Statesman: Please don't make this mistake

To me it's just a waste of a bunch of content if yellows and below are meaningless. A purple should be a challenge, not just the mark of a good target.

That way a tight group of 8 would be needed to fight mobs of +4.

Then we could add a button so that players could level up whenever they wanted. Hey, I'm bored. Boomp, I'm up a level.
I wonder how long people would hang around if that button was in place. It might be fun for a few weeks, but would it have long term appeal?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It might be better to set ego aside, look at how your players WANT to play the game (not at how YOU want them to play it), and build content/design around that.


[/ QUOTE ]
Says a */dev blaster whose wittle smoke gwenade is now no longer "broken". Need I say anything else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah.. if you actually read the thread... that has very little to do with anything.

The nerfs, while I'm generally against nerfing anything thats not game breaking (I certainly never tanked a +4 freakshow tanker with SG, and frequently died to +3 ones I was trying to kite), will come around to everyones AT once they get rolling. It was kinda funny how fast that Illusion/Fire controllers who called for SG nerf got theirs, and it will come for Spines/Invul/Regen scrappers as well.

[ QUOTE ]
My summary: Feel free to critique the game and offer suggestions and advice, but don't ask the authors of this work to make changes in order to generate more income or to fit the game to your desires or even the desires of the majority. It's their work, let them write it how they want. If you aren't enjoying it, then find something that you do enjoy. As someone else mentioned, there's plenty of MMO's out there to choose from.


[/ QUOTE ]

The most appropriate comment in the whole damn thread. To kinda take Icarus's side on this, we ALL have a vision of the perfect game...but it's the perfect game only to us. Sh*t if I had my way I'd fight 5th Column all day, everyday...If I had my way this game would NOT have a "T" for "Teen" rating you can be sure...not many people would dig that.

You = Statesmen

So… here’s my point:
If you plan to nerf AOE’s (again unsure how,) Make +30 harder (in effort to force grouping,) and make it where Hero vs. Villain ratio is 1->3. I would strongly request that you UP XP SIGNIFCANTLY!!! Near 130% of what is given now. This may sound unreasonable, but honestly it’s only fair. You have repeatedly said you don’t force us to group, but maybe we should clarify what force means. I mean if it takes me 8 to 10x the amount of time to solo than group… your forcing me to group. I don’t solo all the time, but I would like it to be feasible.

Read More Here!
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1334294

[ QUOTE ]
When making a game a developer will soon realize their vision of a game might not always be in line with the will of the players. A good developer will realize that it may be neccessary to sacrifice parts of that vision to keep the game in line with what the players have decided their vision of the game is. Developers who do not follow this path are ultimately going to turn away their own players and damage the game for everyone, developer and gamer alike, with the changes that follow in their attempt to force people to play as they had originaly invisioned so long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

5 stars. There MUST be a blend of Vision v.s. Balance v.s. Fun v.s. MONEY.

[ QUOTE ]
My summary: Feel free to critique the game and offer suggestions and advice, but don't ask the authors of this work to make changes in order to generate more income or to fit the game to your desires or even the desires of the majority. It's their work, let them write it how they want. If you aren't enjoying it, then find something that you do enjoy. As someone else mentioned, there's plenty of MMO's out there to choose from.

- Pan

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I ended up in CoH to begin with. I found a game, liked it, then devs decided how the majority of their high level players were playing it wasn't desireable and changed or didn't change things that really needed it.

So I cancelled it, and came here after my friends told me how great & fun CoH was. I in turn, have brought 3-4 other accounts to the game solely on my word that it was fun.

Now I see it happening all over again.

I don't really care if my exact vision (we all sort of have one) is implemented.

I do care about the general direction the game is going (which is much slower leveling, more dependent grouping, castrated solo'ing compared to what I could do before). I'd rather see a team of 8s fighting +6-7 mobs and being rewarded with great xp for doing it.

