Harwin

Umm, how does it affect Fortitude in any way? Empaths have *no* natural toggles (unless one of the secondaries has one). I can see how it hurts leadership and pool buffs, but it works fine within it's own set.

It works fine in emergencies. I pop a discipline, and then cast it. I don't mind having to use an inspiration for emergencies. Emergencies aren't the problem.

Tough fights aren't the problem. I don't mind waiting 20 seconds before a tough fight to cure my stun.

It's only in regular run-of-the-mill encounters that I don't use it that much. But then, how often do you use Unstoppable or Moment of Glory or Novas? I feel like my AB has roughly an equivalent drawback to my Blackstar, so I don't think a one-slotted AB has big problems.

That said, I'm not slotting it up much any time soon. It works now because I use it infrequently. It could probably take a 2nd recharge (to go with my perma-hasten), just so it's more typically ready when someone Novas... but I'd still have to have someone else in the party to use it.

And most other defenders/controllers don't seem to do a good job of keeping me mez. free. FF, Kin, and Storm can all cure my disorient, but I only tend to use it a lot when I'm with an FF, and can just follow him or her around after using it. But that's not the power's fault.

I think this power is roughly ok the way it is. It's not fantastically amazing, but it's a decent power.

-----------------
Virtue:
Bedside Manner - 39 emp/dark

I don't think the rogue robots is *supposed* to give you a badge. And I know it doesn't give a souvenir (it's not a story arc, it's a multi-part mission)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An interesting straw man, here. It ISN'T the same three mininons. They're level 50 - not level 10 minions. Different art, different powers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, gotta say that response really disappoints me, Jack. They really ARE the very same minions. They are just dressed up in different clothing and have a few different powers. You might see them as very very different. But, many of us see them as just the same minion.

Frankly, as you progress, the game should change. It should not be the same old stuff. Fighting 3 equal minions as balance my whole career as a crime fighter is not very comic book like. Minions tend to be less and less competative to the superhero as they progress along the power path in comics.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this point... but...

[ QUOTE ]

I guess what makes your stand the hardest sell with me is the design of the respec trials. They are absolutely anything but "3 equal" minions a hero. Heck, there are times they border on 3 red or purple BOSSES a hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with you here. The goal of the respec trials is to be hard. As much as 3 minions = 1 hero is a long-term goal, it isn't the case right now. So they've made it hard relative to the current way the game works. I assume that a lot of the balance on the trials right now assumes that you're fighting at current difficulty levels, and that if they make it more challenging, they'll adjust the trials so they stay challenging, instead of changing to impossible.

[ QUOTE ]

First of all given the previous comments that they are happy with the rate at which people are advancing I thing it’s a given that the rewards will increase as well. If you don’t consider a -2 “worthless” now it is unlikely that you will consider a -4 worthless under the changes he is looking at.


[/ QUOTE ]

That depends greatly on the *type* of change. A -2 isn't "worthless" now because I can kill it nearly instantly and move on. If a -4 will be the exact same (or easier) difficulty and the exact same (or greater) xp as a -2 is now, then yes.

[ QUOTE ]

Think more in terms of shifting the whole difficulty scale by 3-4 levels. If you are happy going after -1 level mobs (at level 30) then you would be able to go after -5 level mobs for the same difficulty and reward afterwards. If you consider +4 the norm you get the same results by going after +0 which in turn still leaves lots of room for teams to go after +1 to +5, though, as he indicates 8 person teams may still need to search out places where the spawns are very large to take suitable risks and get suitable rewards.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. I hadn't thought that part through enough apparently. I mean, there's still the potential that things *won't* work out that well, but I might as well hope for the best when that hope isn't inconsistent with the statements they make.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that Statesman has said in other threads that, along with an increase in difficulty, an increase in experience earned would come also. In other words, the devs aren't looking to slow the game down, just to bring the level of enemies to fight back into the 'white' range.


[/ QUOTE ]

See thats the problem, I don't really have much faith that in this happening at an appropriate level. He'll cut the good builds to 1/10th the xp/hr then compensate by upping the xp of minions by 30% (leaving lt's/bosses alone). So minions will be 2x as hard to kill, lt's/bosses become much harder but worth no more xp, and all you get is a 1.3x for the minion kills.

This is far more likely to happen in a mmo and is what we're on the path to seeing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a number of problems with the proposed changes (although I see some good points with it too). But I'd like to see people stop assuming that the Devs will incorrectly give XP out. I mean, maybe they'll screw it up and give too much/too little. But I'd rather people not base their entire argument against the changes on the basis of:
"OMG if 3 white minions are the same difficulty as 3 orange ones are now then I'll never level!!!!"
I'd assume that simple numbers like XP reward are going to get the right change.

