Statesman: Please don't make this mistake
By
123456789,
Posted on: 2004-09-15 07:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I believe that Statesman has said in other threads that, along with an increase in difficulty, an increase in experience earned would come also. In other words, the devs aren't looking to slow the game down, just to bring the level of enemies to fight back into the 'white' range.
My EN/EN blaster is level 35, and he definitely spends the majority of his time soloing orange and red mobs.
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Right, but if you don't get any stronger at all, what's the point of even playing?
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You ARE getting stronger. Go back and fight those villians that kicked your *** 20 levels ago to see that. However, the enemies you're fighting get stronger, too. That doesn't nullify the fact that you're getting stronger, though. It just means you're taking on foes that you had no hope of beating 20 levels ago.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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In the case of making the higher level game more fun, I want to make the difficulty of the later levels resemble early gameplay. At first, some players will decry "but I can't do what I used to! Ack! I can't solo two +4 bosses anymore?" True - but they'll have fun battling 3 white minions - which is something you can say at level 15, but not at level 35. Long term, the entire game will sparkle once this sort of balance is restored - because so much of the game design hangs upon it.
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A couple points:
(1) I'm burning through levels with my fire/dev - I'd say from 18 to 40 in about 2 weeks playing an average of 2.5-3 hrs a day. I'm enjoying seeing the sights, getting a feel for higher level challenges, but I'm also looking forward to starting over. This game does NOT hinge on the idea of a single character going from 1-50 and then you quit.
(2) If I played a character that just did missions and fought whites right now, I think it's probable that in the early 30s I'd get irritated and quit. Especially if I didn't know that xp-per-level flattens out at 40.
If you're going to make advancement slower than it already is - which is plenty slow for "normal" characters - by making white cons even harder, then you better have something interesting to do.
Personally, I suggest loot. I will post it as a separate thread, but to sum up: diablo II style randomized enhancement drops, right down to "rares" and "uniques" - randomized many-property things (one might be 31% damage + 8% range + 11% end red), or a unique, say, "Backalley Brawler's Fury", that is +28% damage and +28% knockback.
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Well then REDUCE SO's % buff.
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Haha, why? So people can come here and complain about that "nerf" instead?
Come on, be reasonable. If they complain about this, they will definitely complain about that.
How about players just accept that the game is about to get a little more challenging? Strap in.
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Statesman, I agree totally that you need to adjust the game, sometimes significantly, to keep it fun long term.
The point I would like to add is to make sure that risk=reward always. At this time we could argue that risk is not very high, but at the same time advancement is also very slow lvl 40+.
So when you increase the difficulty of the higher end game please also adjust the reward so we still want to go out and take the greater risks.
If you just make it harder their will be the perception that the game is too hard for what you get. Since one of the major (some would argue the only) rewards you get in CoH is character development this could make matter worse instead of fix them.
The reality is the game released at one difficulty level. That difficulty level needs to be changed, but keep in mind the players fell in love with the game as it is today. Changes that only make the game harder may sour the relationship if not balanced with rewards.
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Well said Silentfury.
/e clap
I hope Statesman reads your post.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
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One quick question Statesman, what about the Defenders and Controllers that ALREADY have a hard time with mobs?
How would these changes affect them?
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This is a concern.
The other part of the fun equation is that you can level after 6-8 hours of play. Once you get into the higher levels, you have to fight the +2 mobs or you will take 15-20 hours or more to reach the next level.
Also, one of the strengths of this games is one of its weaknesses, the powers you get early continue to be the powers you use later. Getting extra powers is fun and learning to use them keeps things exciting. But there are points where the powers are just the same old same old. How many slows do I need? If I have 3 effective attacks that I can continuously cycle, why do I need another?
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#4 Statesman also said that soloing for ALL classes will remain an option.
Yes, but I shudder to think about the xp I would get off -1 and even con mobs in order to solo from 35-40. Solo'ing as an option is not the same thing as soloing as a viable means of advancing in the game.
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It depends on what you see as vialble.
If leveling is the only thing to play for then your right but I play for more then just the "ding".
Phosphorus
My concern:
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4. It's not fun to battle 3 white minions at 35. One of the BEST things about this game was, as it went on, you felt more powerful relative to the environment. This is different from most games where you become weaker later and MORE dependent on teams.