How many of you truly want to travel on the street to your contact, then in a group to the mission? How many of you consider taking 3 whites to be the minimum baseline for any build to be able to solo, and a well built char/at could do more?

I know they've done extremely well so far, 200kish subscribers - I think that the dev team has done a wonderful job keeping in touch with the playerbase and being honest, it's refreshing to see it after AO.

I'd hate to see that 200k shrink to 150k simply because they're unwilling to let well enough alone about general game dynamics that really clicked with the playerbase.

Kruschev

[ QUOTE ]
When making a game a developer will soon realize their vision of a game might not always be in line with the will of the players. A good developer will realize that it may be neccessary to sacrifice parts of that vision to keep the game in line with what the players have decided their vision of the game is. Developers who do not follow this path are ultimately going to turn away their own players and damage the game for everyone, developer and gamer alike, with the changes that follow in their attempt to force people to play as they had originaly invisioned so long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I can't say it better than this

[ QUOTE ]
will come around to everyones AT once they get rolling. It was kinda funny how fast that Illusion/Fire controllers who called for SG nerf got theirs, and it will come for Spines/Invul/Regen scrappers as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* So difficult to have a discussion with anyone whose perspective is so distorted.

The developers are working on their game. They are making adjustments. This entire "nerf war" of players "getting theirs" and "calling for others" and the developers in their Ivory Towers actually paying attention to the whole ordeal, listening to people's complaints and "nerfing" based on the rants of a few whiners on the message boards is a total fabrication. It's an invention of your paranoid mind. It's tripe. Hogwash. It doesn't exist. It's spam to fill these rants on the forums. It's FICTIONAL.

Power adjustments will happen. Sometimes it will be ones certain players have asked for. The events are mutually exclusive. The developers are not standing up there saying "You get yours, muahahaha. Now you get yours! Hahaha. Nerf them all! Dooooooooom!"

The developers want the game to be fun and challenging. They want it to be fair and balanced. This will involved adjustments to powers. That is an absolute inevitability. Accept it. Play and enjoy the game for what it is and what the developers will make it. Or don't. But, please, please, for the sake of us all and in the interests of ever having a rational discussion on these boards, let go of the "you called for nerfs and so the developers did it, then you got yours serves you right," etc. crap. It's really tiresome.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When making a game a developer will soon realize their vision of a game might not always be in line with the will of the players. A good developer will realize that it may be neccessary to sacrifice parts of that vision to keep the game in line with what the players have decided their vision of the game is. Developers who do not follow this path are ultimately going to turn away their own players and damage the game for everyone, developer and gamer alike, with the changes that follow in their attempt to force people to play as they had originaly invisioned so long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

5 stars. There MUST be a blend of Vision v.s. Balance v.s. Fun v.s. MONEY.

[/ QUOTE ]


I disagree. A good developer won't be afraid to buck trends, metrics, or marketers. A good developer creates trends, new metrics, and markets.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been attacked a lot in this thread, people assuming that cause my main was ar/dev blaster (rolled first week, liked the concept) that must be the reason -- truth is, its the 30s grind that makes me not want to play him. I see rolling back the purple patch as the key to making it more fun. The devs see forcing groups of 8 to hunt +4s as the answer (which of course would provide half the advancement rate for toons).

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're upset that you can't take a villian 4+ levels higher than you by yourself? You may be missing one of the points of the game. It's genre is a sort of 'comic book super heroes'. We SHOULDN'T be able to readily solo mobs much higher than our own level. The colors are only a gage of how they compare to us, not of how truely powerful they are. Two different characters may see mobs in different colors depending on their build. That said, I'm also sure that none of us would like to see things function as they would in a comic story arc, where we HAVE to get beaten by the more powerful opponent before we can come back and be victorious at the end of the 3 issue story arc that many formula superhero comics follow.

