Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
Coupla points.
1) 5% in PvP? So other players count as minions for purposes of determining criticals?
2) Also, most blaster attacks are less resisted, being energy/fire/cold, and their base BI is a ton higher than most scrapper powers. For example, MA's three highest damaging attacks - CAK, CK and EC - are 4-ish, 5-ish and 6-7ish BI respectively, and both EMs have attacks at around 5ish, 7ish and 9ish BI - and they have those first two fairly early, at that.
I think that scrappers outdamage blasters in melee over any time period, but blasters are only ever in melee long enough to deliver their super-attacks and kill someone. 
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1) 5% in PvP? So other players count as minions for purposes of determining criticals?
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Yeah really. Didn't you just say in the Brute thread about fury that players counted as AVs for fury building purposes? But they only count as minions for critical chance? That doesn't seem right.
Scrappers out damage blasters in melee.
...over time. On the alpha strike, which is much more important in PvP, I'm not so sure.
Blaster damage is less resisted in general than Scrapper damage, and Blasters have a second damage buff to call on (Aim, which also helps them trivialize Defense-based sets).
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Wow, rednames actually read PVP General?
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1) 5% in PvP? So other players count as minions for purposes of determining criticals?
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Yeah really. Didn't you just say in the Brute thread about fury that players counted as AVs for fury building purposes? But they only count as minions for critical chance? That doesn't seem right.
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Works the same for Controllers/Dominators as well. Imagine if all ATs had Elite... or even Boss level mezz protection before buffs. This standard can't, nor should it, be universal.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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If I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that scrapper mez protect powers (integration, etc.), will be nerfed (again) sometime in the future? And that the primary reason behind this change would be PvP? What about people like myself, who don't engage in PvP combat? Wouldn't this be unfair to them? Or is this strictly a PvP change?
I'm fairly certain he was referring to Blaster toggle dropping.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Straight damage numbers mean absolutely nothing in pvp. You have to take into account burst damage, activation time, end cost, resistances, recharge time, etc.
Let's put it this way. Put a scrapper with no toggles against an /em blaster with no toggles. Have them fight each other with only melee attacks. Who do you think will win?
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I dont know. The reason I bring this up is bc I was on test yesterday in the arena. I was watching EM blappers totally desimate a Broadsword scrapper in melee over and over and over again, dueing. It was just sad to see, the scrapper couldnt perform his function at all. That alone tells me there is something seriously wrong with roles.
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But you have to put this in perspective....you're talking about ONE set of blasters ...not blasters. Dark Melee Scrappers can slap two status effects on a Blaster...both of which immobilize them.
Claws can use two knockdowns ...which no Inspiration can defend (meaning the status, not the hitting).
Spines has Impale..etc...etc.
The problem is inspirations allow you plug the "balancing" holes. A /Regen could pop a bunch of +DEF or +RES inpsirations to survive the alpha
Perhaps the biggest defense I have against /EM is I can see it when the pop BU+Aim+PB. The key is neutralizing them while they are in that mode. I never understood why Goku let Frieza go through his transformations??? Beat the guy down while he's transforming.
I've fought /EM blappers. And while the margin for error with them is small..it's not zero. I went 1/5 in Warbug with my DM/SR and neither of us using Insp compared to my 0-Infinity against SS/EA or EM/* stalkers. More imporantly, I've only seen /EM achieve that kind of effectiveness. /El gets close...and Ice can be hell for squishies, but only /EM can consistently flatten you in three attacks.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Are you saying they are going to be nerfing powers like Intergration and other mez protections for melee powersets so they are unreliable?
Not to put too fine of a point on it, or offend anyone. But screw that. Why not just scrap those powersets altogether. Idiot ideas like this is what's killing this game and driving people away. I have more to say on the subject but at this point I dont want to risk smackdown by Cuppajo.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
Though it's a good thing that blasters out burst-damage scrappers, and not the other way around. Having a scrapper that can consistently 2-shot squishies would be terrible (and why scrappers should never get EM). Yeah, they can 2-shot people now, but they depend on crits to do it, which isn't exactly consistent.
Ill take 33% unresisted dmg with 100% of my attack opposed to 100% extra dmg 5% of the time. The .25 mod for scrappers are resisted.
No matter what justifications there are with toggles, protections, and dmg types, the bottom line is a blappers with totally wreck a scrapper toe to toe in melee. And if these are the factors that make blasters better at melee, dontcha think it needs fixing? Is nerfing toggle dropping enough?
