Teleport is nerfed.
By
BlindeyeInsight,
Posted on: 2004-09-18 16:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
getting between the trees in perez is so easy now, you can do it with just sprint in some places. in almost all others fly or superjump (maybe combat jumping, but not sure) is all you need. and the enemies do not teleport into wierd places like between walls. so yeah, this is a bigfix. you shouldn't be able to warp under the map and all that, despite how fun it is.
officially a "self-important forum-facsist[sic]"
That sort of thing is rampant in the computer game industry, where game designers put in cheats for npcs (letting npcs do things players cant) because writing decent tactial AI is too hard or too much work. Very common place, unfortunately.
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getting between the trees in perez is so easy now, you can do it with just sprint in some places. in almost all others fly or superjump (maybe combat jumping, but not sure) is all you need. and the enemies do not teleport into wierd places like between walls. so yeah, this is a bigfix. you shouldn't be able to warp under the map and all that, despite how fun it is.
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So, fine, take out the ability for players to teleport into space that shouldn't be accessable period, like under the map or behind the forcefields or under the floor in City Hall. But don't take away the useful application of letting me teleport through obstacles and saving some Endurance during my trip through DA (Where I can't see them until I'm right on them) or teleporting through the trees in Perez.
They didn't even bother mentioning this little "fix" in the patch notes.
Why should the Mobs be subject to the same rules as players?
Honestly?
If you went head to head with your build at your level but it was a computer controlled Mob you *should* win. The only reason you wouldn't is because you're bad at using your character's build. The computer can't "think outside the box". It can't react in realistic intelligent ways and it can't learn.
So unless you want a game that offers Zero challenge you need to learn to accept the fact that the computer can do things you can't.
you realize that you can still do that right? if you can see a valid surface to TP to, you can do it. that hasn't changed. I only see them fixing stuff so that only what SHOULD be valid, really is. what's between you and your valid destination does not, did not, and will not matter. ever.
officially a "self-important forum-facsist[sic]"
You also drop like a stone much quicker now compared to Pre-Issue 2. I almost died a few times yesterday before I got the hang of it again.
Another stealth nerf: you can no longer use Combat Jumping and Super Jump together. I fell 600 yards down in Faultline figuring that one out.
Jerkface101
wha? i've never been able to use cj and sj at the same time...
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Another stealth nerf: you can no longer use Combat Jumping and Super Jump together. I fell 600 yards down in Faultline figuring that one out.
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Combat Jumping and Super Jump have always been mutually exclusive. At least with every character with them that I've played. Activating one automatically deactivates the other.
CoH Codex : Demo Models/FX/MOVs : Demo Info
Arc 111022: "Doctor Geist and the Scientific Method"
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you realize that you can still do that right? if you can see a valid surface to TP to, you can do it. that hasn't changed. I only see them fixing stuff so that only what SHOULD be valid, really is. what's between you and your valid destination does not, did not, and will not matter. ever.
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No, I don't realise that. Probably because I've tried teleporting to a valid surface through a wall, and I was unable to do it because I couldn't see that surface unless I adjusted the cam_dist variable. Pre-patch, I could actually stand on a store, look down into it, and teleport in and then out again without using the door. I also liked being able to teleport directly between the interiors of Freedom Corps and Tabitha Fabish in Talos.
Being forced to use the door now is a slightly annoying quirk, but I can live with that. I do, however, very much miss some of my long-distance mission shortcut teleports (through explored areas to quickly get back to an elevator/room) and my easy building pass-through.
I did once manage to teleport into the Mutant store in Talos. I don't know how I did it, as I have not been alble to reproduce the feat.
It's bothersome, and I don't see what the purpose was in completely destroying it rather than limiting my destinations to valid locations.
Anyone with Teleport should be scare S***less of teleporting somewhere they can't see.
I mean - It's suicidal. What if you teleported and came back half-embedded in stone? You're dead. No saving throw.
For this game, though, I imagine jumping through walls was fun. That might be the *only* good reason to take teleport that I've seen so far. And it's been nullified.
Shame. I didn't even know. 