Let's not take for granted what we have, and assume that we should be bigger than we are. Levels are important for a reason. It's already generous for many of us to be able to take on multiple mobs of the SAME level, as they should be guides and gages. But to complain that you have a hard time with a higher level, more powerful mob? That's the way it's supposed to be. They're higher level. Live with it. Deal with it. In the comics, you always see heroes teaming up with one another to take out more powerful opponents. That's the whole point of teaming up and forming super groups. The Thing can't take Dr Doom by himself. None of the X-Men can take Apocalypse or Magneto by themselves. So they form teams.

Fighting crime solo against 'lesser' criminals is one thing, but teaming up to bring down the truely evil, more powerful bad guys is what the super hero comic genre is all about. And before you start mentioning heros like Superman, Batman, etc., they're uniquely powerful heroes. But even they had to form a team, The Justice League, in order to stop some villians.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
will come around to everyones AT once they get rolling. It was kinda funny how fast that Illusion/Fire controllers who called for SG nerf got theirs, and it will come for Spines/Invul/Regen scrappers as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* So difficult to have a discussion with anyone whose perspective is so distorted.

The developers are working on their game. They are making adjustments. This entire "nerf war" of players "getting theirs" and "calling for others" and the developers in their Ivory Towers actually paying attention to the whole ordeal, listening to people's complaints and "nerfing" based on the rants of a few whiners on the message boards is a total fabrication. It's an invention of your paranoid mind. It's tripe. Hogwash. It doesn't exist. It's spam to fill these rants on the forums. It's FICTIONAL.

Power adjustments will happen. Sometimes it will be ones certain players have asked for. The events are mutually exclusive. The developers are not standing up there saying "You get yours, muahahaha. Now you get yours! Hahaha. Nerf them all! Dooooooooom!"

The developers want the game to be fun and challenging. They want it to be fair and balanced. This will involved adjustments to powers. That is an absolute inevitability. Accept it. Play and enjoy the game for what it is and what the developers will make it. Or don't. But, please, please, for the sake of us all and in the interests of ever having a rational discussion on these boards, let go of the "you called for nerfs and so the developers did it, then you got yours serves you right," etc. crap. It's really tiresome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok Icarus, you have just been Nerfed (fixed.)
1 STAR FOR YOU! (and thats only cause you like Texas Hold-em)

btw... I live in NYC... we play every thursday

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
will come around to everyones AT once they get rolling. It was kinda funny how fast that Illusion/Fire controllers who called for SG nerf got theirs, and it will come for Spines/Invul/Regen scrappers as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* So difficult to have a discussion with anyone whose perspective is so distorted.

The developers are working on their game. They are making adjustments. This entire "nerf war" of players "getting theirs" and "calling for others" and the developers in their Ivory Towers actually paying attention to the whole ordeal, listening to people's complaints and "nerfing" based on the rants of a few whiners on the message boards is a total fabrication. It's an invention of your paranoid mind. It's tripe. Hogwash. It doesn't exist. It's spam to fill these rants on the forums. It's FICTIONAL.

Power adjustments will happen. Sometimes it will be ones certain players have asked for. The events are mutually exclusive. The developers are not standing up there saying "You get yours, muahahaha. Now you get yours! Hahaha. Nerf them all! Dooooooooom!"

The developers want the game to be fun and challenging. They want it to be fair and balanced. This will involved adjustments to powers. That is an absolute inevitability. Accept it. Play and enjoy the game for what it is and what the developers will make it. Or don't. But, please, please, for the sake of us all and in the interests of ever having a rational discussion on these boards, let go of the "you called for nerfs and so the developers did it, then you got yours serves you right," etc. crap. It's really tiresome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should really be listening to that guy on the first page, but I'll respond here quickly.

I never called for a nerf to anything on anybody. I simply was amused at how people who called for a nerf on what wasn't the most overpowered thing in the game (but still needed a fix), suddenly found themselves nerfed.

