Icarus_Factor

[ QUOTE ]
This is a complete red herring and I'm sick of seeing it. Massively Multiplayer != Group-only game play. I can be chatting with 10 other members of my supergroup while I solo a mission. That's still a "multiplayer" experience. So don't pretend that "multiplayer" = "group-based missions" because it does NOT. They are not synonymous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Synonymous, no. However, MMORPG does imply that some in-game goals will require the assitance of other players. The heart of multiplayer game design is the ability to expand gameplay into new areas because of the added possibilities of teamwork, cooperation, communication, competition, etc. It's one of the founding philosophies of the genre, "Hey, this game is great, wouldn't it be cool if my friends could be right here alongside me fighting these monsters too?"

The game is clearly not "group-only" gameplay. What I'm "sick of seeing" is an army of whiners every time there is content added which requires cooperation.

All you have to do is come to terms with the fact that the game will have BOTH solo content and team content, and no there will not be "solo alternative" versions of every single task and mission in the game implemented just to appease the 2% of the people out there who outright refuse to break down and find a team now and again.

[ QUOTE ]
But neither they, nor you, nor anyone else, should use "this is an MMO" as an excuse to make a mission be un-soloable. It's not a viable excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just got done explaining that it's a design philosophy. You don't need an "excuse" to implement a particular design philosophy.

That said, "this is an MMO" is, in fact, a perfectly reasonable response, because that is the driving force behind the design philosophy. As I said above, one of the core tenets of the MMO genre is content which emphasizes cooperation. The designers of the game have chosen, as 99.9% of persistent online game designers do, to include content which not only encourages but requires the participation of more than a single player.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the point of playing an online game is to be able to socialize with other people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly not the case as plenty of online games I have played do not allow "socilization" at all. Hardcore RPGs require in-character roleplaying at all times, and contact with other players is limited to those who are close to you geographically.

I digress, though. My point is not to contradict you, but to show you that trying to nail down "the point of playing an online game" is as difficult as trying to spell out "the point of watching a movie," or "the point of listening to the radio."

There are many reasons why people play MMORPGs. Some like the competition. Some like the socialization. Some like cooperation. The bottom line is it is up to the designers and developers to provide the MEANS to experience a variety of things. They decide what "the points" are, and also specify how people are to go about achieving those "points." i.e., if they want you to chat, they will provide gathering areas and a chat system, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
You've just contradicted yourself. If you're right and "majority who play online games do so because they want to interact with other real live players", then why do they need any mechanism at all to encourage grouping? Won't it automatically happen since by your claim most of the players want it in the first place? It's not clear why the devs should need to reward a behavior "the majority" wants to engage in... they just... will. Won't they?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no. Just wanting to do something is not reason enough to do it. For example, I often want to leave work early and go home to sleep. However, I don't have a good reason to do so and have plenty of reasons to not do so.

In the same sense, the designers provide content which requires cooperation in order to give those players who desire a cooperative experience a REASON to engage in such. They're not just going to form up and group so they can walk around staring at the pretty sprites and chatting about last night's NBA game.

[ QUOTE ]
Again I ask, if the "majority" want to do group activities, why does it need to be pushed by the devs at all? Won't what the majority want to do just happen naturally? And if it isn't happening naturally, and has to be 'forced' (as it were), then can you really make the claim that the majority wants it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, no. Just "wanting" to do something is not reason enough to do it. There has to be some manner of challenge and reward involved.

You're twisting the statement semantically to make a (long winded) and poorly thought-out point. Players don't "want to group," they "want content that requires cooperation."

[ QUOTE ]
The main problem is that COH doesn't encourage grouping... it encourages grouping with random people. And a lot of folks who want to group, may not necessarily want to do random pickup gruops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunate for them. However, the ability to group with "random" people and still manage to form an effective and well balanced group is one of the skills it takes to excel and succeed in CoH. If players don't wish to develop this skill, then they will simply have to understand that not all content will be accessible conveniently.

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't that me MY choice, not Cryptics?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing about how the game works is your choice. The only choice you have is "play or don't."

[ QUOTE ]
And again that some missions are not solo-able is not the problem -- but rather, that you can have all 3 of your "mission slots" filled with un-solo-able missions on a day when you just feel like soloing today. And THAT is the problem. If players could choose or trade missions back in or something, it would be a LOT less of an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but that sounds like an incredibly trivial complaint to me. Almost on par with a "whine."

How often do you find yourself with 3 mission slots filled with missions that cannot be solo'd? If it does happen to occur, what are the chances at least one of those missions can't easily be completed by just grabbing one other person and duo'ing the mission quickly in order to make room for more solo friendly content?

