The Theory of Updates and the Casual Player
By
Ariel_NA,
Posted on: 2004-11-29 14:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One aspect of casual gameing is the ability to solo and progress through content.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And with that fallacy as a central premise I can easily ignore the rest of your post.
Preference for soloing or grouping has nothing to do with casual vs advancement driven play.
[/ QUOTE ]
What the heck do you mean by Casual vs advancement driven play? Are you implying that casual players do not want to advance?
Second how is the statement a fallacy. Please assure me that you are grouped 24/7 and do not solo at all. I would love to hear you make that statement.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, the Casualties of Sloganism. 
I'll take "Mission Interior Decorators" for $200 Alex
BTW, my compliments to the artists behind the new Drug-Lab warehouses for the Skulls. Looks like an honest to goodness upscale Meth Lab in those missions. Even the chemical haze screams: "Pack this in your glass pipe!" 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol.
Sorry about that!
You were right, I was wrong, etc. [Rent Happy Gilmore and fast forward to the scene with Carl Weathers for the whole spiel.]
In my defense I don't think it was a drastic misinterpretation, there was some vagueness there.
But, still, it was a very incorrect assumption. Thanks for clarifying.
And not flaming. 
I like all the little things you add to "old" missions, those features are really nice little bonuses.
Today I was playing my bottom alt (character #8) and had a cave mission that was wide and sort of seascaped, with a sand floor. It was so easy to navigate, in some ways it was better than a warehouse because you never had to look up or hunt through crates. I was so shocked, I stayed in that mission for over an hour.
But the burning Hellion ones and all the weird lab equipment, everything smoky...those are billiant.
Oh well, hopefully he comes back to see my chagrin.
Now I wish I'd never posted. I thought it was a very odd thing for Statesman to say.
(Because he didn't)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Trying to make a post that does not out right say
"Give it up Statesman" but I can not find any other words....
For everything you and the other Devs do that makes 3/4 of the people happy, you will always have the knit pickers, nay sayers, the "what about ME" people and the just people who complain in general. Sorry to see your SIGH because if you took the time to write it, I wonder how long it took you to actually do it 
There are those of us that are happy with the changes and the game and dont tear apart everything you say till it is distorted to the point that is NOT what was said, implied, or commented on. PLEASE I love hearing your thoughts (Like the Tanker issues) but be warned, if you even breath a thought, well, you might as well write it in stone, because that is how it will be taken... (look at the EPPs...)
OH and just a note... (In a Mothers voice) You need to know that if you are on a holiday break, although we love hearing from you guys LEAVE THE WORK AT WORK!!!! Take your break or you will be the ones getting burned out!!! and THAT will not be good for the game... No need to post right before you plan on catching a plane home, you should have been saying bye to the family and all... That goes to all of you. (OK I am done with the overbearing Mothering voice. 
)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
:ats Jack's shoulder:: Hang in there. I have some turkey and stuffing from yesterday. It'll make you feel better.
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Post like that you should have ignored. Most of us already know what you mean. The rest like to nitpick.
[ QUOTE ]
OH and just a note... (In a Mothers voice) You need to know that if you are on a holiday break, although we love hearing from you guys LEAVE THE WORK AT WORK!!!! Take your break or you will be the ones getting burned out!!! and THAT will not be good for the game... No need to post right before you plan on catching a plane home, you should have been saying bye to the family and all... That goes to all of you. (OK I am done with the overbearing Mothering voice. )
[/ QUOTE ]
i love this post.....it's true, and i love it. everyone needs the time down every now and then.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One aspect of casual gameing is the ability to solo and progress through content.
[/ QUOTE ]
And with that fallacy as a central premise I can easily ignore the rest of your post.
Preference for soloing or grouping has nothing to do with casual vs advancement driven play.
[/ QUOTE ]I guess you are missing his point then:
casual play means you have a limited time and shedule tp play in.
Teaming allways takes more time than soloing, there is no dount about it, between waiting to get a team together and doing other pwoples mission before your own, you take a good chunk of time in which you dont advance through your own content.
Playing at odd hours may make finding a team, hard, and sometimes fruitless..
I'll give an example ; yesterday I had about half an hour of time to play, I found a team in everret lake, and after killing two spaws, they disbanded. So i was left with 15 minutes, and a completely empty perez park. finding another team, in another zone would have taken any time I had left. SOloing or logging was my option. So, I logged.
Completely in agreement.
I'm a casual gamer with some extra hours to put in occassionally and I find the game almost perfectly paced for me. I'm almost one level ahead of the game update pace and I'm curbing my leveling just slightly to enjoy the content as it comes out.