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Right. I had trouble with 3 white minions at level 5. At level 30, I blow my nose with em. I got more powerful, see? And while they certainly hit a lot harder, i actually 'feel' like a superhero, because my fights are more epic and i'm doing things that early on i wouldn't have dreamed of.
So if i'm going to be taking of 3 white minions for a challenge from 2-50...
Egads. That's just boring. Nevermind that my respec TF is swamped with oranges and grapes (mostly bosses) already.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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I believe that Statesman has said in other threads that, along with an increase in difficulty, an increase in experience earned would come also. In other words, the devs aren't looking to slow the game down, just to bring the level of enemies to fight back into the 'white' range.
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See thats the problem, I don't really have much faith that in this happening at an appropriate level. He'll cut the good builds to 1/10th the xp/hr then compensate by upping the xp of minions by 30% (leaving lt's/bosses alone). So minions will be 2x as hard to kill, lt's/bosses become much harder but worth no more xp, and all you get is a 1.3x for the minion kills.
This is far more likely to happen in a mmo and is what we're on the path to seeing. The reason I think this is likely is because we're already seeing lt's/bosses becoming more difficult in issue2 and there has been no increase in reward relative to them.
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One quick question Statesman, what about the Defenders and Controllers that ALREADY have a hard time with mobs?
How would these changes affect them?
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Although I have a lot of respect for Statesman and the development team, I have a feeling that controllers and defenders will once again fall to the wayside. I'm hoping I'm wrong and this will not turn into a vicious cycle. There are less than a handful of builds that can do what States described; solo large groups of reds and multiple purple easily.
Even with fully slotted SO's I can't take on more than one even level boss and a minion together, If I miss twice with an attack or they get a hit off of me I'm toast. Not to mention if my debuffs drop due to sleep, hold, stun etc. Pitiful hit points, pitiful damage output, high endurance cost (addressed in update 2) and increased enemy difficulty doesn't add up to more fun, it adds up to more debt.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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I was in beta for a few wekks before launch. Based on the time I could dedicate to playing, I just decided to try one AT and set about playing the game and filling out the feedback forms as they popped up and to watch out for any bugs. I played a Invul/SS tanker, which I got level 12 before the end of beta. I didnt get to participate in the artificial level boosts as I didnt request to be boosted cause they asked for experienced players to test the upper content.
I would read the beta boards daily and especially the balance issue forum. Now there were quite a few debates on what is too powerful or are things working as intended? One of the debates was "BURN". Most of the beta testers dont participate on this board no more I dont think, becuase of its nature. I dont see Havok or Jesad or Poison or Bugbite or any of those so recognizable names I use to see on the beta boards.
The game was released and I went into a trial and error of finding the AT that fits my style, my time, and my social patterns. I have 7 that I like and they could all have a good bio and theme if I worked at it. They are fun to play. At low levels. Within 2 weeks of release there was a group of players who reached the then max cap 40. TWO WEEKS. I think I was level 7 at that time 
Back then there wasnt the purple patch and certain mobs in areas were not attacking back Not sure who all exploited that or not. The Hammidon could easily be defeated back then too with 8 people.
Well then it was decided that some "adjustments" needed to be made. And it started with one power and then the next and then the next and then the next, and I dont think it will stop. Though its not mass nerfing across the board its just a slow domino effect. This Power is best so folks use it, okay now this is the bes power so we use it, okay now this, now this and so on. So now folks cant use certain powers to get by, they will have to combo it up or develop "strategy" according to some.
I have a level:
20 Ar/Dv Blaster
17 Ice/Storm Controller
17 Invul/War Mace Tanker
14 Claws/Dark Scrapper
12 Fire/Fire Tanker
08 Fire/Dv Blaster
08 Dark/Regen Scrapper
And since the start I must of tried about 12 other combos whom I have since deleted.
I play casually, most often I have to find a pcik up group which I loath cause folks going afk for this reason or that, plus they dont know how each other plays and you die quite a bit. I have a firned in Michigan I play with and she is a Vet to MMOs and we do well wehn grouped. My brother has played a few MMOs but he is too Kamakazee, he will take on too high of stuff and we die. He usually gets in pick up groups over lunch and sometimes I join and the stuff they try to do is just silly. Theres no way, okay if you want to try, gee we all died Going to have to street sweep a couple of hours to work this dbl death off I got within 20 seconds thanks to the Dark rezzor bringing me back in the middle of combat.
