The Theory of Updates and the Casual Player
By
Ariel_NA,
Posted on: 2004-11-29 14:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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One aspect of casual gameing is the ability to solo and progress through content.
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And with that fallacy as a central premise I can easily ignore the rest of your post.
Preference for soloing or grouping has nothing to do with casual vs advancement driven play.
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I love Statesman, but I think we need to be fair here:
Global chat is not content-related under any circumstance whatsover. If anything, the clunkiness is more aimed toward powergamers than casual gamers. Also, if you're soloing, why would you need global chat? (Ie., a team-oriented feature.)
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It's not that clunky. I've been playing with it on test and its easy to setup. People just whine because they can't type well or sit down for a minute to LEARN it.
Plus, Global Chat is meant for the more hardcore'ish crowd but also the casual crowd. If multiple SG's have Alliances, they can chat back and forth all the time in one channel ie: more hardcore'ish crowd. And for the casual people, they can get them and their friends their own private channel made and then chat in it all they want.
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Im pretty damn excited about the Issue 3. Perhaps I just lucked out with my timing but I am going to hit 50 this evening, in plenty of time for the new Issue.
I fall well within the definition of casual gamer that the OP stated (I have been playing since release). I have no alt higher than 10 so I have managed to stay pretty focused.
On the occasions where I have gone back and seen some of the low level content; I have been impressed.
I cant wait to revisit the older (updated) content and experience the new stuff with my new toon.
Yes, before anyone feels the need to point it out, Im a complete fanboi. Cryptic has earned that by so consistently kicking butt. Anyone who has played other MMOs for any significant period of time know what a rare and difficult thing this is to accomplish.
49.7 and rising! 
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Actually, our updates are intended to cover ALL levels (as much as possible).
Auxiliary Power Pools - levels 40 up
Kheldians - level 50
Council - all levels
Striga Isle - levels 20 - 30
Mission Customization - all levels
Global Chat - all levels
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All levels sure ... And no doubt all great additions to an already great game.
But would you please comment on the increasing types of additions to the game which force grouping and require larger blocks of time in each session to complete. And the effects of these additions on "Casual Players" (for the purposes of this discussion defined as not playing for more than 2 hours in any single session) ???
Specifically additions in which the rewards are otherwise unobtainable. Like Issue 2's Respec, and future TFs to unlock new ATs.
While it is technically possible to complete TFs over a few sessions, in practice it's virtually impossible for the "Casual Player" to accomplish.
The rewards for completing "Regular Task Forces" (except for the badges), are obtainable by anyone over time (like Single Origin Enhancements, Experience, and Influence).
Aren't rewards that truely affect one's gameplay experience, like being allowed to Respec your hero or to be able to make a new type of AT, the types of things that everyone should be able to experience, regardless of their ability to play for a specific amount of time per session ???
I'm not refering to the E.A.T.'s in Issue 3, everyone has the opportunity to reach level 50 at their own pace and experience them on their own terms.
But functional rewards which are tied to specific grouping/time commited tasks, and are otherwise unavailable (realistically, not technically) through "Casual Play", are less accessible to the entire paying playerbase.
Is this an intended trend and direction for future City of Heros game features and something we'll be seeing more of in future issues ??? Or is there any consideration to making these types of functional features available to all players over time ...
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What does Statesman mean by "Council"?
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Replacement villain group for 5th column.
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So the game can be sold in Germany.
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Auxiliary Power Pools - levels 40 up -------cool
Kheldians - level 50--------------------------kinda cool
Council - all levels----------------------------so sad
Striga Isle - levels 20 - 30-------------------eh
Mission Customization - all levels-----------yawn
Global Chat - all levels----------------------worthless
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I disagree with your sentiment. For me changes have the following importance:
- Bug fixes.
- Class and power balance.
- Content difficulty.
- New content. (This includes mission customization)
- New costume options.
- New power options.
- New ATs or primary/secondary pools.
