[ QUOTE ]
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If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted because Lasher fully agrees!
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please dwell on this more. How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?
I know Blasters can, if they try. What about Stalkers? All but Energy Armor will have a hard to to overcome this problem.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Stalkers are very binary. They're either killing someone or they are dying.
However, they're one of the few (the only?) AT in the game that can essentially be "good" in PvP with only 2 powers. I'm not sure that's fair. A lot of people need to carefully consider their whole build to be strong at PvP, but stalkers get by pretty well with just 2 powers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, you're wrong on something. None of those things were PVP nerfs. (Well, QF might have been, I don't know anything about that power)
IH and MoG were nerfed because regen scrappers were SOLOING +3 MONSTERS.
Phase shift was nerfed because it was being used for herding.
Both were done for PvE reasons. The devs said it, and the vast majority of player comments -I- saw agreed with the reasoning behind it. (although there was still much debate on whether it was nessecary or not) As for nerfing Hurricane, I don't see any real PVE reason for it. Storm Defenders have their share of challenges as it is. PVP-wise, it's like someone said. There are ways to get around it, you just have to be creative about it.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
This is only semi-related, but do you think we'll ever see more powers that affect range?
Off the top of my head, I think only Hurricane actually affects attack range. It'd be nice to have a defender buff or a power pool that would give you a range increase, or a debuff that did the opposite. I've got lots of damage/range Hamidon enhancers in my Dark Nova powers, and they make a huge difference. I think people overlook the power of increasing default range.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, you're wrong on something. None of those things were PVP nerfs. (Well, QF might have been, I don't know anything about that power)
IH and MoG were nerfed because regen scrappers were SOLOING +3 MONSTERS.
Phase shift was nerfed because it was being used for herding.
Both were done for PvE reasons. The devs said it, and the vast majority of player comments -I- saw agreed with the reasoning behind it. (although there was still much debate on whether it was nessecary or not) As for nerfing Hurricane, I don't see any real PVE reason for it. Storm Defenders have their share of challenges as it is. PVP-wise, it's like someone said. There are ways to get around it, you just have to be creative about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's simply no reason to nerf hurricane. /storm is not that great to begin with, outside of hurricane. Almost all builds have other builds they have problems with. My blapper can kill squishies before they even have a chance to react, but tanks and brutes are tough because their hp are high, they survive my alpha assault, then buildup and aim are gone and I often get mobbed, held, stunned, etc.
You can deal with hurricane in lots of ways. Ranged attacks, jousting with melee attacks, anti-repel powers (yes, there are not many), end drain, mez effects, and so on. I'd port them onto trip mines with one characters.
Oh joy. The Dev Digest is herding Forum Trolls for us.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
[/ QUOTE ]
.... 
Not sure I like what this response implies....
[ QUOTE ]
How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?
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Moment of Glory resists repel, so that's too easy. The other two can jump in, I've done so.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh joy. The Dev Digest is herding Forum Trolls for us.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, how dare those stupid trolls use the facts and logic to completely ruin the hysteria of calling for future nerfs.
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
[/ QUOTE ]
....
Not sure I like what this response implies....
[/ QUOTE ]
It implies that the devs don't like being misquoted. 
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
As a toggle, there are various powers that would stop it. As a clickie, none, really. And one biiiig difference between IH and Hurricane. There are plenty of buffs/armors/etc, that are either clicks, or toggles. There are NO PBAoEs with a duration. Hurricane does generate agro, and is not a drop. Changing it to a clickie would make it unique, and I don't think in a good way. And I don't have /storm/ and I am saying this.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I know how MY Super Reflexes scrapper deals with it.
Practiced Brawler.
Works GREAT. Stand right next to the 'Caner and open up the can o' whupass.
As I recall Energy Aura has Entropy Field, which can be used to dispel status effects. I think KB/KD is included in the list.
Not having played DA or Regen, I can't say what one would use. But I'm pretty sure Regen has an anti-status click effect.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please dwell on this more. How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?
I know Blasters can, if they try. What about Stalkers? All but Energy Armor will have a hard to to overcome this problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
notice he refers to the Jumping pool.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
IH and MoG were nerfed because regen scrappers were SOLOING +3 MONSTERS.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would love to see someone with MoG solo a +3 Monster... if there are any.. 
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they nerfed Huricane, it would a direct response to something from PvP, which they've said previously that they won't do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the original quote was something along the lines or "we'll try not to."
Melee and Range are differentiated in terms of damage, and attack type, but the statements above that there is no 'melee range' is accurate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, you're wrong on something. None of those things were PVP nerfs. (Well, QF might have been, I don't know anything about that power)
IH and MoG were nerfed because regen scrappers were SOLOING +3 MONSTERS.
Phase shift was nerfed because it was being used for herding.