Hey that reminds me of EQ! A death and you setback a couple of hours for a few seconds!
Every time I hit a new level, I check the exp needed and what I get vs what mob and get out the calculator. Gee, this will only take 650 of these to get to next level
Okay, you're just suppose to "play" and not worry about leveling, enjoying the "content". Well I gave up on missions cause they were easy too easy or too hard and not worth the time invested vs the streets - and they werent all that interesting to follow. Some were, most werent.
Task Force missions? Never went on one. I switched to second shift and dont have the time to try and do one before work and other responsibilities, plus again, I dont trust pick up groups. So I could do them on the weekends but my brothers wife is around then and weekend play is out for him. So I could ditch em and just play without em.
So that leaves street sweeping. Which is the fastest way to level but the most boring. Leveling has alos gotten to be quite a time sink and I am only at 20. Yeah, I know, some of you are just so gifted at playing games the rest of us just suck and dont know how to play - funny though how you never post your characters and strategy and what you do. You just say we suck
Now I had alot of fun flying around the city, super leaping, super speed, and watching several of the other power effects and that the game was super heroes was a novel idea. But the game is not worth the investment for me now at this time. And I dont like the EQish style of play its taking on (must group/must fine certain powers/must min max). But its a business and things must change and we know that change wont suit everyone.
I think whatever this surprise event Statesman has announced is a step in the right direction. It should be interesting, though I wonder who will get to face whatever it is and who will have to run away! Though just seeing things is fun (end of beta Rikti Invasion).
Maybe someday the game will take another tuen back into a direction I like. The game will constantly change. With Issue 2 coming up, about the only thing I see for me if I renewed is to get a cape
For me there is not enough adventure. If I wrote a comic about my characters it would be pretty boring. On this page I swatted 12 Hellions, next page I swatted 12 Skulls, next page 8 Lost, next page 12 Hellions, next page 15 Skulls - wash rinse repeat.
So they are making the game more challenging. Okay lets go back to previous MMOs we played and what happens when something gets jacked up. We go to where we can "do something". We will aviod the posionous snakes and the clerics who can cast root and death spells and go find the less rsiky wolves for the same exp.
People will stop playing when they cant do anything anymore. Sure sure, every class can solo, but some at a PAINSTAKING pace. Would you pay to do this or go buy something else for you time and money?
After I cancelled, my brother and friend followed suit. We just want a game where we can hang around in. And we will find one we enjoy until it gets tedious. Where "in order to play" is more annoying than just be able to play.
Its a MMO, its a good one, it will have its FAN base like all MMOs and the DEVs will reward that fan base for thier dedication with the things (style of play) they like.
The DEVs here responded and treated its players very well. Customer service was better than any I have seen, but the game just doesnt fit my style of play anymore, and thats okay. The world will still spin.
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The fact you can still post shows you have an active account.
Nice attempt at a pretty story tho!
I think Statesman is absolutely right.
My entire SG is bored to death with missions post 30. In fact, most of my group doesnt' even bother playing their 30+ characters any more. When we play at all, we play alternate heroes level 1-20.
The reason is that the post 20 game is BOOORING.
1) Missions are WAY too easy. A level 6 hero going into a mission and fighting 3 even-cons is fun, because the hero actually has to work at it. And when the battle is over, he will often have to take a break and heal because he took SOME damage. Post 20 this hardly ever happens. Post 30 it's a joke. My team and I tear through mission without ever even encounting a challenging fight any more.
2) Missions yield too little XP. Can't wait for Update 2 to fix this!
3) Street sweeping is INCREDIBLY BORING! Sure, you can find and fight orange, red, and even purple mobs on the streets and rake in XP, but I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want to. If I want to do tedious, repetitive, mind-numbing, thoughless tasks, I'll go to WORK!
I absolutely agree with States that something must be done to re-balance the mobs post 20. The thing that scares me the most is that the change won't be made until Update 3. That is just WAY too long a wait. What am I supposed to do for the next 3 months? Keep playing alts? (yawn)
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Broken may equal fun to players who get the vastly overpowered skill (smoke grenade) or find the levelling loopholes, but fixing it isn't a nerf no matter how you break it down.
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That's true. Fixing something clearly broken (infinite stacking of smoke grenade or whatever) or ending an unforseen loophole is not a nerf.