The answer? Not bloody often. If you are in the situation, and your "mood" with respect to teaming is really such a static on/off switch, then tough luck; I suspect, however, that it would be a relatively minor inconvenience to LFT for 90 seconds in order to find one other person to help you clear up a few slots and then thank them for their time and continue on with the solo content.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Statesman on forced grouping/solo'ing

Statesman on solo'ing, solo'ing missoins, and the difference of various AT's ability to solo.

Statesman on making the game harder, and why.

Statesman saying he still wants people to be able to solo, and other stuff.

Statesman explains again about making the game harder.

~~~~

Darn that pesky research proving your conspiracy theory wrong!

Forced grouping would mean I was back in EQ, where it could take 1min to 3hrs to find a group. Having to find a group, or 1 or 2 other people out of every couple missions to help take down a boss isn't forced grouping. Besides, go to your local contact, stock up on lucks and you shouldn't have much problem anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know its funny in all those quotes, States keeps mentioning the desirablity of Street hunting for would be soloer's

[ QUOTE ]

a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet for some reason Positron had something very diffrent to say on the subject

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1796811

[ QUOTE ]


Our goal is for you never to run out of missions or things to do... "street hunting" should be an absolute last resort...

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda makes you wonder if they ever talk to one and other huh? I mean Posi says bug instance of 5th, followed by States saying not too. States says soloing should be viable for streethunting, and Posi says streethunting should be an absolute last resort.

Have fun !

[/ QUOTE ]


For those of you wondering why the Developers don't post more often in the forums.

^^ There you have it.

[ QUOTE ]
Now that Bosses usually require help does anyone see a trend in the game towards forced grouping?

[/ QUOTE ]

God I hope so. Then we can put the matter to rest and stop [censored] about it on the forums, eh?

[ QUOTE ]
agreed. but there are no inspirations presently that reduce damage altogether

[/ QUOTE ]

Defense effectively reduces overall damage taken. Combined with Healing and Discipline to resist secondary affects, there is just as much opportunity to counter a Blaster with Inpsirations as there are to counter Controllers.

Bottom line is, you only have room for so many Inspirations. Sure, you can carry 12 Disciplines and be "unholdable" for awhile, if you want, but where does that leave you with Healing, Accuracy, Defense, Ressurrect, etc.? It's a choice and a balance that everyone is going to have to learn to make.

Occasionally a Controller might meet someone who has stocked up on Disciplines and whatever this new Inspiration is. In that case, they will have a tough battle ahead of them.

Likewise, occasionally a Blaster is going to go up against a Tanker who has all of his resists toggled, and a tray full of Healing and Defense inspirations. Again, an obstacle to overcome.

When it comes down to it, no one person is going to be prepared to deal with every scenario at all times. That's a key aspect of balance in PVP.

The idea that this inspiration makes Controller less powerful is retarded.

That's like saying Healing inspirations make Blasters useless, because you can "negate" their powers by using an inspiration afterward.

[ QUOTE ]
Get a tank and a healer/bubbler.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or don't. You don't need 'em.

I did this mission Controller/Blaster/Tanker just yesterday. Given the difficulty, I gurantee I could have done it Controller/Blaster/Scrapper or an even less "standard" configuration. The difficulty was nominal and the reactor never dropped below 85%.

[ QUOTE ]
Does it seem odd to anyone else that the trial necessary to fix a GIMPED character is the hardest [censored] mission in the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, that's not the point to the mission.

Secondly, it's not that difficult. I have done it three times. Once with THREE people, none of which were a Tanker or Defender; something most people will claim is "necessary" to completing the TF.

In truth, the only thing necessary is patience and a little bit of intelligence. Keep your team small and balanced. Lead them well. Communicate. Don't aggro more than one group at a time, and stick together. That's it.

If you can't assemble and lead a team sufficiently well to complete this mission, then your character isn't the only thing that's GIMPed.

[ QUOTE ]
welcome to the first stage of dissociation, and possibly psychosis. i would recommend seeing a psychiatrist immediately. no i'm not kidding about this. you could have an underlying mental illness that hasn't been noticed, or has been ignored. don't get to the point i was at before you seek help. (not video game related)

oh, if the shrink moves right into giving you drugs after one session, get another doctor. no doctor worth his degree will start handing out samples like candy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quickly! Overreact! Misdiagnose! Be pompous! It's imperative.

My mom used to hound me all the time about "playing too many games."

Now I make them for a living. I think I turned out all right.

So, do what makes you happy.

Yah, CJ and SJ couldn't be activated simultanoeously prepatch. Not sure what the effect would be anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
I would have thought that making a factual post to refute someone elses blatant lie of a post would lend me credibility and remove his.

Welcome to reality

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. What reality is that, exactly? Sorry, man. Pointing out that someone else is a liar or a cheat or a thief doesn't give anyone with common sense any reason to believe that you're not any one of those things.