The power gamers that hit 50 too fast, I kind of feel for them, but it's the great gamers that I know that hit 50 already, with a good pace, that I feel needs the most love in this way. And I think the updates are giving them that love.
Good post.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Combining the very informal "chan" suffix with the formal "desu"? 
Sikyanakotik has corrected your japanese grammar for 646.23 points of pedagogical damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
I heard people doing it all the time when I was over there.
*shrugs* Text books get ya nowhere!
BTW. Why are there no dentists in honolulu??
Ha wa ii!
[/ QUOTE ]
They're different kinds of formality, anyway. "Chan" is an informal way of referring to a specific person OR a polite way of referring to a small child (it's only "informal" in the truest sense if you're talking to a very close friend.) Your whole speech pattern doesn't become informal just because you're talking to a close friend or small child. (hell, in the latter case, you'd probably be -extra- formal, to set a good example) Not to mention the fact that "Desu" isn't just -formal-, it's polite. abbreviations and substitutes for "desu" generally accompany very brash, impolite ways of talking that a "proper" japanese would generally avoid.
But the main thing is just that "chan" has more to do with your relationship in regards to the other person then the politeness of your grammar.
And there's your pointless japanese lesson for the day. ;p
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Council is made up of the Nictus-controlled people, etc, of which Requiem was one from the start. It would appear that him and the rest of his troops decided now was the time to take over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Take over WHAT?
Requiem was already in charge.
I'm really annoyed with the change (though happy that they claim they are restoring the history plaques), and even more annoyed that a repackaging of an existing villain group is being labeled as "new content", but I will say this:
ONE Story Arc or TF to explain the 5th/Council conflict and takeover would be enough to satisfy me. If Statesman, or any other Dev for that matter, posted in this thread saying "there is a story arc/TF that goes into detail about the 5th/Council war" I will be satisfied. I would also (obviously) be satisfied if someone who has actually seen something of this nature on the Test server, says that it is already there.
Another thing of note is that we were promised two things in Issue 3: a council and a war. What we got was a renamed villain group we already had as the council, and a couple of spawns and newspaper articles as a war. There is obviously no turning back on the Council thing, but at least we could ask for more in the "war" department.
War is a big word, it doesn't describe a couple of fights. If all they are giving us is spawns, at least we could get them all over the place (like 4 or so spawns per zone), especially in Steel Canyon, Boomtown, and Brickstown, the three major areas of 5th/Council influence. And it would be nice if they had dialogue that might help explain what is going on, I didn't see any when I watched and fought them in IP.
Striga Isle is very cool, I'm thrilled to finally have alliance chat , and I'm moderately happy with the mission difficulty slider (there should be some way to restore pre-Issue 2 +0 only missions to the low-end game). Just wanted to add some positives in there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you considered that maaaaybe...JUST MAYBE...
There might be an event about it on the live servers?
[/ QUOTE ]
At the risk of contributing to the hijacking of this thread, I started a new character two weeks ago (which for me as a card-carrying "casual" player means I've gotten him to 8th level) and I noticed that, even though he had a Science origin, he was given a number of 5th C missions.
This may be a hint of some upcoming event or not. Take it as you will.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't suppose there's any chance of that happening for higher level missions anytime soon, is there?
[/ QUOTE ]
They did some with Issue 2--the early outdoors Carnie missions was a standard outdoors map under Issue 1, with Issue 2 they added the big circus tents.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Addendum: The 5th aren't gone, either. You can still see them in PI (and reportedly IP).
[/ QUOTE ]
I can conferm them in IP. Was looking for the Giant Oct when I come upon a large group (9) of 5th Column fighting a Large group (7) of the Council. All shotting at each other and useing bats and all. (some of the placments of mobs were buggy). After attacking one 5th, the whole group broke loose. 2 Council Bosses ran around a corner all they all attacked each other (NOT ME). I Hovered up out of the way of all the AoE granads and watched as the Council defeated the 5th (tho it was only the two Council Bosses left standing)
Every interesting set of content I might add. In the next 1 1/2 hours I did not see another set up like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but then, you're saying that if you attack a group that's pantomiming a gang brawl, they actually start attacking each other instead of ganging up on you and then forgetting their differences once you're dead? 0_0
If true, THAT by itself makes me immensely happy with this update.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two more quick examples: The Rularuu "invasion" and the Holloween Event
Did y'all notice how when the Ru invaded, none of the contacts seemed to notice? Worse still, none of the pedestrians did either. I guess they were too busy worrying about Skulls & Hellions stealing their purses to notice GIANT FLYING EYEBALLS swatting heroes like flies. Near as I can figure, we're the only ones who were scared of them
Same thing with the Holloween event. Giant Pumpkin Heads running around town, and my low level contact wants me to go out and stop the Skulls rampage.
