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Claws can use two knockdowns ...which no Inspiration can defend (meaning the status, not the hitting).
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just fyi 3 BFs provide KB/U/D protection.
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Don't confuse the issue with facts!
lets see....
*/eng
*/elec
will wreck a scrapper for sure
*/dev may not count but clever use of trip mine/time bomb will do it.
*/fire has one shotted me with fire sword on my mastermind and stalker. silly uses of hot feet, burn, blazing aura, and fire sword might be able to kill a scrapper.
*/ice just no no no no. */ice has never scared me on any of my villians. ive seen some amazing ice/ice blasters that use ice patch, shiver, and chilling embrace to keep the average stalker off of them, but ^_^ not me.
*/dev and */fire could do it with practice...
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*/fire has one shotted me with fire sword on my mastermind and stalker. silly uses of hot feet, burn, blazing aura, and fire sword might be able to kill a scrapper.
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Only way Im killing you with hot feet, burn and blazing aura is if I can make you sit still for several minutes and you not kill me. Otherwise, impossible. Dont forget Blazing aura and hot feet can both miss. Fire sword is decent, but its brawl index is less then bonesmasher, so I have a very hard believing you were one-hit by it.
Right, but scrapper crits aren't reliable. You don't know when they'll happen.
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A claws scrap with focus and air superiority could juggle that ice/* blaster until they died.
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Actually they can't due to supression. 
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
KD doesn't suppress that well. I can't speak for focus, but I know that the KD in FF's force bolt does not suppress for long enough. If you hit the opponent while he's in getting up animation, you'll send him flying again.
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Wow, rednames actually read PVP General?
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Castle's not just any red-name. Castle's a rebel.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
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I question this assertion.
While scrappers base melee damage may be higher, blasters' attacks have higher BIs, are less resisted, and often seem to have quicker animations. The scrapper critical basically amounts to 5% unresistable damage, which does not compare favorably with blasters' 33% unresistable damage.
In answer to the OP: yes, I would feel better if scrappers were clearly superior to blasters in melee. From a purely balance perspective, blasters should never have an advantage, no matter how short term, over a scrapper, tanker, or brute, in melee range.
(Note that this isn't the same as saying that they shouldn't be able to defeat a scrapper, tanker, or brute.)
Now, if blaster melee damage gets toned down, I would definitely favor buffing them in some other area to compensate -- perhaps a 15% boost to range damage, combined with an increased likelihood of the status effect being applied with their melee attacks.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Straight damage numbers mean absolutely nothing in pvp. You have to take into account burst damage, activation time, end cost, resistances, recharge time, etc.
Let's put it this way. Put a scrapper with no toggles against an /em blaster with no toggles. Have them fight each other with only melee attacks. Who do you think will win?
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What about put a scrapper against an /em blaster without inspirations and who do you think will win? Let's say I pick a MA/Regen scrapper with resilience.
Your situation is just as invalid as mine because it depends on too many variables and unrealistic preconditions. ::shrugs::
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Assuming neither get's mez'd. Just straight up damage.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Straight damage numbers mean absolutely nothing in pvp. You have to take into account burst damage, activation time, end cost, resistances, recharge time, etc.
Let's put it this way. Put a scrapper with no toggles against an /em blaster with no toggles. Have them fight each other with only melee attacks. Who do you think will win?
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What about put a scrapper against an /em blaster without inspirations and who do you think will win? Let's say I pick a MA/Regen scrapper with resilience.
Your situation is just as invalid as mine because it depends on too many variables and unrealistic preconditions. ::shrugs::
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Assuming neither get's mez'd. Just straight up damage.
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If you use the most powerful single target melee'ers of each class, /em and BS, and neither scrapper or blaster has any toggles the BS would win. The only way most blasters can stand toe to toe with scrappers is because of temp inv and FoN and acro and other shields...
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Are you saying they are going to be nerfing powers like Intergration and other mez protections for melee powersets so they are unreliable?
Not to put too fine of a point on it, or offend anyone. But screw that. Why not just scrap those powersets altogether. Idiot ideas like this is what's killing this game and driving people away. I have more to say on the subject but at this point I dont want to risk smackdown by Cuppajo.
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I went and made the important line BOLD and RED
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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This is the one part that is confusing me about _Castle_'s post. Why even give us toggles if we should pretend that we dont have them. Is that the point of being a melee toon is that you have a status protection toggle since you spend most of your time in melee range.
Yes Yes. i understande that toggles will be dropped at some point. I am not talking about that. Since we are melee toons shouldnt those toggles at least give us a little help at least thinking they are providing some kind of protecton instead of us pretending it does?
One more question. Take for instance bonesmasher (since i have had it happen to me). If it is a toggle dropping power technically shouldnt the stun take effect on you on the second attack instead of the intial since your toggle was running. Hence provind you protection from the stun and then a second status attack that they use cause the stun or whatever status effect since you did have protection during the intial attack?
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In answer to the OP: yes, I would feel better if scrappers were clearly superior to blasters in melee. From a purely balance perspective, blasters should never have an advantage, no matter how short term, over a scrapper, tanker, or brute, in melee range.
[/ QUOTE ] Actually, from a purely balance perspective, it kinda makes sense. Risk vs. reward and all that, blasters risk more going into melee and get a bit of a better reward for doing so.