If you don't think the message board nerf wars & video clips dont contribute to what gets nerfed, you're kidding yourself. Even if it only brings a bug to the devs attention (like the case with smoke grenade).

You think AoE's would be getting tweaked (even if indirectly) if it wasn't for general outcry?

When powers get nerfed, there will be new "best" powers and those will get screamed about and nerfed. It's a never ending cycle. Eventually, "your" AT or powerset will have the "best" and then people will scream for nerfs. I've seen it happen in multiple games, so please don't say it is imaginary tripe.

Kruschev

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, I've done every single story Arc so far (probably more than you).

[/ QUOTE ]
Non-sequitor. What's your proof of this. With my main toon I have completed every single story arc up to 30. Be much deeper in if I had the time to play more often.

[ QUOTE ]
I spend a lot of time helping SG mates (well used to, theres not many any more) SK'd to clear off their debt.

[/ QUOTE ]
So what? Me too. I've never even played my main without at least a duo, in the form of my wife's character.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't even worry a TON about how fast I level. However, feeling like I'm making so little progress it will take me 10 nights of hardcore gaming simply to get 1 level isn't that much fun either.

[/ QUOTE ]
So it isn't about how fast you level... but it is about how fast you level? Color me confused with your direct self-contradiction.

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is, what CoH was at release was a wild success and people loved it.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact is that CoH is still wildly successful and people still love it. I've toyed around with the newest expansion on Test, it rocks! It's got some bugs they are still working out, but as much as most of the players will love it there will be more whiners clamoring for attention. "Boo-hoo a trial zone is too hard for me to do alone... boo-hoo." It's like this insistence that every single thing in the game should be soloable. Utter nonsense. I swear I'm waiting to read someone's complaint that TFs should be soloable too.

[ QUOTE ]
They loved that they could control the difficuly of what they fought, and the rewards scaled significantly. Adding people meant fighting harder things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Still does. The Devs have said repeatedly that the difference is that the way in which the difficulty scaled down was broken. They fixed it. You still get the same affect, people are just too worried about the rate at which they level and the min/max curve that they create a grind for themselves where it doesn't have to exist.

[ QUOTE ]
Then the purple patch went in, and it caused about 200 more balance issues with support AT's than it fixed. So now the answer is to nerf more stuff big time, and provide a bunch of small boosts to support AT's to bring the game in line with their vision.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those problems had more to do with min/max play patterns that left some archetypes behind as the Devs have said. Making minions a little stronger puts things back to the way they should be.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm simply saying that is a dangerous route to go.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm saying that. It is your opinion that what they are doing is dangerous. My opinion is that you opinion has no basis in fact.

[ QUOTE ]
So you can get off your high horse, I like to build effective characters, but so does everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
As do I, so far all of my characters are effective and I have one of every archetype. If levelling is such a chore how is it that my SG has several members into the 40s, that went from early 30s to 40 in just a couple weeks. (In fairness one plays like 6 hours a day, but the others don't. I don't play nearly that much and have one toon at 30 and a half-dozen others scattered from 12-20, it's not that hard. Oh yeah, I hardly ever solo... which according to most around here should slow me down immensely, strangely I always seem to level faster that way though.)

[ QUOTE ]
I've done task forces, story arcs (the arcs were fun, just not rewarding as they should have been), hunted trial zones, all mob types including their bosses

[/ QUOTE ]
As have I and many others. The exception for me is that I've only done one TF so far because I keep outlevelling them too fast. Maybe grouping isn't all that bad. I've actually been hoping the levelling does slow down a lot in the 30s so that I can do all my story arcs (as well as my wife's) and still have some xp room to do TFs.

[ QUOTE ]
and probably died 10 times a level because I liked to push what I could do rather than sit and safely kill whites/yellows for max xp an hour.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, me too. So what? The wife and I do mostly missions with a little +2 or +3 street hunting. I'd say that we averaged 3-4 hours of playtime per level in the 20s. You could double that in the 30s and that is still pretty fast levelling. With increased xp from missions, story arcs, and TFs coming what is the big complaint?