- Large quality of life features.
I assume bug fixes will always trickle out in minor updates.
The number one issue argued on these boards is class and power balance. For a player with a "problematic" build this is the number one quality of life issue for the game that leads to the most frustration. This, IMO, should be top priority. Not having stacking armor for existing builds for example is criminal. It really affects the everyday quality of life for those players. To introduce a new 50+ only AT that does have stacking armor when you haven't finished it for existing characters is like a kick to the groin for them. Tanks issues are another problem. Things like this should have number one priority since these impact the affected players the most.
Second is content difficulty. The game has a wide variety of players with a wide variety of effectiveness. Everyone wants a fun experience. The second most commented on issue here seems to be mission difficulty. Therefore the difficulty slider is probably the number one feature of this update. I think it is overshadowed by the difficulty increase - fewer people need it now that difficulty has been jacked, and the lack of an option to reduce difficulty is something I personally don't agree with. I also think a mission to mission slider would have made more sense and made the game more playable. None-the-less the ability to change mission difficulty in some form was very important to the game - bigger than anything else in this update.
Striga Isle provides more content and more world. This is always excellent and much needed. This is an important part of the ongoing game. Right now I could almost level up 2 characters and never do the same missions. I would like to see the game provide 4 different mission paths for maximum replayability.
I personally think that *every* update should have additional character costume options. It gives existing characters a chance to freshen up their look and adds visual diversity to characters. This should be generic options in addition to specials like capes and auras. More patterns, or more options on current costume pieces. The fact is that everyone is looking for something that could affect *their* character every update and fresh costume options are one thing that does this - even if I don't use them I will likely spend time playing with them at icon.
The problem is that most players have one or more characters they are already playing. They don't want specialty stuff like the Kheldians. If you want the 50 crowd to revisit content then the devs could have easily added new AT options right at level 1. If you added, say, a two gun character and a staff fighter instead of the Kheldians how many high level players would have rolled one up to check them out? Probably the same number as those who tried the Kheldians, but you are giving more casual players the same options. I don't see what advantage making level 50 ATs gave to the game - better more generic and accessible options would have served the same purpose and added much more to the game. This would have affected the game at all levels and still given a reason for the 50+ crowd to revisit low level content. I am not saying the Kheldians are a bad idea, I just think that they are not an efficient use of the devs time. The impact on the game is too low for the work required. Two new basic ATs would have a much bigger and better impact on the game for the same amount of work.
The new epic power pools are cute. I like them. There seems to be an imbalance in the various sets but I like them. I am really disappointed that they did not offer the blaster/defender crowd some kind of limited statis protection. It is much needed at that level. But they give the high level types new toys which is good.
All in all this is an okay update and the reason people are not enthusiastic is that there is too little that affects the day to day play of the average player. Issue #2 was much better. New katana and MA animations meant that there was a large influx of players rolling new characters to try them out. Everyone 20+ was scrambling to get capes and at higher levels auras. Everyone was rushing to finish the respec mission. There was a huge flood of activity.
Issue #3 has none of that. Quality of life character enhancements fell to the wayside. New character options affect very few people. Other that the mission slider there isn't that much that directly affects my main character or even any of my alts. This was IMO a mistake. Issue #3 have failed to generate the same excitement for these reasons.
If I was to to give the Devs advice on issue #4 and later, here's what is would be:
- Every issue should have new costume options. Generic options like patterns and new hats/heads/whatever. This provides something that every player can immediately play with for any character.
- The game needs new primary and secondary pools in some ATs. The buzz about the current ATs is getting repetitive. Players know how to build most AT combos now. They need fresh new things to design and compare to. New ATs accessible by new players make the character options richer for new players and give long term players reasons to revisit the game. The Kheldians were a fumble because for the same amount of work you could have tripled the impact on the game.