Both were done for PvE reasons. The devs said it, and the vast majority of player comments -I- saw agreed with the reasoning behind it. (although there was still much debate on whether it was nessecary or not) As for nerfing Hurricane, I don't see any real PVE reason for it. Storm Defenders have their share of challenges as it is. PVP-wise, it's like someone said. There are ways to get around it, you just have to be creative about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
QF = Quantam Flight - Peacebringer power that is flight + phase shift. So, all reasons apllying to Phaseshift apply to QF. IIRC, they made it so the time, when it runs out, doesn't drop the power (since there is flight) but instead causes QF to have an increasing end cost.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
I know how MY Super Reflexes scrapper deals with it.
Practiced Brawler.
Works GREAT. Stand right next to the 'Caner and open up the can o' whupass.
As I recall Energy Aura has Entropy Field, which can be used to dispel status effects. I think KB/KD is included in the list.
Not having played DA or Regen, I can't say what one would use. But I'm pretty sure Regen has an anti-status click effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry bout the SR. Havn't played mine in a while, so I did not know they added that to PB. As for DA and Regen, they get shot away, and even locked down in a corner if the stormie was mean enough.
I already mentionEnergy Aura (which I called it Armor, my bad 
), so I knew about that.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please dwell on this more. How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?
I know Blasters can, if they try. What about Stalkers? All but Energy Armor will have a hard to to overcome this problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
notice he refers to the Jumping pool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, missed it. Cool beans.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
|
[ QUOTE ]
I know how MY Super Reflexes scrapper deals with it.
Practiced Brawler.
Works GREAT. Stand right next to the 'Caner and open up the can o' whupass.
As I recall Energy Aura has Entropy Field, which can be used to dispel status effects. I think KB/KD is included in the list.
Not having played DA or Regen, I can't say what one would use. But I'm pretty sure Regen has an anti-status click effect.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think intergration (regen) has knockback. Other than jumping in to "joust", DA's only recourse is either going for acroatics, or hoping our defense is high enough. We are the fire armor set for scrappers
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm ...
Hurricane's not an "Oh crap!" power like most of the ones you listed. It's a debuff -- a standard part of the defense a stormie gives her team.
If you go through the big toggle dropping powers defenders have, most of 'em are KB and repel powers, which as many people have pointed out, are largely resisted by the folks they're supposed to be used on. The toggle drop aspect was added to these powers because they're supposed to be bad news to melee-based mobs and toons. If the KB and repel aspects are entirely nullified, then these powers won't be functioning as intended.
But thank you for nerf-herding ... while trying to prop up your own hobbyhorse
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm ...
Hurricane's not an "Oh crap!" power like most of the ones you listed. It's a debuff -- a standard part of the defense a stormie gives her team.
If you go through the big toggle dropping powers defenders have, most of 'em are KB and repel powers, which as many people have pointed out, are largely resisted by the folks they're supposed to be used on. The toggle drop aspect was added to these powers because they're supposed to be bad news to melee-based mobs and toons. If the KB and repel aspects are entirely nullified, then these powers won't be functioning as intended.
But thank you for nerf-herding ... while trying to prop up your own hobbyhorse
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget though, some people, from Issue four onwards, automatically attribute most nerfs to PVP.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
The same goes for any of the other 'aura toggle' powers in the game. Hurricane just happens to be the one people are focusing on currently... next it could be Icicles.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, that'd be funny.
I've been asking various developers basic questions about icicles for a while, and not a single one has got back to me yet.
It would be unfortunate if they nerf Hurricane. Sure, it's effective against melee only enemies in BB, Siren's, and Warburg. And that will likely end in Recluse's Victory once the melee villains can hit 40+ and get access to ranged CC like Tankers and Scrappers do.
And even in BB, SC, and Warburg, it's use is limited to preventing melee attacks from those that don't have a specific counter (Like, oh, say any ranged attack or a single ranged CC or lucky melee CC with a joust). Only reason it stands out is that 50% of the villain PVP population is made up of stalkers. And the smart ones can still manage to get past it.
Can't say I feel too sorry for them. I've played with and against it, and Hurricane might be make a solo defender/controller mostly immune to stalkers, but this game isn't balanced for solo anyways. Otherwise, those stalkers wouldn't be basically immune to most defenders and controllers. And if the Hurricane drops, it's easy enough to one shot the user.
As for Stalkers either killing someone or dying... only if they build around 'two powers.' Build for a balanced offense and defense and you can manage quite nicely in a scrap. Sure, scrappers can crush them if they fight without using their abilities. But then, there's a reason scrappers seem to make up 50% of the Hero PVP population.
Funny, I don't see Hurricane as 'broken' so much as it's 'difficult to overcome with a melee character.'
But it CAN be overcome.
ID (well, now, not so much), Practiced Brawler, other knockback/down protections, Focus, leaping attacks, Hover, Combat Jumping, Transference+Transfusion (properly slotted), Short Circuit/Power Sink, Tesla Cage, etc etc etc.
Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.
The same goes for any of the other 'aura toggle' powers in the game. Hurricane just happens to be the one people are focusing on currently... next it could be Icicles.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."