bikiniblaster

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chewyboywa:

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Stalkers only do .6 range damage, and the activation/interrupt time for snipes are increased in Stalker's patron pool. Personally I am quite disappointed with villain PPP's altogether, heroes still has it good with their already high damage ATs and mez resistance/defense in Blaster and Troller epic pools. (emphasis mine)

I have to admit though, it puts a big grin on my face for those newbies rolling an ice/energy Blaster just to get by easy in PvP and those days are numbered with the toggle drop changes. I will now go back to playing my ice/ice Blaster (deleted my energy/elec) more for the challenge and not for the stupidity of toggle dropping and ending the foe's day within 3 shots which really gets freaking boring after a while, it will involve much more ranged tactics and some of the secondary powers has immob, powerboost, debuff, etc. that will help.

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Please, point me to the "mez resistance" power in the Blaster epic pools.

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Yeah I second that I'd like to know where this mez resistence in epic blaster powers is hope he/she doesn't mean FON, if its then I hope the Devs put a special bulletin in big burning red caps dispelling this myth.

Ok stlakers get the bigger melle BI index in thier snipe attack seems weird to me but whatever, I guess them being the king of melle burst damage it fits. Now isn't it reasonable to give blasters high BI damage in thier range attack now that blasters are the RANGE AT.

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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.

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That may be true, but /em currently is a good balancer for regen stalkers and scraps.

I'm not saying nerf one for the other though, believe me. I do think /em in some capacity may need some tweaking. We'll be able to tell a little better after the toggle drop changes. I would much rather see the other secondaries raised somehow to compensate for the disparity.

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Regen isn't particularly phased by toggle dropping, all droping Integration does is mean the stalker/scrapper needs a break free and loses a minescule portion of their healing ability, otherwise, all their powers are clicks or Autos.

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nerf regen then?

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CoX will be a better place with EM adjusted.

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Go home, you nerfherder. Blasters have been literally dying for the other secondaries to be brought up to EM standards. Nerfing EM is the wrong direction to go, bringing other secondaries up to EM standard is the right direction.

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exactly!!!!!!!!!!

If they want to nerf /eng or /elc then they better start giving some serious damage buffs to all the primaries yes even ice to compensate couse right now the way to kill high res, high hp, high def AT's is by supplementing range attacks to the secondary melles to form a decent attack chain.

I second that

Dont know anything about doms so wont touch that. Would you say that (1)giving defenders the ability to heal and buff themselves would help them?

(2) give blasters more damage and range alrdy

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CB, the best PvP'ers in the game play on the test events. Even given the fact that not all high skill level PvP'ers are there, it is by far the highest concentration of skilled PvP players in the game. We don't even have to look at scores, we can look at team composition of the best teams an it becomes readily apparant that Blasters (specifically Blappers) _are_ the melee AT of choice. Scrappers are a distant second, ironically the "best" Scrapper set, Spines/Regen, depends on in part on its ranged attack to be effective. It is true that the recent change to Whirlwind and the coming change to toggle dropping may shift the balance, but currently Blappers are king of melee. If you disagree or think that the events on test don't represent the highest skill level PvP in the game, you really ought to check out the events being scheduled by Labrynth:
Test League

and Terpman:
1v1 Tourney

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Hey Thor I've met you and your LOTD vg lots in sc and WB fun times. About the labyrinth tourney I dont think that I have the time to register for a team but I'm interested in becoming one of the free agents just on the off chance I might be able to sub do you know how that is handled?
I agree with you arena test is the higest comglomeration of the highly skilled pvpers, and although it maybe that blappers tend to get the higer scores out there it is because they are heavily supported by thier team especially a pocket empath and kenetics is really good. A blapper with no support will probably do no better than a scrapper and infact will be more easily killed imho.
The change to WW and TD will really impact the blappers and not just because it affects them directly but the ww change to thieir support who are now going to be more vulnerable. And like you said might shift the balance to melle AT's.
My personal opinion on the scrapper vs blasters thing is that blasters should be tops in kills when teamed properly it says it in the AT description in teams scrappers are overshadowed by blasters.
Scrappers being the jack of all trades should be just that average on teams, they die less have better protection so they should be killing less. And this should go for every melle AT out there stlakers are a breed onto their own. Like Ohms said damage is all blasters have going for them so in a good team that can support them they should be tops in kills and damage. It's just my opinion though

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Sounds like most are complaining about the mez potential of /em for blasters. /elec, which would be the second biggest culprit has some >1second sleeps and powerful knockback, but hardly anything to write home about.

