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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.
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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.
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You're just exagerating Kid. All you need is some speed from a Travel Power and a couple passes with Build Up. Bare minimum, and it will work.
And as an MA Scrapper, you DO have CC, you have Cobra Strike and Eagles' Claw 60% of the time. It's easy enough to punch through with that.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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I can NOT believe that a melee type has the freakin' audacity to come into a squishy forum and whine about PvP. Defenders, with the lone exception of stormers, are the easiest targets in PvP. Everyone knows it, and you have the brass to come in here and kvetch about the ONE defender powerset that gives you grief. And on top of that you're too lazy to take the 10 seconds to figure out how to beat it yourself.
Well there's your freebie, now go back to the Scrapper forum and whine about how /Regen was nerfed some more.
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Well, it's good that you held the high ground and didn't try to discredit his position on the basis of what kind of characters he might play or something.
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I would tend to agree with you, but there is kindof a point here. KQ has a bit of a malcontent attitude about him, and he -does- complain about regen's nerfs -in his sig-. A lot of people have some difficulty being rational toward people with his approach on the game, because his approach on the game is not entirely rational. (And the opposite is true as well; somebody who's been hit with the nerf hammer too many times, they can have a hard time empathising with people who still respect the devs and the game.) I guess what I'm getting at is it's all too easy for both sides to get wrapped up in name calling in accusations. We're all raitonal agents here, we should try to appeal to that aspect of one another if we want to reach any sort of agreement.
Sure, it doesn't always -work-, but if we don't try to at least encourage that, where does that leave us?
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I'm not the one name calling like people are doing to me. I'm stating the rational of how the game is these days. Yes I've been nerfed over and over. It's not fun. I was laughed at when it was done and along with thousands of others complained. Now I'm other side of the fence and the one complaining about a power by others who used to complain about my powers. It sucks to be nerfed. You've invested a lot in your toon, playstyle, etc. I know I did. And to have it pulled from you is NO fun. If they fix Hurricane so that it's not perma on, perma impenitrable to those with only melee attacks, then that is a fair thing to do. How they do it, let the devs put a bunch of suggestions into a hat and pull one(of course they all have to be equally painful). Fair is supposed to be equal. Not one sided to benefit one and not another.
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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.
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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.
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I think you need to realize that PvP isnt ever going to be balanced for one on one battles. You have two choices as I see it. Accept the fact that you need team mates to deal with certain obstacles, or avoid PvP. Coming into a forum of an AT you dont seem to have any experience playing and [censored] and moaning about one power isnt going to do you anygood, unless your goal is to have people think of you as a whiner without the ability to adapt to something that actually provides a challenge to melee in PvP.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
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Pluck
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Slagheap
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Stellaric
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Villains
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Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a MA scrapper. I have no ranged attacks. Fine, give Defenders blaster like temp powers in PvP. You're not seeing what I've been trying to say in multiple messages. PvP is a mess. The devs more or less have to neuter every AT to make things fair, balanced, or whatever BS you want to call it. We all USED to have a purpose in the game that was specific to our AT. Now to make things "balanced" in PvP, we begin to lose that identity to try to make ATs equally be able to defeat each other. That ball chopping should apply to all ATs though. No one should be impervious to the other. Do I agree with this logic in the sense that all ATs should be the same, NO, NOT AT ALL. I'd prefer we all be nerf free and go have fun doing what each AT used to be able to do best in PvP like we did in PvE. That's obviously not acceptable though because there will be people who whine about one power being too strong, some being to weak. I know Controller's did it about Regen's MoG, and I know multiple ATs do it about Hurricane. So.. Shrugs. Fair is fair, right? Or is fair only fair when it's in someone's favor, not the others? Let the ball chopping commence!
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No, I'm sorry. You don't understand what I've been trying to say. As I already said, I have no problems with your passion in general. I do for a matter of fact know that Hurricane is easy to overcome, unlike Phase Shift for example. Other people have already served solutions to it, I won't because I figure everyone should have to find them for themselves.
My problem is that, from the get-go and not through later nerfs or adjustments, Defenders have been handicapped. And this is in a clearly numerically provable fashion when compared to Blasters and Controllers. Calling for any nerf to any power of an AT that has been set up to fail from the get go (and despite the deck being stacked in its disfavour continues to flourish due to some dedicated players) is like complaining that the kid in the wheelchair gets to use the elevator while you have to use the stairs.
Imagine Scrappers did Tanker Damage, had no inherent Mez Protection and Controller HPs. Now you're playing a Defender, roughly speaking. It's not unplayable, but there'd be obvious issues with the AT, non?
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.
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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.
