Detoggling=Rule Applies For Everyone
Having 2 Level 50 Tanks and a Level 42 Tank, I say detoggling is just fine. Its part of the game, deal with it
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Having 2 Level 50 Tanks and a Level 42 Tank, I say detoggling is just fine. Its part of the game, deal with it
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I think you should read his post again before taking such an offensive tone.
You'd find he's asking if it's true if detoggling is going away, and he states that the only way he can pvp against brutes/tankers is by detoggling them, he's not saying anything about how he hates detoggling.
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Detoggling=Rule Applies For Everyone
Having 2 Level 50 Tanks and a Level 42 Tank, I say detoggling is just fine. Its part of the game, deal with it
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Detoggling = Not equal for everyone because not everyone has a Primary full of toggles
Having 3 level 50 tanks, I say detoggling is a cheesy game mechanic that goes against the often barked "PvP is team based! They aren't trying to balance every 1-on-1 encounter!"
It's a part of the game that is being changed, deal with it.
I too can make an asinine post...
Anyways, yes, it's been commented on that toggle droppers are being adjusted in Issue 7. It's a kludge that was put in the game before all the balancing took place, and it sounds like they are actually revisiting this.
Its not like I can just hit brawl once, and your detoggled anyways. I haev to repeatively hit it, while not using any of my main attacks. Giving tankers/brutes the time of the world to nearly kill me (Which they usually do).
It's not just about Brawl, it's about all the other attacks that have a high chance of knocking off 1 or more toggles with every hit. The entire Energy Melee set comes to mind. It might not be as serious for a defense-based melee set like Ice or Super Reflexes, but for a set like Fire Armor, you spend your entire time in PvP just trying to turn toggles back on. But anyways, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. The PvP in this game is stale , regardless of what AT you choose to play.
As long as they allow Brawl to do it, I'm fine with that. It gives more of a strategic purpose to, as of when to use your actual moves and brawl.
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As long as they allow Brawl to do it, I'm fine with that. It gives more of a strategic purpose to, as of when to use your actual moves and brawl.
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I whole-heartedly agree with you there. If a player really needs to resort to dropping someone toggles to beat them, it's an acceptable risk to use Brawl. My beef with toggle dropping stems from the hipocracy of game balancing that has been done. If you read any of the PvP General threads, you'll most likely find someone complaining about getting killed by so-and-so and there was nothing they could do about it. The response is always "Get on a team, PvP isn't balanced for 1-on-1 encounters". But then on the flip-side, everyone seems to think that any AT or build should be able to solo a tanker, the supposed toughest AT in the game. If you can defeat a Tanker as easily as a Scrapper or a Kheldian, then who would want to play a Tanker in PvP?
Don't even get me started on the neutering of Aggro Management abilities in PvP. Statesman keeps harping on how Tankers are the kings of aggro, and yet Gauntlet doesn't work and Taunt is hard-capped at 50% effectiveness. All this is because players found it "annoying" to be Taunted the whole time. That's the point of Tankers! They are supposed to redirect damage to themselves to shield the team! Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here. Obviously I'm a bit sour on how Tanks have been implemented in PvP...
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As long as they allow Brawl to do it, I'm fine with that. It gives more of a strategic purpose to, as of when to use your actual moves and brawl.
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I whole-heartedly agree with you there. If a player really needs to resort to dropping someone toggles to beat them, it's an acceptable risk to use Brawl. My beef with toggle dropping stems from the hipocracy of game balancing that has been done. If you read any of the PvP General threads, you'll most likely find someone complaining about getting killed by so-and-so and there was nothing they could do about it. The response is always "Get on a team, PvP isn't balanced for 1-on-1 encounters". But then on the flip-side, everyone seems to think that any AT or build should be able to solo a tanker, the supposed toughest AT in the game. If you can defeat a Tanker as easily as a Scrapper or a Kheldian, then who would want to play a Tanker in PvP?
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the triple damage for controllers was for team balance too.
Remember, kids: angry, arrogant and loud > reading comprehension!
The entire mechanic if toggle dropping was quite simply (IOP) implemented incorrectly. Why should a simple "brawl" attack effectively turn off someone's powers? And why does that only in certain parts of the "world".