Given that these were limited time events, and seeing how much work went into the models, animations, etc. Would it have been too much to ask that our contacts at least acknowledged these other more immediate concerns? A temporary suspension of "business as usual" to focus on the immediate threat would done wonders for the feeling of immersion.
You don't need to single out any individual players to make the population as whole feel like it is a part of the "story" being played out, but as it is, we are locked into this "eternal now" where each issue the back-story of the game is updated, and the clock moved forward, but where the events within the game have no consequence.
Personally, I think having ephemeral content, that reflects the current state of the "story" and changes (or goes away) as the story evolves and new content was introduced, would keep me interested and excited far more than all the badges, Epic ATs, and Auxilliary Power Pools put together.
I know this was a thread about updates and casual players, but as a casual player (highest char is 36 after 7 months) , what I'd most like to see is the overall story of CoH reflected in the game I'm currently playing, not integrated or retconned into the back-story. If the Devs focused on this, game balance and bug fixes from update to update, I would gladly forgo just about every other new feature.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is such a cool idea.
I hope some Dev is reading this and takes a few notes on how to really bring home these invasion type scenarios in this game.
How friggin cool would it have been to be solving the mystery of the Halloween event or the Rularuu event through missions?
Heck, even if you finished it out with a Positron like, 'Thanks for the hard work, the Freedom Phalanx rode in and saved the dam thanks to you!'.
That would just be too cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree with your ideals, I don't think it's realistic to expect something like this. I mean, What you're basically suggesting is that they:
A) Derail the normal operations of the game for the sake of a temporary event, which is inevitably going to piss off anybody who doesn't want to deal with the event itself. Think about all the people that complained about the Rulaaru event simply because their characters couldn't well handle the spawns? Any villian group is going to have it's strengths and weaknesses, meaning that there are going to be heroes who excel against them and heroes that suck against them. My regen scrapper kicked rularru [censored]. my fire blaster (a soloing powerhouse, normally) got his [censored] shot out of the sky in -seconds-.
So who do they try to please with these event-specific missions? Team players? Soloists? Casual players? Hardcore players? And in ANY EVENT, it all basically means that
B) -they'd have to go through all the trouble of writing, coding and creating missions, all for the sake of a relative handful of their userbase, for -one- weekend, after which they'd have to throw them away. (otherwise it wouldn't be an -event-, would it?) That's a LOT of work to please a pretty small portion of the player base for a limited period of time. then when it's over, they'd be constantly hearing the ******* of people who had to work, or who didn't have time to complete all the missions, or the TF, or whatever.
While I agree that a story arc or TF dealing with the changeover would be a cool and very doable idea, no temporary event is going to exist on the scale that you're asking for here. It's just not feasible, in my opinion. I'd love the devs to prove me wrong on this, but I think it's maybe a little unreasonable to expect them to.
Just my 2 inf. ;p
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One aspect of casual gameing is the ability to solo and progress through content.
[/ QUOTE ]
And with that fallacy as a central premise I can easily ignore the rest of your post.
Preference for soloing or grouping has nothing to do with casual vs advancement driven play.
[/ QUOTE ]I guess you are missing his point then:
casual play means you have a limited time and shedule tp play in.
Teaming allways takes more time than soloing, there is no dount about it, between waiting to get a team together and doing other pwoples mission before your own, you take a good chunk of time in which you dont advance through your own content.
Playing at odd hours may make finding a team, hard, and sometimes fruitless..
I'll give an example ; yesterday I had about half an hour of time to play, I found a team in everret lake, and after killing two spaws, they disbanded. So i was left with 15 minutes, and a completely empty perez park. finding another team, in another zone would have taken any time I had left. SOloing or logging was my option. So, I logged.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the problem is that the term "casual gamer" is so nebulous. It could mean people who don't have a lot of time to play, it could mean people who don't -TAKE- a lot of time to play, it could mean people who spend lots of time playing but aren't particularly obsessive about it, it could be people who don't play at all 6 days out of the week but spend half a day on sunday. Or it could be none or all of the above.
So basically people who are speaking on behalf of casual gamers REALLY mean "gamers like me". Which may be a valid argument. Maybe Person A is part of a large community of people with similar habits. But if he calls that community "casual gamers" and person B has a different definition of "casual gamers", person B immediately assumes person A is full of [censored]. Person A is speaking honestly, so he assumes person B is full of [censored].
Personally, I think a casual gamer can be a lot of things. And I don't nessecarily agree that grouping ALWAYS takes longer then soloing. If you have a solid group of friends that's on the same hours you are, then it's easy for you to pull together a group and start having fun. Sure, it may not get you through YOUR MISSIONS faster, but you're still playing and enjoying yourself.
