[ QUOTE ]
Here's another post about Circuit_Boy's fictional underground organization of the "Stalker Defense League", led by our guildmaster, _Castle_.
Here
[/ QUOTE ]
Oooh. Can I join?
Also, adding in my two cents worth. This may be the only thing I've disagreed with _Castle_ so far - blasters do MORE melee damage than scrappers. For instance, check their BI - /elec and /EM blappers get a quick-spam attack that does 5.44 BI of damage, a slightly slower, but still pretty fast attack that does 7.66 BI of damage, and a strong as hell but slow attack that does around 9 BI.
By contrast, let's take a scrapper powerset - MA, for instance. Our quick-spam attack does...2 BI. One of our medium attacks does 4-5 BI. Our big attack does about 6-7 BI. Sure, we have a few more, but all they do is make chains longer. And don't tell me blasters can't maintain good melee attack chains because of less attacks - their melee attacks animate fast (except for the finishers) and recharge long enough for them to, and if not, you can always pad out the chain with quick ranged attacks (Ice, anybody?)
The only scrapper powerset that can put out damage on a level with elec or EM is Broad Sword, and it's a LOT slower. That, and all the damage it does is lethal.
Also, I'd gladly take doing mostly energy damage + 30% unresistable in PvP over a 5% crit.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Convieniently for you the "Nerf Blappers" thread was deleted.
I can however ask kali magdelene to verify the fact that not only did you announce that you hold this fabricated "Melee Community" responsible for nerfing the blaster AT across the board, but you made several posts specifically re-instating that this is indeed your belief.
She was apart of the conversation I was refering to, and will probably remember it quite well based on the nigh illogical and obviously antagonistic quality of your language.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not really comfortable getting drawn into this.
It might be a good idea for people to take a couple steps back, reconsider what they're saying and why, and then approach the discussion without carrying baggage in from other discussions.
[/ QUOTE ]
Understandable that your not comfortable getting drawn into a back and forth between people.
Bad choice on my part in doing so - my apologies.
Selfishly I sited you as a reference simply because I remember you being in the conversation without even thinking about the fact that I'd be drawing you into an old debate without asking you first.
Unfortunately pride can get the better of us sometimes.
Im certainly no exception to that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's another post about Circuit_Boy's fictional underground organization of the "Stalker Defense League", led by our guildmaster, _Castle_.
Here
[/ QUOTE ]
Oooh. Can I join?
Also, adding in my two cents worth. This may be the only thing I've disagreed with _Castle_ so far - blasters do MORE melee damage than scrappers. For instance, check their BI - /elec and /EM blappers get a quick-spam attack that does 5.44 BI of damage, a slightly slower, but still pretty fast attack that does 7.66 BI of damage, and a strong as hell but slow attack that does around 9 BI.
By contrast, let's take a scrapper powerset - MA, for instance. Our quick-spam attack does...2 BI. One of our medium attacks does 4-5 BI. Our big attack does about 6-7 BI. Sure, we have a few more, but all they do is make chains longer. And don't tell me blasters can't maintain good melee attack chains because of less attacks - their melee attacks animate fast (except for the finishers) and recharge long enough for them to, and if not, you can always pad out the chain with quick ranged attacks (Ice, anybody?)
The only scrapper powerset that can put out damage on a level with elec or EM is Broad Sword, and it's a LOT slower. That, and all the damage it does is lethal.
Also, I'd gladly take doing mostly energy damage + 30% unresistable in PvP over a 5% crit.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
Like I mentioned before:
I fight scrappers in SC and WB a lot.
Never has one scrapper *ever* been able to defeat me in 4 attacks.
Nor does fighting a scrapper require you to pop a BF prior to an encounter to safeguard oneself from thier defensive power-set being trivialized - to be competative.
Popping a BF *still* doesnt stop a melee player's defensive set from being trivialized - it just stops the status effect that also 90-100% of the time - lands.
This is with */EM primarily, sometimes */El-M
Which is what you *mostly* see in PvP - yet another indication of this broken mechanic outshining other secondaries.
It's not enough that defensive sets can already be defeated fairly easily with a few stacked holds and little to no defense against confusion and fear?
I dunno - call me jaded.
The toon's ive decided to play all have fairly ineffectual or broken inherent abilities in PvP.
Either way - detoggles are getting adjusted, and rightfully so.
The issue that needs to be adressed is what the hell are blaster's going to do afterward - since many have become dependant on the broken de-toggle mechanic - to be competative?
Because contrary to popular belief - many among us dont want any other AT's getting nerfed, because many among us know what getting "adjusted with a small tweak" means - and dont want it happening to anyone else.
To me the answer is the unresistable damage component.