You earn respect by being honest, not by revealing dishonesty in others.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but he was nominated fanboy of the quarter long ago by almost 60% of the board

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a lesson on manipulating statistics, friends. Just take "me and a couple other trolls," and replace it with "almost 60%," and there you have it! Instant support for your argument!

[ QUOTE ]
his profile is filled with lies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Filled? Really? Filled? Like, my profile isn't even that long. Maybe you could enlighten me; I'll be glad to make appropriate adjustments. Also, feel free to let me know how you got this information. I mean, that is, unless you just made it up because you're a bitter little troll with nothing better to post.

[ QUOTE ]
Companies listen to complaints, and from there, they will adjust the product accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know a lot of companies who make adjustments to their products based on the complaints of 0.05% of their customers. Wait, no I don't, because they all went out of business when they lost the other 99.95%.

Honestly. Get it through your head. The forum "whiners" do not represent Cryptic's demographic. They are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction... they are insignificant. They are not driving development. They are, for all intents and purposes, ignored.

[ QUOTE ]
Even if experience is increased ALOT for minions, leveling will not be fun just killing pack of three minions after three minions.

Yet another poor choice by the devs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. More bang-up logic. Somehow we're supposed to accept that it will "not be fun" to kill three minions, but that it would be okay if we were killing, what, ten, or fifteen? Even if it's the same amount of challenge, risk, time and reward? Why, exactly, 'cause there's more pictures on the screen? Haha.

[ QUOTE ]
That is why I have credibility and Bladewraith doesn't. My post is backed up by facts, Bladewraiths isn't. He has been offered the chance to prove himself to be above the game mechanics but instead chooses not to

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry hombre, just pointing out someone else's (possible) lie doesn't give YOU any more credibility.

I held out for awhile, Vegetator. I tried. I really did... but, I'm afraid:
[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

Peace out, troll.

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone knows your full of it

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello. I'm the center of the universe. I don't agree with you, so "everyone" must know you're full of it.

This thread was relatively readable until you got here, Val. As for "credibility," who are you and why do you have any?

[ QUOTE ]
What you are saying is that a level 50 blaster should have as much trouble with a level 50 skull as with a level 1 did with a lvl 1 skull. That's absurd in my opinion, because it COMPLETELY removes one of the most "fun" elements of this game: getting more powerful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Self-contradictory statements are fun kids!

I went from fighting well against Level 1s to fighting well against Level 50s, but I didn't get any more powerful!

Tell me... how?

[ QUOTE ]
Lvl 40 minions should not be similarly difficult as they were to you at level 1 otherwise this is just EQ in tights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah... okay. I realize "EQ in tights," is like a little buzz-phrase and it's cool to throw it around, but are you serious?

Listen, it's quite simple -- if you are wading through mob after mob of RED con minions, then they're just going to reduce the XP reward you get for winning against them. Would that be preferable?

I don't understand what you expect.

Something is too hard for you. You level. Now you can kill it. That's called becoming more powerful. If it's the "pretty colors" that do it for you, then just imagine that "white" means "hard," and you should be okay.

[ QUOTE ]
And what you are absoulutely refusing to accept is that that relative level of power has no effect on the game and is not in any way related to anything we do to progress our position in the game - i.e. our level. We are not exposed to it. It does not enter into our game experience. Ergo we do not give a damn about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, what? It enters into my game experience every day. If I can't take a group of enemies in a particular area, I'll go gain a level, then come back and try again.

Do I feel like I have accomplished "less" because the enemies are now "white" instead of "yellow?" No, they are the same enemies that handed me my a$$ a few hours ago, and now I'm back to pay them a visit. It makes me feel great. Like, oh, I don't know... I've GOTTEN MORE POWERFUL.

[ QUOTE ]
And there's also quite a difference in politely debating vs being an overt flaming a$$hat like you always prefer being.

I agree with some of the points you make, but your delivery is 'teh suck!'

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I'm not really here to make friends, and I learned about a decade ago that polite debating bounces off 90% of internet users, especially on message boards.


Drayvis is keeping his head on straight in the face of a lot of silliness. Here's a tip folks, the COLOR of the mob is TOTALLY ARBITRARY. Would it make you feel better if they didn't tell you what level the mobs were, and after the patch whites were yellow, yellows were orange, oranges were red, etc.?

The important thing is that the game is challenging and rewarding. If you're being challenged, and rewarded appropriately for overcoming those challenges, I don't understand what difference it makes if the guys' names are white, brown, purple, pink, or aquamarine.

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly why I never start a thread on these forums. No one is entitled to his or her opinion here, it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