Now on a personal level, I'd perfer it if blasters didn't do as much damage as a scrapper in melee, but outdamaged scrappers in melee from range. Of course, that'd likely break the game, so it's not going to happen.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
That's the exact reasoning behind it. They had to buff the ill-thought out blaster secondaries in beta because there was no point to taking them. Low damage, on an AT with very minimal defense, in the most dangerous combat situation wasn't working.
You're right. They're very unlikely to give blasters more damage in their primaries to compensate for a lessening of melee damage. The last word States gave blasters on their team role was that they're ranged damage, but there isn't a single set that can sustain a truely ranged attack chain. They've been promising to rework the secondaries for nearly a year now, so who knows.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Biggun - I get the feeling he is refering more to PVP than PVE.
Were you have non-mezzing attacks that can toggledrop.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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In answer to the OP: yes, I would feel better if scrappers were clearly superior to blasters in melee. From a purely balance perspective, blasters should never have an advantage, no matter how short term, over a scrapper, tanker, or brute, in melee range.
[/ QUOTE ] Actually, from a purely balance perspective, it kinda makes sense. Risk vs. reward and all that, blasters risk more going into melee and get a bit of a better reward for doing so.
Now on a personal level, I'd perfer it if blasters didn't do as much damage as a scrapper in melee, but outdamaged scrappers in melee from range. Of course, that'd likely break the game, so it's not going to happen.
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QFT.
When Blasters can do scrapper's melee-level damage from real range (not that 20' BS), which is their defined role, then I'd be all for reducing their melee damage capability.
However, since range is the greatest defense one can possibly have against melee sets which are completely incapable of retaliating at all, I doubt that will ever happen.
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What the "risk" to them going into melee with squishies?
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Location powers.
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Hehe, Peritus, how many toons do you play with location powers? Hehe, we all know targeted AOE's are a joke in pvp.
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The last word States gave blasters on their team role was that they're ranged damage, but there isn't a single set that can sustain a truely ranged attack chain.
[/ QUOTE ] Yea. My 50 can chain all her blasts consinuously, but I have waaay more recharge reducers in my blasts than most sane folks would use. The thing that bothers me about the whole 'ranged damage' comment though is that I'm really not sure exactly WHAT ranged damage is. Is it more or less than scrappers? Exactly how much range? Most importantly just why does a team want or need ranged damage?
I PMed the devs asking that a while back, got a read recipt but no response. Didn't figure I'd get one though. All I really want is a response to the last question really. I mean I can understand the role of 'controll', I can understand 'damage', 'tank', 'buff/debuff' are all likewise easy. However, to me 'ranged damage' is just about as generic and as BS a role as 'puller'.
But that's just me.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee.
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No. If you'd said "scrappers have a higher AT damage scalar than blasters in melee," I might have agreed with you. Unfortunately, Blaster melee attacks have faster animations and generally do more damage per attack, which means that blasters tend to actually do more numerical damage than scrappers at melee range.
If you want me to compare attack chains between a typical scrapper and a blapper I certainly will, but I assume that you of all people know the numbers.*
So please don't mislead people like this. 
* I am assuming that the blaster will supplement his melee attacks with short-range blasts in order to achieve a full attack chain.
~Gabriel
devices can own scrappers, especially ice/dev. take away jump/fly and the ice blasts will slow them. you'll always be having a mobility advantage over them and this is huge as we all know. spines may have a chance but i can see a good ice/dev smashing the average spiner
Scrappers typically have 1 or 2 High/Superior damage attack, so they have to either make use of Hasten/recharge enhancements (at the cost of endurance) to be able to increase their DPS.
Blasters ranged attacks also happen to be just as effective in melee as they are at range (Power Blast, Blaze, Etc.) so they have more OMG!tehPonies!! attacks to choose from when constructing a lethal attack chain. Blasters that make use of both their primary and secondary powersets when building an attack chain have an alpha strike that can end a fight with most scrappers. Especially if luck is on their side.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Are you saying they are going to be nerfing powers like Intergration and other mez protections for melee powersets so they are unreliable?
Not to put too fine of a point on it, or offend anyone. But screw that. Why not just scrap those powersets altogether. Idiot ideas like this is what's killing this game and driving people away. I have more to say on the subject but at this point I dont want to risk smackdown by Cuppajo.
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I went and made the important line BOLD and RED
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Yeah, Energy Manipulation is just bonkers. Any set that has that much stuns should actually deal LESS damage than other sets and have LESS of a chance to drop toggles instead of MORE in both cases. Fire should either have the greatest de-toggle chance or highest damage, Energy should have it's de-toggling ability reduced for sure, and possibly deal less damage (relatively speaking) to boot. I don't know about the others.
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Perhaps the biggest defense I have against /EM is I can see it when the pop BU+Aim+PB. The key is neutralizing them while they are in that mode. I never understood why Goku let Frieza go through his transformations??? Beat the guy down while he's transforming.
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Goku let Frieza gather 100% power because he knew he could pwn him either way. Even King Kai says so when Frieza does reach 100% "Ooh...maybe he's not so crazy after all!"
I think I just geeked in PvP General x.x
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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proof that the devs know jack about pvp balance in their own game.
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Claws can use two knockdowns ...which no Inspiration can defend (meaning the status, not the hitting).
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just fyi 3 BFs provide KB/U/D protection.
Virture