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and the enemies do not teleport into wierd places like between walls. so yeah, this is a bigfix.
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Well let's see...did Virginia Hoffman's door mission vs Tsoo in a Rikti mapsetting three times with a friend this morning; first time went fine, 2nd time 1 single sorc teleported outside of bounds(defeat all Tsoo being the objective); we both searched every possible nook and cranny using fly while mashing Tab to find a target with no luck. Ended up relogging to reset, went through a third time, focusing harder on Sorcs; one went inside a wall again, but thankfully teleported back inside bounds shortly after; basically the OP's right in most aspects, the mobs are still able to get themselves stuck
Yah, CJ and SJ couldn't be activated simultanoeously prepatch. Not sure what the effect would be anyway?
Dimensio wrote:
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you realize that you can still do that right? if you can see a valid surface to TP to, you can do it. that hasn't changed. I only see them fixing stuff so that only what SHOULD be valid, really is. what's between you and your valid destination does not, did not, and will not matter. ever.
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No, I don't realise that. Probably because I've tried teleporting to a valid surface through a wall, and I was unable to do it because I couldn't see that surface unless I adjusted the cam_dist variable. Pre-patch, I could actually stand on a store, look down into it, and teleport in and then out again without using the door. I also liked being able to teleport directly between the interiors of Freedom Corps and Tabitha Fabish in Talos.
Being forced to use the door now is a slightly annoying quirk, but I can live with that. I do, however, very much miss some of my long-distance mission shortcut teleports (through explored areas to quickly get back to an elevator/room) and my easy building pass-through.
I did once manage to teleport into the Mutant store in Talos. I don't know how I did it, as I have not been alble to reproduce the feat.
It's bothersome, and I don't see what the purpose was in completely destroying it rather than limiting my destinations to valid locations.
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Wow, you can't cheat any more? Yeah, I'd be pissed too! Forced to play by the rules... how rude! And don't give me none of that "heroes have ethics" crap, either!
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
How is it cheating? I'm not breaking the range rules. In some cases, it's just a matter of making it easier to hit a teleport destination when I could do it otherwise through difficult camera manipulations.
Cheating is going out of bounds. I used to do that, but I only did it for a laugh, not to complete a mission (except for the one time when I *HAD* to go out of bounds because the Freak firebomb was put there)
Using the programming outside of the manner in which it was intended is, at the least, an exploit. Doing it knowingly and calling it a "teleport shortcut" sounds very much like cheating to me.
And then whining about it is just crass.
You asked, I replied.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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Using the programming outside of the manner in which it was intended is, at the least, an exploit. Doing it knowingly and calling it a "teleport shortcut" sounds very much like cheating to me.
And then whining about it is just crass.
You asked, I replied.
--NT
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hahaha too funny
"truly unlocked the versatility" lol priceless
take a look at this
"So 'sploit while you can. Attacks like FSC that do both Lethal and Fire are particularly effective. "
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How is it cheating? I'm not breaking the range rules. In some cases, it's just a matter of making it easier to hit a teleport destination when I could do it otherwise through difficult camera manipulations.
Cheating is going out of bounds. I used to do that, but I only did it for a laugh, not to complete a mission (except for the one time when I *HAD* to go out of bounds because the Freak firebomb was put there)
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You not cheating, just abusing the rules. It is intended for teleport to be line of sight. You look into the distance and POOF you are where you looked. That was the spirit of the power.
Now you discovered the power of x-ray and telescopic vision because effectively that is what you now have. You can see through walls when abusing the cam_dist command. You can now look across the zone and VOILA! teleport there.
So if it gets nerfed - enjoy the temp powers of xray vision and telescopic vision that you have currently. Don't whine about! There are countless people (including myself) that never knew about the way this power can be abused/expploited etc. Call it like you want, but you are exploiting the power.
Is pulling 30 foes into a dumpster and killing them all with 2 aoe's breaking the rules? No it is abusing the rules, for all you did was exploit them not hack code or dupe anything. This is the same thing. I am sure we can have people wanting to keep this exploit going, explain it a hundred ways to keep it.
BUT if it gets nerfed "too bad.. so sorry! Want some whine with that cheese?"