- If you can introduce new power pools. Just the addition of a new power pool means every character has to re-evaluate their own characters to see if the inclusion of the pool is good for them. They have potential new toys. The changes to fear did a bit for this since the Presence pool is now a viable and IMO powerful option to consider but you could add new pools for even more of this.
- Good job on the new zones. These are a much needed part of the game. Continue to add these new zones and new content. Good job on freshening up the missions. Every story arc should end in a specialized mission. FrostFire rocked. The Wheel of Destruction is much better in the graveyard. I would have liked to see the graveyard have fog ala DA though. The low level freshened missions are great. MORE of this!
- We are all waiting for PvP so we can have new topics to whine about and new NERFs to call for when dealing with other player ATs. I am anxiously awaiting the "NERF Elec blasters" posts. 
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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What does Statesman mean by "Council"?
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Replacement villain group for 5th column.
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Thanks!
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What does Statesman mean by "Council"?
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Replacement villain group for 5th column.
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So the game can be sold in Germany.
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Hasn't this been disproven about six times by now?
The Council are no less Nazi-like than the 5th. How does replacing once neo-Nazi group with another make the game sell better in Germany?
Addendum: The 5th aren't gone, either. You can still see them in PI (and reportedly IP).
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But would you please comment on the increasing types of additions to the game which force grouping and require larger blocks of time in each session to complete. And the effects of these additions on "Casual Players" (for the purposes of this discussion defined as not playing for more than 2 hours in any single session) ???
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I am not denying that there appears to be a move toward more group dependence (e.g. "bring a few friends" missions) and time intensive content, but your definition of casual play is far too restrictive. Maybe two hours on average could be used to define casual play, but I'd say two and a half to three hours is a better range.
If your lifestyle does not allow you to block out three or even four hours, essentially dinner and a movie, on occassion to do some of the TF's or Trials, you are not even much of a casual player. You are more of an occassional player -- as I would label anyone who plays for 10 or less hours a week. There is already plenty of content, forced grouping or otherwise, for the occassional player. They are not likely to ever run out, even at the (relatively slow) rate the devs are releasing new content. The fact that this type of player may miss out on some content is unfortunate, but perhaps inevitable.
As long as the devs are devoted to doing the right thing by embedding things like respec'ing into the context of the game, as opposed to some simple (and lame) interface, occassional players will just have to realize that some extra committment may be neeed to get the most out of the game.
Agree on this. Staesamn has siad on many occasions this is the furthering of a storyline, not an attempt to make the game "PC" overseas.
On a personal note, I don't see the big deal about why anyone would get pissed about them being Nazi's anyways. We are beating the crap out of them, aren't we? Plus, its not like each 5th column member we fight are directly responsible for anything that happened over 60 years ago in real life as it is.
Oh man, I'm on a soapbox. Damn you for making me do this. This sounds as bad as when I got into an argument on Remembrance Day with a German dude who wasn't wearing a poppy becasue it represented a "war against his people".
What bothers me most are people who want the game to be changed because they don't have enough time to play; that's like saying that the game Risk should be changed because you don't have enough time to play through the whole thing (a good game can take 7+ hours). Why should City of Heroes, which is accesible to people with all playstyles and time scales, be made completely accesible to people who can't put much time into it? Name one hobby that actually benefits from having less time to engage in it.
I am a casual player. I play at MOST 10 hours a week. I usually play solo or with at most 2 other people. I think the game is great and the new zone has my interest. I have played since the first day and my higest guy is only level 31. My other two are mid-twenties and late teens.
I do not think that the update isn't "solo friendly". I do agree that a bunch of new "features" are useless to my game enjoyment, but so what. I am .00001% of the user base. I think as long as there is something for everyone, great. I have no interest in the epic ATs. Don't have any interest for me now or when I hit 50 with my main. Other people like them. If I were to wish for one thing to make my game experience better it wouldn't be more powers, changing power color, ect. It would simply be to lower the minimum number of task force members to 4 for ALL task forces. Heck, even 3 people. I want to do Manitcore's TF. 7 people?! It will never happen for me. That is something I find too bad.
