: Not in PvP - which should make you happy. Even fire will out perform it. That LR is the only attack in any of the Brute sets unaffected by Fury is a sad joke. If you don't want it to be affected by our inherent power, give it to Tankers I'm sure they'll love it.

Someone had a really cool idea for what could have been an awesome power, a real signature move of the set; and then they gave it a 3 minute recharge and gave it a penalty no other Brute suffers.

To be fair neither do the Dev's at least, if you look forwards to RV :P.

But despite perhaps not being completely in favor of everything he proposes I don't think he's forgotten the poor /EA's. It's based off the damage taken, so while the res brutes would get a constant increase in the bar, they'd be small. /EA's would get less frequent, but larger spikes to the bar since when we do get hit (and unless I'm fighting lots of Whites I get hit pretty frequently) we get hit a lot harder.

It's a nice idea, but I'd like to see how we do with Fury working 'properly' before any major overhauls. I can certainly see where he is comming from though. Getting the same amount of fury from when a minion wiffs me, as opposed to when a Stalker nearly 1 shots me is a little immersion breaking.

I agree with you, though fights with blappers are over so fast one way or the other if they stand and deliver that it's not like going toe to toe with a Scrapper/Tank.

I just dont think they'll do anything about it, other than have a go at fixing fury. Given the effort that must have gone into the PPP's, the Dev's clearly have a very different view of PvP from the people who are in the middle of it, every day.

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The difficulty Brutes are seeing is that in PvP, you are generally not able to stand toe to toe with a target for long, which means the Fury Decay is effectively larger.

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so what are they going to do about that part?

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Nothing, most likely. The fact that our Fury doesn't build properly is something that isn't working as inteded so we might get a fix.

That people dont like to go toe to toe with us is just smart play by other players. Why play to your opponents strengths? The closest we will ever get to them 'helping' with that is the aoe immobs we get in the PPP's.

Brutes are the least effectively mobile fighters in pvp (short of a granite tank) which given the hop about like a bunny on crack nature of pvp isn't really going to change unless they dramatically increase the supression on travel powers in pvp. Even then, people would just respec into sprint/swift/hurdle builds and continue the hop.

Simple Fix: If the player enters a PvP zone, their fury is set to a minimum of 80%, then it should work as intended, all problems solved, happy Brutes everywhere.

Since these Patron Arcs also seem to be our 3rd respec missions, can we expect something like the following?

Will you delve into Ghost Widow’s darkest desires?
- She wants to destroy the Circle of Thorns! Go get em!

Sirocco’s shocking secret!
- Sirocco's shocking secret has been stolen by the Circle of Thorns!, go kill em before they can tell the world!

Mako’s dangerous drive!
- He wants to drive the Circle of Thorns, out of Sharkhead! Go drive em out!

Black Scorpion’s shadowed past?
- Back in college, Black Scorpion was a.. member of the Circle of thorns! Go kill those who remember his shadowy past!

And can we do the Respec without actually having to take any of these powers?