A nerf is when, say, EQ lowers the top end necromancer pet by 7 levels because it, alone, was about as tough as an equivalent-level, well-armored warrior. They could have toughened the warrior, or the quality of the armor or weapons (boosting a class) but no, they nerfed another class.
Don't confuse the two. Yes, it can be painful to see a bug repaired or a loophole closed. But that's not really that bad since you understand it is something that should be done.
There have been nerfs -- the Purple Patch is one, from the descriptions I've heard. (Ironically, EQ also had a similar nerf patch limiting the level to +6 that you could "stick" a spell on.) There's really no reason a ball of flame shouldn't burn a +20 level, but otherwise normal human, just as much as it does an even one. You don't "dodge" an all-encompassing ball of flame that fills the entire space. You don't "dodge" a lightning bolt that has found your body.
But it gets done for balance reasons, or to slow things down. These are nerfings, the true nerfings.
"Hey! You knocked generic cola all over your precious D20 books!"
ED: Now I know how Nancy Kerrigan felt: "Why...?!? Why...?!?"
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I believe that Statesman has said in other threads that, along with an increase in difficulty, an increase in experience earned would come also. In other words, the devs aren't looking to slow the game down, just to bring the level of enemies to fight back into the 'white' range.
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See thats the problem, I don't really have much faith that in this happening at an appropriate level. He'll cut the good builds to 1/10th the xp/hr then compensate by upping the xp of minions by 30% (leaving lt's/bosses alone). So minions will be 2x as hard to kill, lt's/bosses become much harder but worth no more xp, and all you get is a 1.3x for the minion kills.
This is far more likely to happen in a mmo and is what we're on the path to seeing.
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I have a number of problems with the proposed changes (although I see some good points with it too). But I'd like to see people stop assuming that the Devs will incorrectly give XP out. I mean, maybe they'll screw it up and give too much/too little. But I'd rather people not base their entire argument against the changes on the basis of:
"OMG if 3 white minions are the same difficulty as 3 orange ones are now then I'll never level!!!!"
I'd assume that simple numbers like XP reward are going to get the right change.
Concentrate on the harder to change problems/benefits from it, where effects aren't obvious. XP for a single minion vs. difficulty (especially compared to existing enemies) is one of the easiest things to get right... assumes the Devs will get that one right instead of being all Chicken Little about it. 
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Well then REDUCE SO's % buff.
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Haha, why? So people can come here and complain about that "nerf" instead?
Come on, be reasonable. If they complain about this, they will definitely complain about that.
How about players just accept that the game is about to get a little more challenging? Strap in.
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Is the game about to become more challenging, or is it just giong to slow down advancement by having to take on 3 +1's at a time vs groups of 8-10 +2 minions. If the xp earned over the time to take down the 3 +1's, is equal to the xp earned over the time it takes currently to take down the 8-10 +2's, then I am fine with this readjustment.
If not and I earned only a fraction of the xp for the time put in and risk taken, it will slow advancement down, which hurts my gameplay experience. We will have to see what effect this has when it is implemented. And no whining, if it is not as fun, many will simply quietly find something else to do with their time. I enjoy the game now and hope that continues
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I also have to laugh every time I see someone complain about 'nerfs'. Exactly what have they nerfed? Smoke Grenade? Sorry, that wasn't nerfed, it was merely fixed to work the way that the devs designed/wanted it to work in the first place. By far, whenever they've made balance changes, they haven't nerfed anyone/anything. Instead, they've mainly given boosts to those areas that they feel need the most work. Not weakened others. This is one of the things that I love about this game. That the devs fix what's broken instead of bringing everything else down to balance with it. To be honest, usually when someone's whining about nerfs, they're mainly just whining because their AT isn't getting boosted while other aspects of the game are fixed or brought up into line with how they should be.
So instead of whining because your AT/Powers aren't getting boosted, why don't you just let the Devs fix and resolve any issues/bugs that are brought to their attention. Just because you may not see any problems, it doesn't mean that they aren't out there.
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There was no mention of any specific nerf, or anything that I necessairly want boosted on my toons.
I was actually pretty happy with all my Hero's except my mind controller (they're kinda sucky).
What I don't want to see is progress soooo slow because we're "supposed" to be killing whites and things will be changed until that vision is met.