Enough about that. As long as every update has something, however small, for everyone, good. Simply making more and more missions unique is a great thing in itself.
I am really looking forward to the Global Chat addition, if it works the way I think the description says it does I will be able to play one of my many characters on other servers and still be able to chat with my friends who seem to only stick to Champion.
The Private Chat channel may or may not work over multiple servers. (I hope it does) But being able to see when friends come online on a different server will be a huge help as well. I will be able to pick a character and play it and see when a friend I want to play with comes on. So I can then switch Servers and go hang out with my friends.
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Addendum: The 5th aren't gone, either. You can still see them in PI (and reportedly IP).
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I can conferm them in IP. Was looking for the Giant Oct when I come upon a large group (9) of 5th Column fighting a Large group (7) of the Council. All shotting at each other and useing bats and all. (some of the placments of mobs were buggy). After attacking one 5th, the whole group broke loose. 2 Council Bosses ran around a corner all they all attacked each other (NOT ME). I Hovered up out of the way of all the AoE granads and watched as the Council defeated the 5th (tho it was only the two Council Bosses left standing)
Every interesting set of content I might add. In the next 1 1/2 hours I did not see another set up like that.
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I am really looking forward to the Global Chat addition, if it works the way I think the description says it does I will be able to play one of my many characters on other servers and still be able to chat with my friends who seem to only stick to Champion.
The Private Chat channel may or may not work over multiple servers. (I hope it does) But being able to see when friends come online on a different server will be a huge help as well. I will be able to pick a character and play it and see when a friend I want to play with comes on. So I can then switch Servers and go hang out with my friends.
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I agree...I can't wait for the Global Chat. I have three servers filled up with alts that I never play because I'd miss out on talking with my friends as I play. Now I won't have this problem.
Emerald Sky
@Emerald Sky
@Lava Dome
@Power Chip
Statesman I hope that's not your list of the best features of Update 3. Here's my ratiings on them.
Auxiliary Power Pools - * - Another step away from a MMORPG and towards an online FPS game.
Kheldians - * - Oh boy. I get to play new characters that are aliens after playing another character for 50 levels. Pass.
Council - ** - Not very interesting actually.
Striga Isle - *** - More places to have missions is good I guess.
Mission Customization - * - A toggle between normal and higher difficulty doesn't qualify as content. It barely qualifies as a feature and is another step away from MMORPG to FPS.
Global Chat - * - What a complete waste of developer resources and what will undoubtably be the source of inummerable bugs and other problems in the future.
The most important changes, for me, that I see in the next update are:
You can now hit an opponent with a melee attack while chasing after them.
Some columns in supergroup, search, email, and friend windows can now be resized
The Supergroup window has been revamped. Unnecessary fields were removed and it now displays level and map. The window is also 2-stage collapsible, the header can be hidden, and then the bottom buttons can be hidden as well.
It is depressing that in each update the best things are the bug-fixes and UI improvements.
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It is depressing that in each update the best things are the bug-fixes and UI improvements.
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Let me finish that sentence for you.
... for me, because I realize that my personal opinions are not necessarily shared by anyone, let alone a majority of players.
That cuts both ways. I can no more presume that my opinion reflects that of the majority than you can presume it does not.
Or do you normally assume that every post is supposed to represent you as well? This may comes as a shock but they aren't all about you.
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Hasn't this been disproven about six times by now?
The Council are no less Nazi-like than the 5th. How does replacing once neo-Nazi group with another make the game sell better in Germany?
Addendum: The 5th aren't gone, either. You can still see them in PI (and reportedly IP).
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Did the Ubelman the Unknown story arc on the Test Server get changed back to a Nazi hero of old trying to come to the future to change history, or is it still about the Civil War and 'the Center's grandmother?
Is Axis Amerika back, or is it still changed to Council America?
Is there any indication whatsoever throughout the new Council mission line that the Council has any ties of any form to the old idealogy that the 5th Column supported?
