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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Darn good news. Not as good as getting rid of toggle dropping altogether, but still very good news. Non-granite tanks might give PvP another try...
Too many people talk about how they need toggle dropping to survive in PvP and then give examples of one-on-one battles, as if all anyone does is solo in the PvP zones. The devs have said that PvP is not balanced for one-on-one, and toggle dropping is way too powerful for team vs team, it overshadows the team's super-powers and probably keeps people from developing good team super-power synergies.
Now maybe PvP battles will really be about super powers, rather than just lazy toggle drop fests.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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30 per cent unresistable damage isn't enough for you? There is more than one way to skin a cat, you know? 
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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It could be worse. You could be a Dominator trying to fight a Tanker.
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Or a defender with no detoggling abilities and no unresistable damage.
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Personally, I think tanks should become the "main" detogglers.....other classes like Blasters should have it removed completely...pretty much like Scrappers have no ability to detoggle.
This would actually give tankers a place in PvP...right now, tankers are pretty much useless for the most part in PvP.
Or, if Blaster do keep a bit of detoggle ability, tankers should be much better at it....
Amen. I love my Fire/Kinetic Corr in PvE but a SS tank was just laughing at me as i hit him with my best shots. His hopping appeared to be resistant to siphon speed too.
At least I gave him debt near some Arachnos. I hate to be that petty but four times it was KO blow, held, dead. The animation times on my attacks, no matter how fast, was enough for him to catchup with me. The times I survived I essentially had to completely run away and then catch him not looking for me.
I fear this happening to my hero blasters vs. SS brutes. However, in all fairness my elec/nrg currently wins more than losses in straight up fist fights with brutes. I just wish ranged attacks were a little more fearsome. Blasters are only using what works and that's usually not a ranged attack unless you're finishing off a runner.
Blaster + Any Stun = dead. Scrapper or tanker + Detoggle = maybe dead. I agree detoggling should be scaled back (where were was detoggling relief during issue 4 arena fights lol), just how much though?
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Not to be picky, but you mean 'reined', not reigned... Unless Detoggling is the name of a new Monarchy. 
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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...
I love you.
Simple fix, IMO...
NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.
After that, I don't give a damn if I'm detoggled or not, and they can even UP the detogglage. The blapper + controller setups are annoying though.
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Simple fix, IMO...
NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.
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I hope you plan to also suggest the simple fix of barring any Dominator or Controller from entering PvP unless he has another Dominator or Controller that will be chained to him, never to excede a distance of five feet from each other.
Because that's the only way Controllers and Dominators (mostly Dominators) are going to be able to do their job: in pairs.
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Are the issues that made toggle dropping on this scale seem like a good idea going away too, or is this a tacit passing of the 'Stupid Stick' to a different archetype for an issue?
Or should I just post a "when will i7 be on test?" thread in the training room like everyone else, wet myself with impatience, then finally test it out myself when it arrives?
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Simple fix, IMO...
NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.
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Team....
Team for non-toggle mez protection buffs.....
And go give an overconfident blaster a very unexpected fight.
So does that mean the Knives of Artemis wont be throwing Shurikens and turning off all my toggles every hit they make anymore?
I admit my scrapper and Tank dont have the problem since they have powers that make it so i can ignore things like that...and even if i cant with them i can use an inspiration and be immune.
Its my controllers and defenders and blasters and kheldians that get cheesed by this.
I must say.....running 6 toggles and having them instalty turn off after being hit with a shuriken is annoying.
But with no status defense powers available thats just how it is.
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Simple fix, IMO...
NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.
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I hope you plan to also suggest the simple fix of barring any Dominator or Controller from entering PvP unless he has another Dominator or Controller that will be chained to him, never to excede a distance of five feet from each other.
Because that's the only way Controllers and Dominators (mostly Dominators) are going to be able to do their job: in pairs.
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Um...not really. You're talking about 2 seperate issues:
1) Controllers vs the heaviest mez protected class in the game. And they can still overstack me with out hammis. With hammis...gimme a frikin break. Do you even duel high level controllers on either side of this equation? Vs. or with? If they can hold Ice, they can hold anyone else, so I don't see them having an issue, and the damage they output once contained with the Epics is ridiculous.
2) Dominators. a) we have no idea what patrons they're getting, b) I think it's known domination is fairly broke in pvp, so that's an AT issue, like Fury, and not something they should nerf other classes for...it'd be the wrong fix. c) domintors, like defenders, are far more usefull in teams.
Brutes and scrappers all have less mez protection than tanks, and containment damage hits them doubly as hard with their lower HP.
So...what's your point again? You want a buff for Doms, I'm right behind ya, depending on what patrons bring, but other than that, I don't think you've fully thought this through.
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Simple fix, IMO...
NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.
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Team....
Team for non-toggle mez protection buffs.....
And go give an overconfident blaster a very unexpected fight.
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Hehe, Ice already does. Which is where I get my idea...with 5-6 toggles, my mez protection is rarely knocked off and I'm rarely held by blappers. But thanks to defiance and un-resisted damage, at least at the high levels, 40+ v 40+, it's as balanced and interesting a 1v1 fight as we're likely to get, vs my Ice/em tank.
But...I resist slows, so the FoTm Ice/EM blapper means squat to me. If I were a fire tank, with 2-3 toggles...well...ouchie. Add to that the fact that they DON'T have extra HP and that they're likely mezzed, their healing ability means crap and they're going down. If he wasn't mezzed, on the other hand...he could re-toggle, heal up when he could, and carry on.
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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30 per cent unresistable damage isn't enough for you? There is more than one way to skin a cat, you know?
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Tell that to any Blaster that has to contend with a Stone Tanker in Granite. Not going to happen.