Concentrate on the harder to change problems/benefits from it, where effects aren't obvious. XP for a single minion vs. difficulty (especially compared to existing enemies) is one of the easiest things to get right... assumes the Devs will get that one right instead of being all Chicken Little about it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The numbers I have seen in an 4 person group that fights together is about 70k but less risk.

If I have a full 8 people in the group I am lucky if I can see 50k/hour.



[/ QUOTE ]

You still don’t get what he was telling you. Your 4 person balanced team was fighting mobs intended balanced teams of 8 a level or two higher then you. This leaves no place for that team of 8 to hunt.

What he intends to do is make everything more difficult after level 22 so that you 4 player team can’t take down those mobs and needs to find smaller spawns of lower level mobs. You now have plenty of headroom to form a team of 8 and take on those more difficult spawns and get more total xp to divide among your team member. If done correctly, this, along with the group xp bonus will increase the xp of participating in a larger group past that of a smaller group provided you hunt in zones where the spawn size is appropriate.

If executed properly his solution will work and is IMO superior to any other option. The only thing it is lacking is a way to deal with the fact that larger teams almost always have some sidekicks that can’t enter the hazard or trial zones where the right spawns are found.

[/ QUOTE ]

I partly agree and partly disagree. Lets suppose that the entire world is single-target attacks(and holds etc). And everyone is the same AT. Given that, Statesman's solution almost fixes it.

Basically, think of +2 after his change as being what +4 is currently (XP, difficulty, etc. I'm assuming XP here). In that case, the change still has the following negative effect:
Harder to find appropriate enemies to hunt. Why? Because right now my level 32 blaster can get some return for everything from -2 to +4 (-2 isn't much *per* but the fights are at least very quick) That's a far amount of spawns that I can tackle, without much time looking for just the *right* one. Cut that range in half, from -1 to +2, and even though the XP is the same for the mobs I *do* fight, it is harder to find them.

Throw in the fact that groups are NOT the same level (Statesman, the telling quote you have here is "a group of 38s". My 37 emp has never teamed with a group of 37s. I team with (without sidekicking) as low as 33s or as high as 41s. If you compress the level range, suddenly that's 35s to 39s, making it harder to find groups. And since currently 33s can't contribute much to fighting things my level +1 (nor can I contribute that much to fighting 42s), the effective current range is really more like 35-39. Compress that in half and you have 36-38. Not easy to find a good team that way. And *really* hard to keep friends in that level range, except for things like my dedicated group of RL friends who have a specific character just for the group at a set time/day.
So it will make it harder to find appropriate things to fight, even if those appropriate things pay off the same as the current "appropriate" enemies.

Now, this *might* actually not be harmed by Statesman's changes. Suppose the "purple patch" stays exactly as-is (+5s are too tough to fight). But +4s are worth as much XP as +8s currently would be worth (and as hard etc). Now you've actually gotten rid of the purple patch, effectively. Yay! (Of course I'm not sure how you change these things without causing the level spread problem)

However! This assumes you're not talking about AoE effects. People have a *lot* more AoE effects. And I'm not just talking about blasters. I love my Tenebrous Tentacles/Dark Pit, precisely because I can hit a large group of minions with them. If I'm not supposed to be able to fight > 3 white minions, then you need to stop me from mass disorienting/immobilizing them. But if you do that, you make some of these powers worthless. A low damage AoE at least, still makes *some* progress towards finishing off the mob. But a super-short disorient (Especially one that only hits minions) doesn't do me much good at all. I'm just not confident that you can restrict us to fighting only 3 even-level minions without completely nerfing AoE holds.


Summary:
Potential Upsides:
1. Effective removal of "purple patch"
2. Missions provide better XP because you will now *want* to fight things at your level, and that's what missions provide.

Potential Downsides:
1. Harder to find groups, since they have to be closer in level(only so much SKing you can do)
2. Harder to street sweep (harder to find appropriate mobs, sidekicks can't get into hazard/trial zones) (But remember, most people, myself included, play missions. So this isn't that big a downside to most of us).


(Oh, and for all of you who say that "4 is the obvious team magic number". I disagree. I mean, maybe it is, but it is far from obvious. I find 6 to be the magic number, at least for missions, because it raises all the missions spawns +1 level. I will always try to keep a team at 6, maybe 7 (to have a buffer against falling below 6))