You've done a lot of talking without presenting much of an argument. How about some examples of these big nerfs? You're entire rant seems to be about the much balley-hooed purple patch which was put in, what 2 1/2 months ago? Haven't subscriptions gone up since then? Must be doing something right. Would that mean your doom-and-gloom prophecies are actually wrong?

[ QUOTE ]
Don't assume so much about me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I did nothing of the sort. My comments were about the nerf whines in general. I didn't say that you were a min/max'er or focused entirely on levelling. Strangely, you responded by saying first that you didn't care about that stuff and second that you are levelling too slowly...

As others have said, the Devs have to worry about making this game fun for over 180,000 gamers. Most of whom may not share the same idea of "fun" as you and like me may think many of the changes the Devs have made are just fine and actually improve the game.

[ QUOTE ]
So you're upset that you can't take a villian 4+ levels higher than you by yourself?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I first started the game, there was a nice scaling to how much risk I took to how much reward I got.

That scaling has been slowly eroded. Now I must take twice the risk for half the reward (even in teams).

To me, that isnt fun. Maybe to others it is. I'm an odd mix of power/casual gamer.

Im a power gamer at heart and in builds, but I'm a casual gamer in my time to play -- therefore, in my 10-12 hours a week, I would like to make nice progress. This game WAS great for letting me do that.

And you all are exactly right, I can vote with my money, but I'd like to see it not come down to that.

[ QUOTE ]
I can vote with my money

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if you got all 75 people from your SG to quit, but really this isn't a mom and pop store. $15 less a month means jack all...

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I did nothing of the sort. My comments were about the nerf whines in general. I didn't say that you were a min/max'er or focused entirely on levelling. Strangely, you responded by saying first that you didn't care about that stuff and second that you are levelling too slowly...

As others have said, the Devs have to worry about making this game fun for over 180,000 gamers. Most of whom may not share the same idea of "fun" as you and like me may think many of the changes the Devs have made are just fine and actually improve the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry then, your wording seemed to direct it at me specifically.

If you read what they said, they've had 180k subscribers "with a good retention rate". Say a good retention rate is 75%, that means they're really under 150k charged credit cards every month.

Looking at my friends list & SG, the retention rate has been heinous, so that must not be what everyone else is seeing with theirs

I didn't say I didn't care, I said I don't care a LOT but I don't want to make very slow progress either -- and I think you'll find everyone but some hard core RPers will agree to this.

As far as min/maxing, I played a Fixer for the first year of Anarchy Online, if you know anything about that game they were probably worse than the an all power pool controller.

Incidentally, I love a lot of the stuff second issue is bringing. Badges, respec, new trials are all wonderful additions. It's just too bad it's combined with nerfing my favorite hero both directly (SG, which wouldnt be awful except it seems like an overnerf) and indirectly (more CC mobs, err.. *sigh* - and like rikti didn't already own me 3 ways from sunday).

[ QUOTE ]
When I first started the game, there was a nice scaling to how much risk I took to how much reward I got.

That scaling has been slowly eroded. Now I must take twice the risk for half the reward (even in teams).

[/ QUOTE ]

And the devs have said repeatedly that the difficulty level did not scale right at first. They fixed that. The badguys have levels attached to them for a reason, it's supposed to mean something. Stateman has said time and time again that you should not routinely be soloing +3 and +4 bosses and LTs or higher. That said I can routinely (once SOs kick in in the 20s) handle minions +3 and +4 for great xp... if I am careful and kick in a few inspirations. So what's the problem? The great irony is that if things were this way from the get-go no one would be the wiser. What then would the complainers that follow every game complain about.