/em in all forms that AT's have access to causes problems for many people it is a very strong set.

The biggest problem that I have when fighting melee toons with my ice/elec is their stuborn attitude that they can just stand there and take my full alpha attack chain. Just move around for even a few seconds (doesn't even have to be the full 9seconds) suddenly our damage potential decreases dramatically for every second that we are not attacking while under the buff of aim and bu.

Any toon in the game hits aim or bu and I move around for a few seconds to minimize their effectiveness. It is really not complicated, or even hard to execute.

To address toggle dropping in the blaster secondaries: I don't play to rely on it. Meaning I don't fire off freeze ray then havoc punch them so they are held (I've done it to one scrapper and it was stupidly easy). /em blasters get more effect out of it because of the stuns and will thus be impacted the most by the changes.

I will be the first to admit that toggle dropping for blasters is overpowered right now (having both received and handed out beatings from the mechanic). That being said, even when they adjust TD's /em and /elec blasters are still gonna be killing like wild animals.

Whether your togs drop or not the damage output that some blaster builds can pull off while under the buff of aim+bu is scary. I'm not saying you have to move around like you do to avoid stalkers, simply move a bit when a blaster lines you up. If he has bright pink fists, chow a bf and take a few evasive steps for a few seconds.

The only time my blaster or corruptor get killed by blappers is if they blind side me while i'm stuck in a long animation or attacking someone else. If they get two good melee hits off they can usually finish me with range. That is with a squishy and a squishy+a few hp's, if I had meat shield hps like a brute, tank, or dull pained scrapper I don't really see any reason to die from a blapper alpha unless you stand there like a fool, or think that you are somehow above eating bf's. Even when they reduce TD's melee AT's will still get stunned or mezzed from blasters.

Adapt to the overpowered mechanic now and you will be even stronger once it is adjusted in your favor.

That is what my experience tells me on the matter anyway, take it as you will

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QFT I have 2 friends in game both have scrappers with almost the same build. One of whom is in my SG is stuburn and likes to play the stand in one spot fight toe to toe I'm one bada$$ I dont need to run scrapper. The other having played a squishy is always moving and jousts and brings emergency BFs and greens. Guess which one dies more in sirens and WB and arena....... stuborness to adapt only leads to frustrations and inevitably calling for nerfs somewhere down the road.
I'm pretty sure after toggle drops and the nerf to WW melle AT's will still look for something to complain about just take a look at this thread the 2 above changes haven't even gone live and a new round of blasters melle doing to much damage and must be nerfed has alrdy begun. Good thing castle alrdy refuted it thank you sir hopefully now the devs will turn a deaf ear to post like this

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I see the thread in the General PvP section is still going strong with all the melee talking points being trotted out.

It will all come up here again too I am sure.

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Meh, let the debate start if it's going to. I for one, am not getting sucked into it again.

As far as I'm concerned, _Castle_ and the other devs in charge of balancing know our issues, and will work 'em out after I7 and probably by I8, I'm thinking.

I really do hope they listen to our more reasonable suggestions.

For instance, 20' attacks to 50' and 40' cones to 60' (and a minimum range of 50' for any "ranged" blaster attack) wouldn't break anything, and would almost definitely fix a lot of stuff.

I don't know about you guys, but I trust _Castle_ to fix our issues the way he fixed Stalker/Scrapper issues.

If new Claws (which I'm actually excited to play now) is an indication of anything, I'm betting we'll see some positive changes to the more eyebrow raising problems with our sets.

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set the bar a little higer arc minimum should be 80 we are the range AT after all, more dam in primaries even ice, faster activation times and no rooting in animations to compensate should you fire on the move there should be a slight acc penalty.

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As long as toggle dropping is reduced to where there is a chance that even with a successful hit from a toggle dropping power that there is a chance that no toggles will drop and an even slimmer chance that multiple toggles will drop I will be happy. Nothing should be 100%.

I don't believe that blappers really fear going into melee at all because all I see is blappers charging at any and all visible targets with bonesmasher in pvp. That is not what someonewho is scared to do something would do.

I also do not think the same attack that drops your mez protection should be able to stun you in the same hit. They should at least have to hit you with another hit to do that.

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Since toggle dropping is gong to be toned down by a large margin, it would be nice if instead of it droping random toggles it specifically targets the opponents mez protection, then shields, then debuff powers, then travel powers in that order.