Look at it this way, playing your character in most of the "game world" brawl doesn't turn off an NPC's powers, so why should this happen vs a PC? Simply because of "PvP balance"? I say hogwash.
There are otherways toggle dropping could have been implemented that is more thematic with how powers work and at the same time work the same in both PvE and PvP.
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
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A major overstatement. Let's not put too much stock in forum "sayings" on features the player base hasn't tested yet.
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And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Super Strength isn't the highest damage Tanker secondary. Nor is it the second highest damage Tanker secondary.
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Detoggling=Rule Applies For Everyone
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Detoggling impacts the ATs differently. Detoggling removes a tanker's PRIMARY powerset, making them not a tanker anymore, except for hps. Brawl does not remove the archetype-ness from any other archetype but tankers.
I will spell it out. A blaster still blasts after detoggling. A controller still controls after detoggling. A scrapper still scraps after detoggling. A defender still defends after detoggling. Sure, a power or two in each of these ATs might be shut off, but they still possess their identity.
Also, many powers detoggle, not just brawl. Some powers detoggle multiple toggles at a time.
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Having 2 Level 50 Tanks and a Level 42 Tank, I say detoggling is just fine. Its part of the game, deal with it
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Well, sure, a granite armor tank who cannot be detoggled is fine with it.
The PvP game is not supposed to be balanced one-vs-one, and tanks are supposed to be tough, that's what they do, and in your words tanker toughness is part of the game, deal with it.
Detoggling is a bad kludge from the Arena, a cheat code that should have been dropped when the Issue 5 and ED nerfs occurred which substantially weakened tanks; invuln tanks after the nerfs could only achieve 27.5% resistance to elements/energies; that's plenty of weakness all by itself, and in PvP the other ATs still get special advantages like unresistable crits, while tanks do not.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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Also, many powers detoggle, not just brawl. Some powers detoggle multiple toggles at a time.
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Si ... Search-Fu
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First, I was wondering if this was true.
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Nope.
Detoggling is getting tweaked, not completely removed. My wager is just that the percentage values all around will be dropped, but no one knows for sure.
Maybe they're taking so long on the toggle balancing because they're implementing a system of toggle suppression instead of detoggling.
(well, I can hope at least)
-Sandolphan
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I hope they just lower the number of toggles blasters and stalkers can drop, right now isnt it like 100% for 1 75% for a second and 50% for a 3rd? or was it 100% for 1 50% for the second and 25% for the 3rd?
Also changing toggle animations, i feel bad for my dark armor buds that have to do the dark armor dance as they try and activate all their toggles again.
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
Care to elaborate?
Oh, thank god.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Thanks for updating us on this, Castle, but would we be able to get a bit more information on this? To what extent is toggle-dropping being "reigned in"? Can you give us a small example? e.g. How would a Tanker now stand up to an */Energy Manipulation Blaster?
You could add more a chance to detoggle for Hurricane. Especially with the ineffective web and stun grenades and the EMP glove. Melee's can barely touch hurricane people and the jump and try to punch them to knock the toggle off is sort of ridiculous. Make Hurricane a click like you've done to Instant Healing, Phase Shift, and Quantum flight. I mean having someone just stand around with hurricane the whole time and do only that and not be touchable is a bit overpowered. Especially when you have like 10 people around them tryin got touch them and can't.
P.S. I'm not responding to any "NO! I don't want to be nerfed like so many other people because I like my overpowered power just the way it is!!!" My only post in here.
If by "reigning in" they mean balancing it out a bit more (so EM isn't insanely detoggling and DEV barely detoggles, for instance) I'm in favor. But if they're just gonna reduce toggling chances across the board, leaving the worst offenders and weakest contenders as is, the situation doesn't improve any -- and just makes life harder on a squishy who already avoids tankers, brutes, and scrappers like the plague because they can't do much against them.
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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It could be worse. You could be a Dominator trying to fight a Tanker.
Castle, please don't touch Detoggles on Dominators. It's pretty much universally accepted that we're one of the single worst PvP archetypes in existance, behind even some Mastermind builds. Our 100% detoggle attacks are pretty much the only thing we have that makes an impact in PvP, barring some wildcard powers like Wormhole or Terrify.
So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.