You want to see gamer requested nerfing witness the first 12 months of SWG. That was the doom-and-gloom scenario. You know something, it started right away with the second or third patch. I saw it and quit because of it. Every class I played was nerfed into futility. CoH's fixes have been nothing like that. As I pointed out these guys are actually increasing the effectiveness of the vast majority of powers and ATs.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can vote with my money

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if you got all 75 people from your SG to quit, but really this isn't a mom and pop store. $15 less a month means jack all...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the thread, most of them already did :/

And you're obviously not a businessman, cause even big companies realize that losing even an individual customer is terrible, and will typically go to great lengths to maintain them.

You also never lose "a single customer". You lose many customers for each one that complains, another 10 simply dont go to your store any more for without ever saying a word.

[ QUOTE ]
I never called for a nerf to anything on anybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did.

[ QUOTE ]
I simply was amused at how people who called for a nerf on what wasn't the most overpowered thing in the game (but still needed a fix), suddenly found themselves nerfed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Included in this statement is the assumption that somehow a particular group of players were calling for the nerf any moreso than any other group. Just more baseless paranoia to add to the heap of this imaginary nerf conflict.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think the message board nerf wars & video clips dont contribute to what gets nerfed, you're kidding yourself. Even if it only brings a bug to the devs attention

[/ QUOTE ]

If the boards bring something to the developers attention, it is still fully in the power of the developers to determine whether or not a fix is actually in order, and if it's something that does indeed need fixing, then it would have come to their attention in one way or another eventually anyway. That's it. That's the extent of the forum involvement in the adjustment of powers. The only people "kidding" themselves are those who have concocted this vision of the developers scanning the forums and compiling what people are "complaining" about most, and then basing their decisions on what powers to adjust on these compiled numbers of whiney posts.

[ QUOTE ]
You think AoE's would be getting tweaked (even if indirectly) if it wasn't for general outcry?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Absolutely. They have data on what powers are doing what kinds of damage. They know about herding. They don't need whiners on the forums to point out the disparity in usefullness between single target and AoE blasters. It's their game. Believe me, they're not using some SGs latest "uber build" video to determine how they're going to do their jobs.

[ QUOTE ]
When powers get nerfed, there will be new "best" powers and those will get screamed about and nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

[/ QUOTE ]

...in your head. "Powers will get screamed about." <-- True, unavoidable. "and nerfed." <-- assumption, based on your misconception of the developers as mindless zombies, responding to the whining rants of 0.01% of their players.

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen it happen in multiple games, so please don't say it is imaginary tripe.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have seen powers adjusted in multiple games? Wow, I'm so shocked. Because, you know, it happens in EVERY GAME. I'd wager "the forums" never played as major a role as people seem to want to believe.

[ QUOTE ]
… This entire … [idea that] the developers … [are] actually paying attention to the whole ordeal, listening to people's complaints and "nerfing" based on the rants of a few whiners on the message boards is a total fabrication. It's an invention of your paranoid mind. It's tripe. Hogwash. It doesn't exist. It's spam to fill these rants on the forums. It's FICTIONAL …

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. This paranoia was rampant on the SWG forums, but I hold a firm belief that although game developers might use forums to help them, they do not let them sway them significantly in relation to actual data mining.

[ QUOTE ]
When making a game a developer will soon realize their vision of a game might not always be in line with the will of the players. A good developer will realize that it may be neccessary to sacrifice parts of that vision to keep the game in line with what the players have decided their vision of the game is. Developers who do not follow this path are ultimately going to turn away their own players and damage the game for everyone, developer and gamer alike, with the changes that follow in their attempt to force people to play as they had originaly invisioned so long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post, I couldn't agree more.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I never called for a nerf to anything on anybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did.