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thats a buff not a debuff to toggle dropping....how about you blappers just fight like the rest of us

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toggle dropping is getting nerfed by a large margin according to castle numbers to be announced, thats a huge debuff. targetting specific toggles ie like mez protection etc with the lower nerfed percentage in I7 is only a miniscule buff. so overall it's a debuff...... sure I would like to fight like you with your mez protection and defences sign me up please.

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As long as toggle dropping is reduced to where there is a chance that even with a successful hit from a toggle dropping power that there is a chance that no toggles will drop and an even slimmer chance that multiple toggles will drop I will be happy. Nothing should be 100%.

I don't believe that blappers really fear going into melee at all because all I see is blappers charging at any and all visible targets with bonesmasher in pvp. That is not what someonewho is scared to do something would do.

I also do not think the same attack that drops your mez protection should be able to stun you in the same hit. They should at least have to hit you with another hit to do that.

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Since toggle dropping is gong to be toned down by a large margin, it would be nice if instead of it droping random toggles it specifically targets the opponents mez protection, then shields, then debuff powers, then travel powers in that order.

if you get more people to post the same thread over and over again in all the forums I bet you can get blasters nerfed some more hell you might even get it implemented in I7 why wait till tommorow if you can do it today lol.......

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//As it stands now, A brute without his defensive toggles, is just a corruptor with 500 more hitpoints, as most brutes do not take passive resists, because the cost effectiveness of them are in the bottom of the barrel. Is this the blasters fault? Of course not. Is it the systems fault? You're darned right it is.

A) Brute's toggles are on for at the very least the first attack, and will mitigate that damage.
B) A brute choosing to skip his passives and then complaining because he doesn't have any protection when toggles aren't running impresses me not at all; you cannot expect the passives to be in the same league as toggles, because they are auto and have no cost. Barking up the wrong tree here, I play tanker extensively and I'm familiar with people looking for powers to skip in their defense set.
C) The brute, again, does not have to stand there like a bozo and do nothing but eat damage while his toggles are down; he can counter-attack, or retreat and retoggle.
D) "just 500 more hitpoints" is a GIGANTIC advantage in pvp. Don't poo-poo this and write it off like it's nothing.

//A tactical withdrawl as you might be alluding to, is nigh unaccomplishable without solid communication. The only groups that can pull that off in MMOs, are SGs with voice comms.

Playing in 3rd person and observing the fight are all it takes. If you see Jimmy the Blaster running/jumping at you and you're a corruptor, you probably don't want to stand there and eat his alpha.

//And I was in the military, so for me the difference is key. Perhaps why I said "Running" isn't a defense. I could have added that a tactical withdrawl is fine, but, that still doesn't ignore the fact that since the field is pretty level when it comes to mobility between villains and heroes, this is much harder to pull off because the other side simply has to give chase. Kinetics for the win I suppose.

Completely untrue, from what you're complaining about. If you get first attack, then you have a very high probability of killing the blaster immediately and ending the engagement, due to his low health and poor defense. Your travel is suppressed, and his is not - but he is not designed to live through alphas.

If the blaster gets first attack, he must aim/buildup - which you can observe - and then land multiple melee moves on you to detoggle you and put you on the ground. If you observe his approach and see aim/buildup being run, you can (as I said exactly in the same way earlier) move out of his melee range and wait out aim/buildup, and then counter-attack during his aim/buildup recharge time. This time HE is suppressed and YOU are not, and you have much more powerful tools for surviving. This is not in any way an uncontrolled flight of panic, it's simply moving out of his melee range (possibly sticking a web grenade on him as you move away). He isn't going to kill you with his ordinary ranged, and you can interrupt his snipe, recognizable animation.

//PS - quotes are your friends.

Better things to do than type {quote}{/quote} 20 times in a post. If it's especially bothersome to you please feel free to not read me.

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IT'S THE MELLE AT'S THAT IS ALWAYS NERF HERDING AND GETTING THIER WAY AT THE EXPENSE OF BLASTERS.

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All this whining is just funny to me.

Blasters are still going to be one of the better ATs for pvp, but thanks to WW changes hopefully scrappers will catch back up.

You guys have defiance. You have unresistable damage. You have, realisticly, lots of HP for a caster in this game, epic shields, access to PFF or phase, FoN, and Aim + BU.

Blasters are currently and will remain one of the most effective and versatile of the pvp builds, so cut it out with the whining.