So how does "cam_dist" work? Searches turn up nothing on it in relation to CoH.
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You also drop like a stone much quicker now compared to Pre-Issue 2. I almost died a few times yesterday before I got the hang of it again.
Another stealth nerf: you can no longer use Combat Jumping and Super Jump together. I fell 600 yards down in Faultline figuring that one out.
Jerkface101
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CJ and SJ were changed in mid-beta. you havent been able to do it ever in retail.
in beta CJ and Sj basically gave you a little extra travel distance (about 10 yards) with the combat bonus of CJ.
Bone Daddies have access to Dark Melee AND Dark Blast.
Behemoths have access to Fire Blast AND Invulnerability.
That's just naming a couple off the top of my head. Really, if you want to argue players should be able to do the same things that villains can, you're talking about a whole lot more than just changing Teleport.
What about thin things?
I never knew this "bug" but I was pissed off already because of all these new doors. I should be able to tp through them, shouldn't I? Heck, in that low-level warehouse 5th column mission there were enemies RUNNING THROUGH THEM. But I digress.
If you travel from one point to another, and there is a pre-requisite that there are no breaks in that line, it's not teleportation. It might be speed-of-light travel, but I'm not teleporting.
I want to be able to turn on invisibility and TP through a door so I can scout the room behind without my team having to say, "Whup, a door. Everyone backtrack 50 yards so our invis guy can scout it." It's an inconvenience, and convenience is the reason that travel powers exist at all.
lol, and I came in here to say teleport needed to have better range...
Hey, I'm all for the whole teleport through walls deal and if I had found out that it could be done prepatch, I wouldn't have made a fuss since teleport really needs help. But now that it's changed it's not going to be changed back. It simply will not because you were exploiting a map-bug. (and I am sorry that it was fixed because porters, although it's supposed to be a great travel power, it isn't.)
But I'm all for a range increase on Port and better depth control of your teleporting.
Hiyas!
Sounds more like a "fix" than a "nerf" as what you're describing sounds like an exploit.
You shouldn't be able to go under the world or outside the map.
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Hiyas!
Sounds more like a "fix" than a "nerf" as what you're describing sounds like an exploit.
You shouldn't be able to go under the world or outside the map.
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And if you'd been paying attention, you'd have understood that my complaint wasn't with my inability to teleport outside of the map bounds (though, as I said before, it did help with a bugged mission where one of the objectives was outside of the map, floating in the void, and the only other way to clear it would be to call a GM, and we know how effective that is *now*), but rather with my inability to teleport to valid spots on the map that are through walls.
As it happens, I've found a sort-of-fix, but I won't elaborate. I have also seen at least one case where the "fix" prevented me from teleporting to a VALID location, where I clicked and the teleport was cancelled as if I was using a look-through-walls trick, even though the camera was in a perfectly normal positon.
It's not so obvious to the average gamer, but as someone who had truly unlocked the versatility of teleport, it's effectiveness has been drastically reduced.
Maybe it was considered a bugfix. However, using the cam_dist command, I was able to effectively teleport through walls. This made many things, including the Perez Park maze and navigating Dark Astoria, much simpler. Now, suddenly, I can't do that anymore.
A lot of people are going to tell me that this is an exploit and that it needed to be fixed. I could possibly accept that, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT ENEMY TELEPORTS COULD AND STILL CAN TELEPORT IN JUST THAT FASHION.
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded a fix that prevented teleporters from landing in spots that shouldn't be accessable at all (though pre-patch I did enjoy flying around to the OTHER side of the force-fields and one time the technique saved me when a mission objective spawned OUTSIDE of the map), however I don't that suddenly I can't teleport into an accessable room right after a Tsoo Sorceror or a Rikti soldier does just that. If villian teleporters were required to teleport only within their own LoS, I wouldn't have such a problem, but when they can teleport to locations that I cannot reach when standing in the exact same position, I get a little cranky.
Ironically, the trick where I learned to utilize cam_dist, getting under the floor in Atlas Plaza City Hall, still works. I can get under that transparent floor. I just can't do anything remotely useful beyond that.