[ QUOTE ]
I simply was amused at how people who called for a nerf on what wasn't the most overpowered thing in the game (but still needed a fix), suddenly found themselves nerfed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Included in this statement is the assumption that somehow a particular group of players were calling for the nerf any moreso than any other group. Just more baseless paranoia to add to the heap of this imaginary nerf conflict.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think the message board nerf wars & video clips dont contribute to what gets nerfed, you're kidding yourself. Even if it only brings a bug to the devs attention

[/ QUOTE ]

If the boards bring something to the developers attention, it is still fully in the power of the developers to determine whether or not a fix is actually in order, and if it's something that does indeed need fixing, then it would have come to their attention in one way or another eventually anyway. That's it. That's the extent of the forum involvement in the adjustment of powers. The only people "kidding" themselves are those who have concocted this vision of the developers scanning the forums and compiling what people are "complaining" about most, and then basing their decisions on what powers to adjust on these compiled numbers of whiney posts.

[ QUOTE ]
You think AoE's would be getting tweaked (even if indirectly) if it wasn't for general outcry?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Absolutely. They have data on what powers are doing what kinds of damage. They know about herding. They don't need whiners on the forums to point out the disparity in usefullness between single target and AoE blasters. It's their game. Believe me, they're not using some SGs latest "uber build" video to determine how they're going to do their jobs.

[ QUOTE ]
When powers get nerfed, there will be new "best" powers and those will get screamed about and nerfed. It's a never ending cycle.

[/ QUOTE ]

...in your head. "Powers will get screamed about." <-- True, unavoidable. "and nerfed." <-- assumption, based on your misconception of the developers as mindless zombies, responding to the whining rants of 0.01% of their players.

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen it happen in multiple games, so please don't say it is imaginary tripe.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have seen powers adjusted in multiple games? Wow, I'm so shocked. Because, you know, it happens in EVERY GAME. I'd wager "the forums" never played as major a role as people seem to want to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really want to track down the string of posts where it slowly dawns on Geko & Statesmen that the front end damage loading from multiple AoE's makes the 30+ a bit too easy?

Of course, too easy because we're fighting +2/3 instead of +5/7 in teams, but that was seemingly forgotten.

That was direct feedback from the forums on why certain AT's felt their usefullness was lacking, leading to changes that will "lessen" AoE relative effectiveness.

I bet your a systems admin

[ QUOTE ]
If they change the game as drastically as Statesman is wanting to at this point in time, they will lose many subscribers. They also will receive so much negative feedback that they will not gain many new subscribers to replace them. Hence, changing the rules of this game now will result in the loss of what makes this game possible in the first place, money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Changing things drastically?...u mean cutting players cheesy builds, who cancel accounts anyway because they grind through 50 lvls of street hunts in 1 week with their broken hero (smoke grenade for ex) and get bored?....those kinda players (your comments make you seem to be one) will get bored and move on no matter what.

I've met some high lvl players (lvl 41 and up) without a SINGLE souvenir aka, they grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and.......

[ QUOTE ]

You have seen powers adjusted in multiple games? Wow, I'm so shocked. Because, you know, it happens in EVERY GAME. I'd wager "the forums" never played as major a role as people seem to want to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you there with a caveat: SWG. Anyone who witnessed first hand how that one went down knows there were two groups at fault: whining players and "please everyone" Devs. In fact this goes to the heart of the argument. At least the CoH guys are sticking to a plan. The SWG guys just willy-nilly started changing crap in an attempt to make everyone happy and in the end left everyone angry. They literally left no skillset untouched. Here when someone points out something that may be broken they check it out but I've seen them say "It's not broken" and often as they've come back and said that the data seems to show a change may be in order.

The fact that the main poster is calling the SG change a "nerf" says a lot. A power that results in zero risk and is more effective as a secondary power set power, than an equivalent primary power set power is broken. Period. It needed to be fixed.

Edit to add: Oh and the big difference between SWG and CoH is that, so far, the CoH devs are generally increasing the power of ATs instead of lowering almost all of them.

[ QUOTE ]

I bet your a systems admin

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! Close... kind of... it's complicated. That was funny though.