In my experience in this game, blasters have been one of the whiniest groups of players in the game, despite regularly being among the most powerfull, both in pvp and pve. I don't know what it is about you guys, but WW and toggle-dropping were both pretty broke. You've been asking for mez protection for 4+ issues now...give it up, it's not gonna happen.

You'll still be highly effective in teams. You'll still be good solo, but will, more and more, fall victim to the old rock-paper-scissors.

Enough with the [censored] crying already. You guys want to cry, go play a tank. That'll make you cry.

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it's to my understanding that scrappers are at the top of the pvp food chain if not one of the top ones so go cry somewhere else.
Btw I think you got that back words sir blasters are not the whiniest AT, I think scrappers and tanks are the masters at that. And really from all the results so far I'm quite convinced that this is true.
Ohh and yeah we asked for mezz protection and got ignored back in I1 or I2 scrappers b1tched like little girls got crits and became boss killers and just recently got a boost to thier base damage yet you forgot to mention that jack.
Tankers whined for more damage and got it, then turned around and b1tched at the fact that blasters got unstoppable which lead to it's watered down version of FON. So please stop with the hypocrisy

The problem with those APP shields are that blasters are so very easily mezzed and down goes those toggles, bf's run out quick and empaths are not always available to team with. I dont have a problem with alot of the changes even the major toning down of togle dropping but the nerfing of WW is definately going to severily screw up my survivality.

I have a dumb question though if AS happens to drop the shield does that mean I get full damage or I'm still protected from the full damage since AS occurred a split second before the shield got toggled off. And also I thought that AS was 100% unresistable so in this case having the shield really doesn't matter.

This is bull **** not only did the devs over nerf toggle dropping, they nerfed WW too. After Statesman the politician subtly vaguely hinted that there was something speical about WW in the mean time blaster problems still persist. To top it off they gave stalkers snipe powers so now they dont even have to be in melle to do thier incredible damage what kind of monkeys are coming up with these ideas.
It's their game it's thier rules we just play in it I guess, screw promoting AT diversity in pvp zones time to roll up a stalker and add one more stalker to the 1 gazillion population of the AT

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Personally, I think tanks should become the "main" detogglers.....other classes like Blasters should have it removed completely...pretty much like Scrappers have no ability to detoggle.

This would actually give tankers a place in PvP...right now, tankers are pretty much useless for the most part in PvP.

Or, if Blaster do keep a bit of detoggle ability, tankers should be much better at it....

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Sorry I disagree whole heartedly (sp?) if your going to remove blaster toggle dropping completly, then your going to have to increase blaster damage to put a hurt on tankers thru all thier def,resistence,hp, and shields. Yes tanks should be able to take a beating but not to the point where one of the highest damaging AT has no chance of killing them

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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.

First, I was wondering if this was true.

Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.

And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.

Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.

And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.

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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.

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Wow by a large margin huh talk about over nerf, now that it's out of the way any chance about addressing blaster concerns like our lackluster damage in our primaries, lack of a good attack chain from range, more range, rooting animations etc... and also about improving our secondaries. Help blasters please like you said you would

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Ohms: I've noticed that whenever you start to lose on a particular point, you change the subject.

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Change the subject? Exactly how am I changing the subject? You're posting a friggin' sob-story about how tough Scrappers have it, and I'm disagreeing with it. Instead of actually dealing with points made, you obfuscate matters by turning things personal, making accusations, misrepresenting points actually made, and when that doesn't fly either, you blow the whole thing off with crap like this?

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lol ohm's i'm with you on this one i've got an ice/eng main and lvling up a spines/regen, scrappers definately DO NOT have it tough playing the scrapper is alot easier than the blaster. I don't have to worry so much about dying so mcuh with my scrapper, unlike the intense micro managment of being a blaster monitoring your health bar picking out the correct target first and dancing arond his/her friends while attacking the target. integration pretty much makes u forget about mezz attacks unlike blasters which im alrdy familiar with pretty much all of the hold powers lol that appears on my screen and be quick on popping that bf. Ohhh and about the damage issue scrappers definately comes close to blaster damage, there isn't that much gap to warrent scrappers getting def or damage mitigation secondaries.

How bout making all range attack 80 with shorter recharge time and faster activation, tripple the value buffs of both aim and builup and last 21 secs. hmmmmm /devs is lacking buildup
It's simple and painless to code for disclaimer though this could be just a crazy idea

wait a min what makes stalkers so special that they get a representative and everyone else is left out in the cold

Is it possible for a spy from another SG to get invited to yours and ends up putting your own SG open to raids at 2am when nobody is defending it. Sneaky but I see this as happening.