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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30 per cent unresistable damage isn't enough for you? There is more than one way to skin a cat, you know?
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Tell that to any Blaster that has to contend with a Stone Tanker in Granite. Not going to happen.
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Well, IMO they should look at granite too, realisticly.
Though if Rooted weren't detogglable more stoners would probably run around outside of Granite.
Here's what I think the Devs had in mind when they made granite resitant to detoggling:
--Gee, unkillable, except vs 2-3 toons with the right combo of powers.
--BUT, similar to hibernate or phase, DPS and other actions are severely curtailed while in Granite. In other words...you're quite a bit more harmless. I regularly ignore granite tanks like they're PFF bubblers with provoke.
Then chain-taunting became an issue. Nobody wants to be chain-taunted to an unkillable target. So...they nerfed taunt, which was even worse...cause now it doesn't do it's job in pvp. They could have nerfed the pv[ duration, or even just the duration period...instead they gave it this lameass 50% to hit that gets ppl killed quite often in pvp and makes tanks fairly useless on teams.
IMO, lots of balancing tanks in pvp comes up against granite. There's got to be a way to keep stone performing like it does in pve and not have the issues it does in pvp. I think making rooted resist detoggling and making some changes to Granite would be a much better all-round solution.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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So is this PVE or PVP you are refering too?
A scrapper doesn't really scrap if they're a Regen and their integretion is gone and they're against someone that can mez They just kind of stand there a lot until they finally are brought down.
I don't like detoggles because all my eggs are in one basket on my Regen.
I also don't like Repulsion :P DARN YOU! I want to plaaaaaay.
My Corruptor is only so so in PvP. Enter water? One of her primary useful attacks is basically neutered away because you can't see Tarpatch in water. Which I think is bologna :P It does however teach me how to be a better player... I still wish I could see my AoE on Tarpatch in water though.
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Can Blasters get some more unresistable damage to compensate? Since even with detoggling we where pretty ineffective against tankers.
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30 per cent unresistable damage isn't enough for you? There is more than one way to skin a cat, you know?
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Tell that to any Blaster that has to contend with a Stone Tanker in Granite. Not going to happen.
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Well you're quite right; a single Blaster shouldn't be able to beat a Stone Tanker using Granite, an Invulnerability Tanker using Unstoppable (until it drops), an Ice tanker using Hibernate or a Fire Tanker... well, a Fire Tanker's 32 power is a rez power 
. I'm not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely.
If you're fighting in the Arena, take level 32 powers out of the equation - lower the "weight" at which the duel will be set, you'll get different results this way. Or you could even take your fights to Bloody Bay or Siren's Call, both places where Granite/Unstoppable/Hibernate aren't an issue.
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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I'll wait till I see how the developers have reacted this time to mass hysteria. Hopefully a "large margin" is the reverse of a "small tweak".
As long as Brawl keeps it, I am fine with detoggling going out the window.
To consider, however-
My level 34 tanker is practically unkillable in PvP. The only way to kill him is to drop his toggles and even without them he takes some work. I have had multiple stalkers gang up on me and literally take turns AS/Placate'ing me. Between Aid Self, Dull Pain, and fancy footwork, I was able to stay alive and was nearly at full health by the time I made my escape.
Without toggles.
With toggles, my tanker has held the line against many villains, buying time for my pals to rally together and beat the villains back. My last fight, brutes, a mastermind, a couple corruptors, and me. No toggle droppers or mezzers present. I couldn't kill a damn thing, but I myself was unkillable. They even dropped a nuke on me, and I just stood there and hit dull pain as needed, until a hero team came by and wiped the floor with them.
I really really felt like a tank. To date, my tanker has never died in PvP, and while his kills aren't many, it's made up for in the fact that he can laugh at things that would butcher any other AT.
Interesting, no?
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Wow by a large margin huh talk about over nerf, now that it's out of the way any chance about addressing blaster concerns like our lackluster damage in our primaries, lack of a good attack chain from range, more range, rooting animations etc... and also about improving our secondaries. Help blasters please like you said you would
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[ QUOTE ]
So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.
First, I was wondering if this was true.
Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.
And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.
Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.
And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.
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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.
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Detoggling is a kludge. Its another one of those strange mechanics that becomes more important in and of itself than the powers we use to create our characters.
It should be difficult but not impossible to overcome toggles using our powers, not strange mechanics.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Detoggling is a kludge. Its another one of those strange mechanics that becomes more important in and of itself than the powers we use to create our characters.
It should be difficult but not impossible to overcome toggles using our powers, not strange mechanics.
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Precisely. Exactly. QFE.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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You could add more a chance to detoggle for Hurricane. Especially with the ineffective web and stun grenades and the EMP glove. Melee's can barely touch hurricane people and the jump and try to punch them to knock the toggle off is sort of ridiculous. Make Hurricane a click like you've done to Instant Healing, Phase Shift, and Quantum flight. I mean having someone just stand around with hurricane the whole time and do only that and not be touchable is a bit overpowered. Especially when you have like 10 people around them tryin got touch them and can't.
P.S. I'm not responding to any "NO! I don't want to be nerfed like so many other people because I like my overpowered power just the way it is!!!" My only post in here.
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The bottom line to Co* PvP is that not every player will able able to defeat another player. Defenders with Hurricane might be nigh unbeatable vs melee players, but vs ranged? BU+Aim+Snipe FTW. Just because your character can't beat that particular character doesn't mean that his powers or your powers need to be changed. It can be an elaborate game of rock, scissors, paper. But sometines ol' paper will have a sledge hammer to use against scissors every now a' then.
P.S. And I really don't to see kludges like toggle-dropping be used to balance out PvP combat. It was a bad idea to begin with and I still think it' a bad idea.