*snore*

Please. There's quite a difference between "having an opinion," and making a post about how the developers of the game should be chaing the way they do their jobs based on that opinion.

One is acceptable. The other deserves exactly the response I gave it.

[ QUOTE ]
See thats the problem, I don't really have much faith that in this happening at an appropriate level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who can blame you? I mean, with all the experience we have with Cryptic releasing content updates for this game, I don't think anyone has faith in them knowing how to adjust their game properly.

Oh... wait, that's right, there have been no major content updates. So, what's your lack of faith based on, besides your desire to have something to complain about?

[ QUOTE ]
He'll cut the good builds to 1/10th the xp/hr then compensate by upping the xp of minions by 30%

[/ QUOTE ]

Aww, cute. Thanks for the totally baseless, almost certainly wrong assumptions with numbers you pulled from deep within the recesses of your turd factory.

[ QUOTE ]
This is far more likely to happen in a mmo

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. Yes, based on all the other Super Hero MMOs from Cryptic Studios, I think it's safe to make this assumption.

[ QUOTE ]
and is what we're on the path to seeing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's easy to say we're "on the path" once you make a string of arbitrary assumptions to get us there.

How about instead of making these completely random assumptions, we wait and see how he ACTUALLY fixes the issue and then critique the result?

[ QUOTE ]
Well then REDUCE SO's % buff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, why? So people can come here and complain about that "nerf" instead?

Come on, be reasonable. If they complain about this, they will definitely complain about that.

How about players just accept that the game is about to get a little more challenging? Strap in.

[ QUOTE ]
A Developer who doesn't take the suggestions of it's customers into account is being foolish....Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

A few threads crying out for nerfs on the forums hardly qualifies as the "suggestions of the customers," in this case. You must keep in mind, as I'm sure the developers always do, that the forum community represents a small fraction of the player population, and those crying for nerfs a small fraction of THAT community.

Rest assured, the developers make decisions based on many, many things quite probably the least of which is what the issue-of-the-day is on the forums. The "Nerf War" is a fabrication. It gives people a focus for their anger, something to point the finger at and say, "There! That's the reason why I'm so mad." It's a self-fueling myth, new people come to the forums and read the rants of old people who have read the rants of even older people, and pass down the lie that the developers are at their keyboards, ever-watchful of the forum threads, with the code for the game open in another window, just ready and waiting for the next whiney rant so they can get to work making changes to the game. It's laughably silly when you really think about it, but some people just choose not to. They go on, ranting, flaming and whining until their faces turn blue and their ears turn red and we all press ALT-F4 and boot up the game so we don't have to read their incessant cries of "I was nerfed and it's all your fault!"

[ QUOTE ]
2, you didn't witness anything that occurred so your "theories"
regarding what occurred are even more "assinine", and ignorant,
than mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like how "we're in the same boat," but sneakily my theories somehow ended up "even more" asinine than yours.

Anyway, I use relatively common sense and my own experience in the industry to make a comparatively well-educated guess that the developers, a group of professionals directing the fate of a multi-million dollar project which provides them and probably many others with income and therefore livelihood, are not making decisions based on the rants and raves of a FRACTION of 1% of their customers.

To get where they are, they would already have to be much smarter than that.

You on the other hand, well... lets just say you don't have to pass any tests to get an account and post on the forums.

[ QUOTE ]
But trying to speak of matters you were not witness to, only
proves that you speak from ignorance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be sure to let all Historians know that their profession is a farce. They will be heartbroken.

[ QUOTE ]
You weren't around, ergo, you do not know what happened..

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I didn't realize I was speaking with a Cryptic employee who "was around" when the developers were making decisions about the game, I thought I was talking to a blowhard player who thinks he knows what happened because he spent his time trolling the forums and concocting asinine theories about how the developers make their decisions.

[ QUOTE ]
End of story.

[/ QUOTE ]

We should only be so lucky.

[ QUOTE ]
It is quite possible, given the huge volume, that the data was
only mined after those posts gave them reason to focus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and if the data was mined and found to be inconsistent with the developers intentions and they decided a fix was in order then the fix was made BECAUSE OF THE DATA, not because of the whines.

There's an ocean of difference between bringing someone's attentiont to something that might need addressing, and directly affecting their actions as a result.

[ QUOTE ]
You weren't around for any of that so, kindly, shut the hell up
regarding matters of which you have no knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. Umm, no. Sorry, dude, I don't bow to the classic forum [censored]'s "I've been here longer so I must be righter," argument. It's funny to see you try to use it, though. I would have expected it from you if anyone.