I've been attacked a lot in this thread, people assuming that cause my main was ar/dev blaster (rolled first week, liked the concept) that must be the reason -- truth is, its the 30s grind that makes me not want to play him. I see rolling back the purple patch as the key to making it more fun. The devs see forcing groups of 8 to hunt +4s as the answer (which of course would provide half the advancement rate for toons).
Well whatever
Kruschev
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My god...do people even listen when Statesman talks? Sometimes it looks like the devs might be better off talking to a brick wall because it would be more responsive.
Check the Dev Tracker dude and read statesman's responses to the "find a group" thread.
If you're fighting handfulls of whites with buddies, and not getting anywhere...
...go to a zone that has more whites! That's what the trial and hazard zones were MADE FOR! If it's going slow, bump up the mob level a tad and pull larger/more groups at a time! If you can take them on, do it! He SPECIFICALLY stated that risk = reward.
Let me explain this to you...
If you can mop up four large groups of mobs at once in...oh say...faultline, don't pull a single group at a time. Pull 4 and move on. The 4 groups you wiped out WILL respawn (the faster you beat them the faster they spawn...this isn't EQ where everything's on a friggin timer and crouds can "out-hunt" a zone...) and you'll make more xp because you're "arresting" more baddies in less time. If you're not pushing yourself (iow...it's not challenging) you won't get much xp for your troubles (which aren't very troubling anyway considering you're not pushing any kind of limit except for how board you can get before comming here and [censored] and moaning that you can't rack up 1000 xp for killing a single mob that should spank you and your entire group anyway)
Face it. The purple patch isn't going anywhere, nor should it. Think "quantity" rather than "level" and you'll solve most of your "xp is slow" problem.
Think more like a FFXI player, and you'll group better. If you want to rake in the xp, get a good group, head to the nearest trial zone, and stagger 2 pullers at once. If you're not fighting, you're not xping. Like has been said by both me and those in charge, "beat MORE enemies, not BIGGER enemies."
The devs have a vision for this game and you're just going to have to live with the fact that this game is built on THEIR vision, and not yours. This is not another EQ (thank god), which means that if you were expecting one, you're going to have to adapt because you're not getting one. CoH is wildly successful, and it's not because of "smoke grenade." Compared to some other games on the market, we've got a good group of devs who know what they're doing, know what they want, and know how to get there. Face it. This isn't YOUR game, it's theirs.
You just pay to play.
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I don't think that game would be as much FUN as the one I got at release.
It might be better to set ego aside, look at how your players WANT to play the game (not at how YOU want them to play it), and build content/design around that.
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Okay, my laughter died down so I could read on, and then started back up right here!
So, YOU don't think that game would be as much fun as the one YOU got at release, and Statesman should change the way he's doing things because of this?
And then you have the nerve to say "set ego aside." Hahaha. Take your own [censored] advice dude. Plenty of players are perfectly happy to conform to the developers vision and intentions for the game. If we didn't trust them to know how to make a good game, we wouldn't be paying the $15 a month to play it.
What makes you think what YOU want is magically what the "players" want? Every player wants something slightly different. That's why it's imperative that the developers maintain their OWN vision and intent. Otherwise it will end up a soupy mess of "trying to please everyone."
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Exactly why I never start a thread on these forums. No one is entitled to his or her opinion here, it seems.
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One quick question Statesman, what about the Defenders and Controllers that ALREADY have a hard time with mobs?
How would these changes affect them?
[/ QUOTE ] as a stormie/electricty defender i find soloing is easy
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I think you should look at what you are soloing, I'm sure you can't solo an entire mob of yellows, reds or purples. There's a big difference. I'm a rad/rad defender I can honestly only solo a group of 4 whites max, three whites and a yellow or one purple and one white. Anything else and it won't be pretty, if my toggles drop I'm on the next bed in the ER. But I find that exceptable soloing, the way it is now. Any increase in difficulty for most defenders/controllers will be bad. "Get a team" someone will say, I say that's fine but fix group XP.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Sorry, Statesman,
But it sounds to me like your vision of things, and making a fight with 3 White Con Minions as fun/difficult/exciting at lv
35 as it was at lv 15, will make it so that I'll never have the oppurtunity to feel more powerful as I grow/level.
Why do I want to keep playing if I'm no more effective at lv 35 than I am at lv 15?