In my experience - dropping toggles is far, far more powerful than a 5% crit chance.
Would lowering the detoggle chance to 5% and raising the unresistable damage component of all blaster attacks to say 40+% be a fair solution?
I dunno - Im fairly ignorant to how a blaster plays - but highly experienced at fighting them.
Unresistable damage is nothing to scoff at.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, adding in my two cents worth. This may be the only thing I've disagreed with _Castle_ so far - blasters do MORE melee damage than scrappers. For instance, check their BI - /elec and /EM blappers get a quick-spam attack that does 5.44 BI of damage, a slightly slower, but still pretty fast attack that does 7.66 BI of damage, and a strong as hell but slow attack that does around 9 BI.
[/ QUOTE ]
We're talking about two of the five secondaries here. Overall, blasters do not do more damage then scrappers in melee. Period. I'll bring my /fire blaster, you bring any scrapper and we'll see who comes out on top. Same with /ice, same with /dev.
Everbody knows that /em is overpowered for ALL sets. It remains the same for blasters like it does for everybody else.
And for people nerf-calling Blasters, have you even tried playing one in PvE, especially in the 40s? They are very much a glass cannon and get blown away by scrappers and controllers.
Im sick of people nerf-herding on ATs they have little to no experience with.
[ QUOTE ]
Scrappers out damage blasters in melee. Blasters AT mod is 1, while scrappers is 1.125. Scrappers also get unresistable criticals of 2x damage 5% of the time, which can be compared to Blasters 33% unresistable damage.
Energy Melee's Stuns coupled with toggle dropping pretty much make the damage a secondary effect. While the blasters (who have little or no mez protections) are used to functioning with break frees active, most scrappers are not, as they rely on their inherent protection powers to keep them safe.
In other words, despite your toggle powers protections, pretend you don't have them and prepare based on that -- because those protections will be knocked down at some point.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) This post gives the example of 1v1. The devs have stated on more than one occasion that this game isn't balanced for such a scenario.
2) The example that is given excludes inspirations. Currently there is no form of PvP that gives such an option.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
Blasters are going to get walloped by the upcoming toggle-dropping nerf.
And really, that's enough for me.
But /EM is too powerful, for blasters or stalkers. It's impressive on my brutes, but most squishies have a pretty good chance against me if they play smart.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
[ QUOTE ]
Aid Self gives you resistance to Disorient. And Health resists Sleep. Although resists arent protection.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the point. Cutting mezzing from 20 seconds down to 10 doesn't help you survive at all. Preventing being mezzed, would.
Mez resistance only helps in PvE against "incidental mezzing" in a team, where you get mezzed and then the mobs leave you alone. Doesn't help when soloing, and doesn't help in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
And for people nerf-calling Blasters, have you even tried playing one in PvE, especially in the 40s? They are very much a glass cannon and get blown away by scrappers and controllers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember we are on the PVP forums. If EM is overpowered, then it needs addressing.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People that defend Blaster's melee attacks always say that there is risk for them going into melee but you have to realize that your melee attack has a status effect on it which makes that risk really low.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not all of the melee attacks have status effects, and not all of those that do have status effects have reliable effects. One secondary doesn't have a single melee attack with any kind of status effect at all.
And yes, the status effects do reduce risk. They should make it easier to manage risk. Blasters have no defenses. To make up for it, they need offense that can mitigate damage in the process of defeating enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither does the melee ATs when all of their toggles are dropped.
[/ QUOTE ]
Irrelevant. Toggle-dropping is getting tweaked in issue 7. Until I7 is on test, we don't know how it's getting tweaked.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
3/5 of the secondaries will not wreck a scrapper. The main culprit for this is /em. And being that we see them so much, it feels like more of a problem then it really is. Do we want to nerf all blaster secondaries because of /em? I should hope not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said!
I will be sure to remember this next time I say "nerf Blappers." There may be some /Ice and /Fire Blasters out there who also consider themselves 'Blappers'. 
So we know EM is the culprit. So nerf it. Listen, I'm not a nerf herder, but I play a few Rad toons. We've been nerfed to high hell and back. I never complained once. Rad was the "EM" of the 'troller and defender sets. But I excepted it b/c I knew how good it was. I dont think just toning down toggle dropping is enough for EM, they need to take a real hit for balance. Just like Rad did, just like PFF is for MMS.
Experience tells me that scrappers crit more in the range of 15% in pvp, cause it happens to me quite often. But, that is purely subjective so feel free to dismiss it.
Blaster that rely on toggle drops to be effective will take a servere hit in pvp. Good, they deserve it as do stalkers that love using the broken aoe nature of placate. Neither change will hurt a good player in the least.