On the other hand, for some people, forming a group is a difficult and tedious process. it can vary depending on the time of day you can play, the server you're on, dumb luck...
I think there are "casual team players" and "casual soloers" So claims that team based content is screwing the "casual gamer" aren't accurate. they're screwing SOME casual gamers. And some more then others, at that. The problem is, when someone feels they're getting screwed, they're rarely calm enough to make such distinctions.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
[ QUOTE ]
What I've read in the Dev's Digest and what I see in the game are completely different. They've BEEN customizing the missions, I've already seen the stuff on the low level missions, but I swear, if I see another damn office building or cave...
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh! I like office buildings! It's those caves I'm sick of...too many!!! More warehoues, outdoor instances pls.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I've read in the Dev's Digest and what I see in the game are completely different. They've BEEN customizing the missions, I've already seen the stuff on the low level missions, but I swear, if I see another damn office building or cave...
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh! I like office buildings! It's those caves I'm sick of...too many!!! More warehoues, outdoor instances pls.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've lost so much time trying to find the last glowie in a cave...
[ QUOTE ]
I think there are "casual team players" and "casual soloers" So claims that team based content is screwing the "casual gamer" aren't accurate. they're screwing SOME casual gamers. And some more then others, at that. The problem is, when someone feels they're getting screwed, they're rarely calm enough to make such distinctions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really agree that team-based content is screwing anyone at all. The people getting "screwed" as you say, were the soloing casual gamers anyway. More teaming does not mean less soloing.
Not everyone likes aliens. Stop assuming everyone wants dinosaurs or aliens or whatever in game. This is not AVP or Joe and Mac, it's city of heroes tyvm
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Auxiliary Power Pools - levels 40 up -------cool
Kheldians - level 50--------------------------kinda cool
Council - all levels----------------------------so sad
Striga Isle - levels 20 - 30-------------------eh
Mission Customization - all levels-----------yawn
Global Chat - all levels----------------------worthless
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh okay. Thanks for letting us know, champ. Always good to know there's only One True Opinion around here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Consider that two then, because this pretty much sums it up for me as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Am i not entitled to my opinion? Ah ok your right everything in this update is really great!!!!
Just dosen't seem like I3 is as anticipated as I2 was. For some it's even dreaded.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't suppose there's any chance of that happening for higher level missions anytime soon, is there?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is already happening. Tyrant's mission is now in a Lair type thing. Mother Mayhem's mission (on the praetorian arc I believe) is in a Hospital like setting. In Update 2, they redid the carnie outdoor mission and put a tent.
You obviously don't group with other people otherwise you would know of these changes and upcoming changes.
This space is intentionally left blank.
Don't let some players bother you over this States, this is great! I can't believe how much more fun the old missions that i've done multiple times are with just some new textures and graphics.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mission customization: Choosing between "regular" mobs and +2 level mobs is not really what I would call a customized mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know what might be really "super" is adding in actual interactive instanced mission content - breakable walls, throwable objects, exploding things when hit, etc. Since instanced missions are just a heartbeat away from being a single player experience, it would not be any harder to implement than say a "new" version of a trial zone called something fancy and slapped into a new update. And since the mobs are pretty much the "stand-around-and-wait-until-the-player-finds-us" type, it would not interfere with the flow of the mission to have this kind of interactivity.
Now, I don't expect this kind of interactivity to be in the open game world - that would be to problematic. But in instanced missions, I've been expecting this kind of interactivity since the first update. Maybe I should say that I've been hoping... Anyway, new fog effects and some new glowies to click on don't make the missions more interesting. Hopefully this isn't your idea of "updating" the older missions. My interest in CoH has been waning for the last month or so because of the lack of interesting updates to missions and other areas in the game (the Force Sensitive slots is still a huge thorn, imo. I want to make my character epic, not start all over with the kewl AT).
I think the developers are doing a great job. There are issues that I would like resolved according to my wishes, but I am a realist and an idealist and I can separate. It is human nature to complain, and not compliment. I think the reviews, player base and such tell the larger picture: The game is great. No one will ever be able to satisfy everyone and it should not be attempted. Thank you for a very satisfying experience in MMORPGing. I cannot wait for City of Villains, and for level 50.
[ QUOTE ]
Sigh. That isn't at all what I meant. Mission Customization means, well, a mission has been customized. It's where we go back over old missions and add new art & functionality.
[/ QUOTE ]And we really appreciate it, States. I just saw some screenshots of the new Dr. Vahzilok mission, and I can't wait to get a Kheldian to the level range where I can run it again!
Keep the mission customization coming. New content is good, but being surprised by old content when you experience it again with an alt is pretty nice too