Everyone plays for different reasons and looks forward to different things; I understand that. I understand you need to
cater to the majority and not to my single insignificant whine... but I'm throwing in my 2 influence anyway
I, personally, was looking forward to becoming more powerful, to being able to take on harder and harder mobs, (up to a point of course), as I leveled and gained power. That was my concept of my character... that he got more POWERFUL as he grew... not just got more powers.
Now you're telling me that at lv 35, other than having a few new powers to play with, I won't be any more "powerful" than I was at 15 and that I'll basically STILL be fighting only 3 White Con Minions at a shot?
This issue pertains to being in a group or solo actually. Once we're all less effective, less powerful, solo... our group strength is also reduced. Whatever your 8 man group was fighting at lv 15... it will STILL be fighting at lv 35; from a "con" standpoint I mean.
Heck even in DAoC, (A game that pales in comparison to CoH I might add, so kudos to you and your team on that.), you could fight higher level mobs as you advanced, got better gear, and increased your skills. EQ of course you go backwards and fight lower and lower level mobs, LOL.
I guess I just don't see an incentive to keep playing if I won't in fact EVER become "powerful" but merely the same at 35 as
I am at 15... just with some different sparkly fluff.
<shrugs> Like most I'll wait and see what happens I guess.
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Human nature often demands immediate gratification. Sometimes, this comes into conflict with the long term enjoyment.
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We play the game for the enjoyment it gives us the moment we sit down. You are missing the point, this is not about life style, it is a game and is should bring instant gratification, that was the single biggest thing that attracted me to this MMP, I had hope for reaching upper levels if I played my cards right. ie: Gratification that did not take two years of play=boring and good for hardcore people that WILL move to difft games with crafting etc someday anyhow.
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Case in point: much of our zone distribution, spawn placement and mission difficulty is based on a simple supposition. Players should be entertained/challenged by mobs -2 to +2 levels different. A single +2 minion should be REALLY hard - a single -2 minion should be pretty easy. But that's the range that much of the game hangs on. And that works great for levels 1 to 20, in my opinion.
Starting at level 22, when players get S.O. Enhancements, they quickly outstrip their foes. The missions cease to be entertaining, because a +1 mobs are just too easy. Better XP can be found by taking on +4 mobs in zones. Single characters can take on spawns that are intended for many heroes. And there's no place for a maximum sized group to go in order to find a tough and rewarding battle.
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Yes but at low levels we might need 1500 XP to level, now I need over a million. If the XP drops it will take me weeks between levels, if that happens you will keep the hardcore MMP people for a while, but folks like me with families etc, will leave and try other games etc. I will have to, I like the leveling etc of MMP's but can't lose my life over it. So, I cant play 90 hours a week, but would like the chance to make 50 sometime within a year. Make the reward for Uber players the opp to start over again with a unique class only available to people who hit the cap, I read that somewhere and I think it is a neat idea.
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In the case of making the higher level game more fun, I want to make the difficulty of the later levels resemble early gameplay. At first, some players will decry "but I can't do what I used to! Ack! I can't solo two +4 bosses anymore?" True - but they'll have fun battling 3 white minions - which is something you can say at level 15, but not at level 35. Long term, the entire game will sparkle once this sort of balance is restored - because so much of the game design hangs upon it.
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Sadly you dont seem to realize that the number (XP) associated with a kill is what determines what people will kill, fun in the fight is great, but a feeling of accomplishment and reward is also important. Most of my friends have told me that the game gets more fun in the 40's, now it will take us forever to get there. Again, you will lose a large group of people who are into this game precisely because it was less of a grind to lvl. Your game was different, yes easier, but so what, it was and is FUN!
I fear that me getting my next level with the new purp patch will really be a bummer and a huge grind, remember people will grind and you are making it significantly harder for all. At the end of the day, we all know that progressing in levels is a big part of the fun in an MMP. Guess what? It is not easy today, as you raise in levels you ought to feel more powerful and be able to hit mobs further an further above your level, that was a good feeling for me. I felt much tougher, it should not be the same game at level 5 that it is at level 35 or 45.
My .02 cents. This whole thing, all the nerfs, dropping XP capabilities bums me out and I fear this game will start to look like all the others, except with SkyScrapers, capes and flyers. I started to read about the new Guild Wars, Matrix and WoW games ever since I saw all this stuff coming, I was not even considering those games until I heard about all the nerfs and changes.
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See thats the problem, I don't really have much faith that in this happening at an appropriate level.