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I think you need to realize that PvP isnt ever going to be balanced for one on one battles. You have two choices as I see it. Accept the fact that you need team mates to deal with certain obstacles, or avoid PvP. Coming into a forum of an AT you dont seem to have any experience playing and [censored] and moaning about one power isnt going to do you anygood, unless your goal is to have people think of you as a whiner without the ability to adapt to something that actually provides a challenge to melee in PvP.
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You will also need to tailor your build specifically to PvP. That means taking powers like CAK, Cobra Strike, Slotting Build Up with either Membranes or 3 ToHitBuff SOs, slotting unsupressable movement powers, etc etc.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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You can lose the smirk. The myriad changes to MoG and IH -started- before the revised "giant monster" system. After that, continued nerfs occured because Regen scrappers were effectively tanking on invincible, and were distincitvely more effective at PvP then other builds. Each nerf was a little more questionable then the ones prior to it, because each time Regen was a little less absurd, but back when it all started, a solid regen build was pretty much unkillable.
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Which of course justifies making hyperbolic complains about what they were capable of in, say, issue 5.
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Hey, hey, don't misunderstand me, Kali, I wasn't -complaining- about anything they used to be able to do, and I never said they were doing that -recently-. Maybe I should've been clearer, but I wasn't trying to misrepresent anything.
What I was trying to do was make the point that the long fall of regen scrappers -began- because of a MASSIVE PVE imbalance, and I saw no evidence to imply that any of those changes were to curb the set for PvP concerns. IH and MoG both went through extensive changes over -several- issues because the devs were struggling to find the right "spot" for the AT.
It wasn't a PvP nerf as KidQuik seems to believe, it was the tail end of a very long-running struggle with the identity of the set. KQ is playing a little game of "let's rewrite history" here (or at least a game of "Conspiracy Theories 101"), and that bothered me, so I was perhaps a little more taciturn then I meant to be, but in no way was I trying to exaggerate what regenners have been -recently- capable of. Just stating facts.
Around the time Regenners were drawing the attention of the mighty nerf bat, I watched a fellow regen solo an overlevel Jurassik that had creamed the rest of our party. It took awhile, but he did it, and he was never in any real danger of being KO'd.
I also heard talk of other absurd things, but that's the shining example I personally experienced, and things like that are why Regen attracted the nerf bat. Perma MoG was unbalancing in PvE, and furthermore, was a disruption of the -concept- of regen. Perma IH was similarly unbalancing. Regenners could always run on invincible. Hell, -I- still can, I just have to be careful about it now. That is PvE imbalance, and that's why Regen got nerfed, not because of any PvP issues. That's -all- I was trying to get across.
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Yes and no. I died. I died alot prenerf. I didn't make uber MA/Regen cookie cutter slotted MoGed out scrapper to be invincible in PvE. For PvP I would have to steer that way. We repeatedly said to the powers that be, lower the healing rate of IH. And what did they do? They lowered heals to IH and then added heals to Int? What the hell??? Then they used the very bad excuse of and I don't remember the EXACT quote, but when they made IH a clicky it was because having IH as a toggle drained too much Endurance and now there wouldn't be that issue.... That was very laughable. So we become click builds and then throw ED on top of it, then after the fact, make powers use less stamina, it kinda made a lot of excuses even more invalid that they used. If there is a "balance vision" then things should be balanced. Not for some, but for all against each other. The whole idea to me is sad. But if that's the way it's supposed to be, then make it a fair playing field. Hurricane needs to be nerfed to be fair to those without the ability to throw rocks.
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Right now it's just way too overpowerered.
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It cracks me up that someone who has a regen scrapper and a stalker (save your breath I have both) is complaining about hurricane being too powerful.
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MA/Regen
Ninjitsu/Regen
Melee....
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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.
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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.
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You're just exagerating Kid. All you need is some speed from a Travel Power and a couple passes with Build Up. Bare minimum, and it will work.
And as an MA Scrapper, you DO have CC, you have Cobra Strike and Eagles' Claw 60% of the time. It's easy enough to punch through with that.
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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take. 
I've tried the run and hit and the perma blow back hasn't allowed it.
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Have you tried Stun Grenading the Stormer, or using the EMP glove? I hate to actually interject logic to your nerffest, but last I checked, no solo stormer can get mez protection, and the only self-heal they can get is Life Drain or Aid Self.
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Yes. They don't seem to work for me. I can't range attack, control, or heal others either. I'm not a blaster, controller or defender.