I'm pretty sure he's referring to toggle-drops. As in, a scrapper vs. a blaster, don't go in relying on your mez protection to keep you safe from mezzes, because it'll be dropped.
Ugh... No kidding. I'm waiting for the "Castle says Integration is getting nerfed!!!" thread to show up in the Scrapper forum.
He meant toggle drops guys! Read the paragraph in context!!!
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Straight damage numbers mean absolutely nothing in pvp. You have to take into account burst damage, activation time, end cost, resistances, recharge time, etc.
Let's put it this way. Put a scrapper with no toggles against an /em blaster with no toggles. Have them fight each other with only melee attacks. Who do you think will win?
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What about put a scrapper against an /em blaster without inspirations and who do you think will win? Let's say I pick a MA/Regen scrapper with resilience.
Your situation is just as invalid as mine because it depends on too many variables and unrealistic preconditions. ::shrugs::
or just give scrappers energy melee tanks have it
blasters have it brutes have it stalkers have it and
dom's have it and pbs has some form of it so its
only wright that the scrappers get energy melee
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Are you saying they are going to be nerfing powers like Intergration and other mez protections for melee powersets so they are unreliable?
Not to put too fine of a point on it, or offend anyone. But screw that. Why not just scrap those powersets altogether. Idiot ideas like this is what's killing this game and driving people away. I have more to say on the subject but at this point I dont want to risk smackdown by Cuppajo.
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I think you guys are reading what Castle said wrong. He may not be implying that they are nerfing mez protection for scrappers but may be reffering to toggle dropping. Preted that you don't have the protection because someone may drop your toggles, so if they do carry some breakfrees and whatnot to combat this. Just another way to look at what he said.
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Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
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Straight damage numbers mean absolutely nothing in pvp. You have to take into account burst damage, activation time, end cost, resistances, recharge time, etc.
Let's put it this way. Put a scrapper with no toggles against an /em blaster with no toggles. Have them fight each other with only melee attacks. Who do you think will win?
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What about put a scrapper against an /em blaster without inspirations and who do you think will win? Let's say I pick a MA/Regen scrapper with resilience.
Your situation is just as invalid as mine because it depends on too many variables and unrealistic preconditions. ::shrugs::
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Lets say I pick a Elec or Ice/Nrg blaster that hits you with the hold first and queue's up Bonesmasher when they enter melee.
I think what ghost is talking about is the disparity between sets. Long rooting animations are killer in PvP and not all blasters are /Nrg, Elec, or Dev with TP Foe.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
I could be reading this wrong, but after seeing some of the nerfs handed down to us by the devs. I want to know for sure. That's all I ask. Let's not forget ED, or the Hammi O nerf, or any of the other nerfs that have been handed down since CoH went live.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
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Have them fight each other with only melee attacks.
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However, one of his preconditions was that they'd only melee not use range attacks. Because if not then that scrapper could easily be a spines or a claws scrap. Then it would depend on who fired first. A claws scrap with focus and air superiority could juggle that ice/* blaster until they died.
My point is that the matchup ghost refers to depends on a lot of preconditions that you just don't see against experienced players. Just as my example can be as easily countered (as you just pointed out).
I agree with the point about disparity in sets.
Quiet Ninja <----- one shotted by a BU+HS (crit) from a broadsword scrapper. in warburg buffs at max on villain side, dont know about hero side, however that resistance buff didnt do a damn thing.
I 2-shot blasters normally though and have only died from defiance a few times when the followup missed. and taking 500 burst damage from a blaster in melee and getting killed before you can finish them off doesnt make sense to me seeing as how i only have about 860 hp's in WB, had i had blaster hp's i would have won im sure.
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the bottom line is a blappers with totally wreck a scrapper toe to toe in melee
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3/5 of the secondaries will not wreck a scrapper. The main culprit for this is /em. And being that we see them so much, it feels like more of a problem then it really is. Do we want to nerf all blaster secondaries because of /em? I should hope not.
Scrappers get more hitpoints, criticals that seem to happen to me a lot more then 5%, mez protection (good luck brawling off /sr's), and past lvl 41 they arent going to miss you. I think they have plenty of advantages in melee over blasters.
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What the "risk" to them going into melee with squishies?
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Location powers.
Virture