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Who can blame you? I mean, with all the experience we have with Cryptic releasing content updates for this game, I don't think anyone has faith in them knowing how to adjust their game properly.
Oh... wait, that's right, there have been no major content updates. So, what's your lack of faith based on, besides your desire to have something to complain about?
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He'll cut the good builds to 1/10th the xp/hr then compensate by upping the xp of minions by 30%
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Aww, cute. Thanks for the totally baseless, almost certainly wrong assumptions with numbers you pulled from deep within the recesses of your turd factory.
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This is far more likely to happen in a mmo
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Haha. Yes, based on all the other Super Hero MMOs from Cryptic Studios, I think it's safe to make this assumption.
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and is what we're on the path to seeing.
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Yes, it's easy to say we're "on the path" once you make a string of arbitrary assumptions to get us there.
How about instead of making these completely random assumptions, we wait and see how he ACTUALLY fixes the issue and then critique the result?
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True - but they'll have fun battling 3 white minions - which is something you can say at level 15, but not at level 35. Long term, the entire game will sparkle once this sort of balance is restored - because so much of the game design hangs upon it.
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Yeah, and at only 50+ hours to reach a new level, and only 3 levels to reach a new power, and only 5 levels to get new story arcs.... boy, this game is getting casual friendly!
I seriously hope an exp re-tuning comes with this. Most people I have talked with enjoy having multiple heroes they play. Let the hardcore have a few medium-high level heroes, let the casual have 1. Instead it seems like this is putting people doing the same content with the same character for months. Forcing people to grind even more on one character to see new things and have different powers...
Were people leaving too quickly once they reached the level cap? You said you were comfortable with people's rates of advancement. Why are we seeing so many player nerfs and enemy boosts to slow things down?
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1) Missions are WAY too easy. A level 6 hero going into a mission and fighting 3 even-cons is fun, because the hero actually has to work at it. And when the battle is over, he will often have to take a break and heal because he took SOME damage. Post 20 this hardly ever happens. Post 30 it's a joke. My team and I tear through mission without ever even encounting a challenging fight any more.
2) Missions yield too little XP. Can't wait for Update 2 to fix this!
3) Street sweeping is INCREDIBLY BORING! Sure, you can find and fight orange, red, and even purple mobs on the streets and rake in XP, but I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want to. If I want to do tedious, repetitive, mind-numbing, thoughless tasks, I'll go to WORK!
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1. Mission difficulty needs addressed - but not by lowering hero's, but by raising the bar on the missions. Allow 2 sliders on the bar where you get to pick A) Size of mob spawns, from 1 to 15ish and B) Level of mobs that spawn, from -1 to +4 (or if they'll give up the purple patch, +8.. hehe in my dreams).
2. Part of the reason missions give too little XP is #1, the other part is being addressed. On a side note, raising the difficulty of the mission should give a multiplier bonus on the reward xp. *HINT HINT*
3. Street sweeping is boring because that is the only efficient way to get xp. When missions are viable, it can be a nice change of pace. Anything done ad infinim will get tedious.
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In the case of making the higher level game more fun, I want to make the difficulty of the later levels resemble early gameplay. At first, some players will decry "but I can't do what I used to! Ack! I can't solo two +4 bosses anymore?" True - but they'll have fun battling 3 white minions - which is something you can say at level 15, but not at level 35. Long term, the entire game will sparkle once this sort of balance is restored - because so much of the game design hangs upon it.
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Someone already mentioned it but I want to reinforce it. There are indeed builds of every archetype that can solo. But the vast majority of builds for controllers can not solo effectively past level 12. It is NOT worth spending six times the gameplay to gain the same amount of skill as every other AT. There are even some builds that can not solo period. An Ice/Storm controller for example can not take a group of 3 grays.
It would be helpful if you would quit touting that any AT can solo and be upfront and honest at character creation time, warning people that this build will not be able to function outside of the team environment.
Now with all that being said it is also extremely dangerous for these characters to even try to cross a zone set for thier level because there are so many things that can one or two hit kill them.
My concern is that you will make it even more impossible to play these characters because they can't survive. I'm just asking you to be careful in ramping up the difficulty of higher level spawns. Don't have a knee jerk reaction because some ATs are cakewalking high level spawns.
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history--with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. -Mitch Ratliffe, Technology Review, April, 1992