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I think you need to realize that PvP isnt ever going to be balanced for one on one battles. You have two choices as I see it. Accept the fact that you need team mates to deal with certain obstacles, or avoid PvP. Coming into a forum of an AT you dont seem to have any experience playing and [censored] and moaning about one power isnt going to do you anygood, unless your goal is to have people think of you as a whiner without the ability to adapt to something that actually provides a challenge to melee in PvP.
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I don't really care if I'm considered a whiner. I considered many controllers and defenders whiners when they came into to whine about Regen powers too. Guess we're even to call each other whiners now if need be. Shrugs.
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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take.
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"I don't take the power that can mez the hurricane user and drop his hurricane and other toggles, but I want hurricane nerfed anyway."
"I'm unwilling to change my build to combat certain PvP tactics, so the devs must nerf the powers of others to fit my build"
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
Okay, so you didn't take a mez from your primary. Somehow Stun Grenades 'won't work' for you, I assume blowing up in your hand or something. You aren't willing to get Teleport, you aren't willing to get Phase Shift, and you aren't willing to devote a lot of time to killing something. You're unwilling to team with a Dominator or a melee character who has tried any of the above solutions. Oh, and you somehow are unable to penetrate a hurricane, something my Claws/Regen can do without a travel power, Focus, or Moment of Glory. Did you know Moment of Glory has Repel resistance, btw?
And, because of all of these, you want Hurricane made useless. Does that sum it up?
Best way to deal with a nerf herder is just ignore him. He wont be convinced otherwise, even in the face of logic. And he wont be happy until he can pwn anything that moves. God forbid if the regen scrapper cant own every fight, or the stalker cant one-hit everyone.
Responding to him just lets him spread his trolling some more.
I think I can sum up his point like this
"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"
I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take.
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"I don't take the power that can mez the hurricane user and drop his hurricane and other toggles, but I want hurricane nerfed anyway."
"I'm unwilling to change my build to combat certain PvP tactics, so the devs must nerf the powers of others to fit my build"
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Umm. How about we nerf Hurricane first then I'll worry about choosing powers after the nerf? Sorta like you guys get to do now with MoG and IH nerfed for Scrappers? Then we can have even playing field of nerfs and all try to figure out how to survive with nerfs... I hate having to use MoG and IH over and over as an example of people who complained about my powers overcome their status powers, but your saying I should have to choose a specific melee power when I can't even get close enough to punch when I can't even use the once I have now??? Give me ranged attacks with toggle droppers and I'll be good. Or.. Make Hurricane a clickie with uberness like IH when it's up, then a wait time of 8-9 minutes to feel uber again. Then you can toss me around in the air all you want for 2.5 minutes then when you're clickie fades, I can toss you around. Sounds fair to me.
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Okay, so you didn't take a mez from your primary. Somehow Stun Grenades 'won't work' for you, I assume blowing up in your hand or something. You aren't willing to get Teleport, you aren't willing to get Phase Shift, and you aren't willing to devote a lot of time to killing something. You're unwilling to team with a Dominator or a melee character who has tried any of the above solutions. Oh, and you somehow are unable to penetrate a hurricane, something my Claws/Regen can do without a travel power, Focus, or Moment of Glory. Did you know Moment of Glory has Repel resistance, btw?
And, because of all of these, you want Hurricane made useless. Does that sum it up?
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Sigh. Have Phase Shift.. Have Recall Friend. Have Fly. Team with people all the time. Have Mog, have to respec to use it cause it's "up there" in levels when I chose it. I know what MoG does. Know my powers... Know melee against a power that really doesn't allow melee to be used when it's on all the time.
I hate to point it out, since you enjoy acting like MoG's permastate is some martyr sacrificed on the bloody altar of Defender godlyhood, but when Moment of Glory got deperma'd, there were no Defender combos that could actually mez through intergration anyway.
And if you feel like Hurricane is equal to Moment of Glory, tell me how it fills my endurance bar and provides immortality to all but psi/toxic damage? I must have missed the mez protection.
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I think I can sum up his point like this
"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"
I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.
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Dys.. Sigh. No one likes to be nerfed. I've argued a point here with some rational people and others like yourself who will start name calling because you don't want to be nerfed.. Well. It happens. And when it does, you'll whine like I did with Regen and you'll think of every reason in the world you shouldn't have been nerfed that will make complete sense to you, complete nonsense to others, and in the end you'll be where I was and you'll have to deal with it like I did. IH and MoG are no longer perma. And because they're not, you live because of your now overpowered(like IH and MoG were overpowered). When you're nerfed and things aren't overpowered and we can fight equally with our wonderful clickie non perma uber powers, all will be good in the world.
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I hate to point it out, since you enjoy acting like MoG's permastate is some martyr sacrificed on the bloody altar of Defender godlyhood, but when Moment of Glory got deperma'd, there were no Defender combos that could actually mez through intergration anyway.