How do I feel about nerfing /em. I guess I would accept a decrease in their ability to stack stuns. Like 20%on bonesmasher, 10%on energy punch kinda deal. Keep TF and the stun power as is though. This would have to be for all AT's that have access to /em though to be fair.
Really though, I don't have a problem with /em as is right now.
Give /em blasters energy transfer and then there would be cries of doooooom. And why not? they have more hp's than stalkers so would potentially be better candidates for the power. Plus ET would help blasters activate and utilize their dev given inherent lol 
. (please don't respond to this paragraph, it is purely in jest).
Tog dropping is already being adjusted in I7, but sadly unless it is completely removed (which it isn't) there will still be people that whine about it happening to them. Think about it, when TD's get adjusted melee AT's will think they have to bring bf's along even less against a blapper. So then when they eventually get mezzed during the match they will cry doooom again.
Lastly, a well played spine/regin should really never lose to even a well played ice/em blaster. They hop around just as much as the blaster, do dot damage thus making aid self harder to use, crit occasionally, have massive hp's, a non-inturruptable heal, use pre-emptive bf's, and have high damage (though not neccessarily as high as the blaster).
Nerf teh spine/regin? No thank you, it is just a powerful offensive pvp combo that makes the battle field more fun.
Just like /em stalkers, /blappers, ice/em tanks, angry(bit of fury) /em or /SS brutes, broadsword scraps etc. etc.
High damage AT's are here to stay in pvp. Good players will always make them look incredible, just like bad players will make them look silly. Adjust, learn, adapt. Look at your play style/build and see what changes you can make to ensure that you have a better chance against your toughest opponents, rather than maximize your potential against toons that you already pummel. Difersify yourself instead of developing your nerfing skills. In all fairness, somethings are broken and need to be fixed, but pages and pages of nerf this nerf that gets old quickly.
Just my opinion
Frosticus
[ QUOTE ]
thank you sir hopefully now the devs will turn a deaf ear to post like this
Sounds like most are complaining about the mez potential of /em for blasters. /elec, which would be the second biggest culprit has some >1second sleeps and powerful knockback, but hardly anything to write home about.
/em in all forms that AT's have access to causes problems for many people it is a very strong set.
The biggest problem that I have when fighting melee toons with my ice/elec is their stuborn attitude that they can just stand there and take my full alpha attack chain. Just move around for even a few seconds (doesn't even have to be the full 9seconds) suddenly our damage potential decreases dramatically for every second that we are not attacking while under the buff of aim and bu.
Any toon in the game hits aim or bu and I move around for a few seconds to minimize their effectiveness. It is really not complicated, or even hard to execute.
To address toggle dropping in the blaster secondaries: I don't play to rely on it. Meaning I don't fire off freeze ray then havoc punch them so they are held (I've done it to one scrapper and it was stupidly easy). /em blasters get more effect out of it because of the stuns and will thus be impacted the most by the changes.
I will be the first to admit that toggle dropping for blasters is overpowered right now (having both received and handed out beatings from the mechanic). That being said, even when they adjust TD's /em and /elec blasters are still gonna be killing like wild animals.
Whether your togs drop or not the damage output that some blaster builds can pull off while under the buff of aim+bu is scary. I'm not saying you have to move around like you do to avoid stalkers, simply move a bit when a blaster lines you up. If he has bright pink fists, chow a bf and take a few evasive steps for a few seconds.
The only time my blaster or corruptor get killed by blappers is if they blind side me while i'm stuck in a long animation or attacking someone else. If they get two good melee hits off they can usually finish me with range. That is with a squishy and a squishy+a few hp's, if I had meat shield hps like a brute, tank, or dull pained scrapper I don't really see any reason to die from a blapper alpha unless you stand there like a fool, or think that you are somehow above eating bf's. Even when they reduce TD's melee AT's will still get stunned or mezzed from blasters.
Adapt to the overpowered mechanic now and you will be even stronger once it is adjusted in your favor.
That is what my experience tells me on the matter anyway, take it as you will
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT I have 2 friends in game both have scrappers with almost the same build. One of whom is in my SG is stuburn and likes to play the stand in one spot fight toe to toe I'm one bada$$ I dont need to run scrapper. The other having played a squishy is always moving and jousts and brings emergency BFs and greens. Guess which one dies more in sirens and WB and arena....... stuborness to adapt only leads to frustrations and inevitably calling for nerfs somewhere down the road.
I'm pretty sure after toggle drops and the nerf to WW melle AT's will still look for something to complain about just take a look at this thread the 2 above changes haven't even gone live and a new round of blasters melle doing to much damage and must be nerfed has alrdy begun. Good thing castle alrdy refuted it