The above are honest questions, not whining. If they've been changed back along with all the history plaques that were mistakenly re-written, then you're absolutely right.
If they haven't been changed back, then I completely disagree. The 5th Column are gone for all practical purposes, a scant few token NPC battles aside, have been removed from the game story content (game story content being stories told through missions, mini-arcs, story arcs, and task forces).
This isn't meant as a bash. I just disagree with the idea that the Council is new content, unless a repackaging of old content into something only very slightly different can be considered 'new'.
I have no arguments about why it may or may not have been necessary, or whether this rehashing of the 5th Column into the Council with only cursory changes to the existing 5th Column content has been in the 'story bible' since day one or not.
I mean, if we took the X-Men right now and suddenly retitled the book, the Z-Men, renamed Professor Xavier to Doctor Zenox, and gave him hair and a peg leg, and renamed Cyclops to One-Eye and changed the ruby to sapphire, Marvel Girl to Neato Girl, and Wolverine to Claw Hands, renaming the others accordingly, and maybe changed a few other small details but kept the story content of the whole thing essentially the same, would it be truly new?
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Auxiliary Power Pools - levels 40 up -------cool
Kheldians - level 50--------------------------kinda cool
Council - all levels----------------------------so sad
Striga Isle - levels 20 - 30-------------------eh
Mission Customization - all levels-----------yawn
Global Chat - all levels----------------------worthless
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Oh okay. Thanks for letting us know, champ. Always good to know there's only One True Opinion around here.
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Consider that two then, because this pretty much sums it up for me as well. Some things States apparently forgot to mention though:
+1 Boss Bug- levels 1-25
Multiple +1 Boss Bug- levels 1-25
Missing Mob Bug- All Levels
If I find anymore of these delicious easter egss I will be sure to post them as well.
Have fun !
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That cuts both ways. I can no more presume that my opinion reflects that of the majority than you can presume it does not.
Or do you normally assume that every post is supposed to represent you as well? This may comes as a shock but they aren't all about you.
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The difference between you and I is that I would never consider posting something like "It is depressing that in each update the best things are the bug-fixes and UI improvements."
If I wanted to make a sweeping generalization of opinion like that, I'd at least label it as such.
I have never, EVER claimed that my opionions represent anything other than my opinions. I do not pretend to have a finger on the pulse of CoH nor do I speak for anyone other than myself.
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Combining the very informal "chan" suffix with the formal "desu"? 
Sikyanakotik has corrected your japanese grammar for 646.23 points of pedagogical damage.
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I heard people doing it all the time when I was over there.
*shrugs* Text books get ya nowhere!
BTW. Why are there no dentists in honolulu??
Ha wa ii!
*cough*
Just thought I'd chip in my 2 inf. here...
"Mission Customization" doesn't refer to the mission difficulty slider, but rather to the new mission art\graphics\etc. in certain missions.
Example: Lous Garage, mission in a low level clockwork arc, now *looks* like a garage.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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The difference between you and I is that I would never consider posting something like "It is depressing that in each update the best things are the bug-fixes and UI improvements."
If I wanted to make a sweeping generalization of opinion like that, I'd at least label it as such.
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Well apparently you don't actually have anything at all to post. Just attacks on others posts.
It isn't a sweeping generalization as that is how I feel about the updates. This is the official game forum. A place where I can express my opinions about the game and direction it is going. It doesn't matter if my opinion is that of the majority or not. I also don't have to qualify every post with a disclaimer that it is my opinion. I can express my likes and dislikes and intelligent readers will know that they are my opinions. The developers can take them into account or not. Entirely up to them. My praise to them comes in the form of my monthly subscription fee. As long as I continue to pay to play they can safely assume that I am content with it to that degree. Here on the forum however I will continue to post what I like and don't like as long as I do continue paying.
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What does Statesman mean by "Council"?
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Replacement villain group for 5th column.