And if you feel like Hurricane is equal to Moment of Glory, tell me how it fills my endurance bar and provides immortality to all but psi/toxic damage? I must have missed the mez protection.
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Int's toggles gets knocked off of me constantly and I get held. Why? Cause people can run up to me, punch me, and drop off my "godlike" toggle. If I could run up, punch, and knock off Hurricane then I'd be happy. My arms aren't long enough to reach past the hurricane that throws me back every time to knock it off though.
You have phase shift. While phased, you can not be repeled, can not have your accuracy debuffed. If you que up a brawl before dephasing, you can easily hit a Stormer. If you actually got one of the better powers in your primary, you could que up a MEZ and instantly detoggle a Stormer.
If you had Teleport, you could port in with an attack qued and have the same thing happen. It's how my Warshade Sunless Mires off Storm Shaman.
There, you can run up and punch a stormer. Happy?
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Umm. How about we nerf Hurricane first then I'll worry about choosing powers after the nerf?
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The power we are talking about is one of the many that means Hurricane doesn't NEED to be nerfed. If you choose not to take it, that's your lookout.
And I'd still be interested in hearing how come stun grenades 'don't work for you'. We can take this to Test if you like. I'll stand there with Hurricane running, and you can throw stun grenades at me, and we'll record the result.
For the record, last time I was in Siren's I fought a Brute who was able to avoid my Hurricane and stun me so that it dropped, simply by dropping on me from above.
I suggest they make a dedicated pvp zone for each AT and be done with it.
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Okay, so you didn't take a mez from your primary. Somehow Stun Grenades 'won't work' for you, I assume blowing up in your hand or something. You aren't willing to get Teleport, you aren't willing to get Phase Shift, and you aren't willing to devote a lot of time to killing something. You're unwilling to team with a Dominator or a melee character who has tried any of the above solutions. Oh, and you somehow are unable to penetrate a hurricane, something my Claws/Regen can do without a travel power, Focus, or Moment of Glory. Did you know Moment of Glory has Repel resistance, btw?
And, because of all of these, you want Hurricane made useless. Does that sum it up?
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yup.
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I think I can sum up his point like this
"Waaaa, Regen got nerfed in the past, I'm too lazy to tailor my build, team and tactics to counter something that presents me a challenge in PvP, and therefore I want that challenge nerfed"
I think Kid might be more comfortable playing an FPS with godmode on. That seems like about the level of thought and effort he wants to expend on facing challenges in PvP here.
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Dys.. Sigh. No one likes to be nerfed. I've argued a point here with some rational people and others like yourself who will start name calling because you don't want to be nerfed.. Well. It happens. And when it does, you'll whine like I did with Regen and you'll think of every reason in the world you shouldn't have been nerfed that will make complete sense to you, complete nonsense to others, and in the end you'll be where I was and you'll have to deal with it like I did. IH and MoG are no longer perma. And because they're not, you live because of your now overpowered(like IH and MoG were overpowered). When you're nerfed and things aren't overpowered and we can fight equally with our wonderful clickie non perma uber powers, all will be good in the world.
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What rational arguement? I havent seen one from you.
All I see from you is whining about long ago regen nerfs and stubborn refusal to learn how to deal with something that challenges your favourite ATs.
You can either learn to adapt, or you can go play a game that doesnt present you with any challenges.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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i seriously think that if the devs set the attack range floor to 5 feet (or whatever) everything would be fine.
hurricane would be good, but not overpowered.
ranged aoes could still be used.
melee classes could still use melee attacks.
and the devs could finally get around to allowing hurricane to properly debuff the ranged attacks for melee classes instead of this cheap bandaid-fix we have now.
yes, i'm sick of getting ganked by spines scrappers, what can i say?
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While I did say that a range floor would be a good change, I will only agree to it if lightning storm loses its cheap bandaid toggle droppers...
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i thought this was about hurricane.
start your own thread, dood!
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Hey, I can't respond to cheap shots about cheap bandaids with cheap shots about other cheap bandaids?
Besides, I already had my own thread about this a few months ago. I don't want another one. 
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Oh yeah.
They should also add a Temp Power that lets a Defender do 80% of Blaster damage in a PVP Zone and gives them native Mez Protection.
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These temporary powers all ready exist. They're called inspirations.
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*nod* In that case, every toon in the game has 95% accuracy against all targets, capped damage, unbreakable mez protection, infinite endurance and health, 90% damage resistance, and 95% defense against all targets.
NERF EVERYONE!
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YES!! And their mom's too!!! :-b