Brawl

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lets say for example that no other AT other than MM can solo an AV even with inspirations, that just further emphasizes the initial point. You aren't seeing the forest because of that one small-insignificant-not-really-a-tree-more-like-a-shrub that you are so insanely focused on.

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Why use as an example something that is nowhere near the truth? There are a number of Blue side combos out there that can solo specific AVs and a smaller number that can do the same with a wide range of AVs. Then you throw in the two readily available Elite Boss pets and "soloing" AVs/Heroes is pretty much open to 90% of the game's AT combos. The game has moved far beyond where soloing AVs was a taboo to be nerfed to oblivion.

I assume the following is the forest I'm missing for the trees:

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This reminds me of the posts we used to make for scrappers and controllers. Crap, here comes the nerf for MM's.

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You are so caught up in your perceived past injustices that you cannot see that the dev team have an entirely different emphasis than they did back when the AV-killer inspired nerfs (if there ever really were any) dropped. What history we have with the "new" NCNC dev team strongly suggests that performance is no longer measured by single accomplishments (Statesman, "Oh noes, the players are beating our hardest content. Geko, make it not so by the most painful, illogical nerfs possible."), but are instead being determined by aggregate data analysis, specifically (and probably overly simplified) inter-AT comparison of experience gain rates (i.e. the Blaster changes and hints of what may be done to Stalkers).

The devs play the game. They know as well as us what each AT is capable of. Threads like this are not going to surprise them or somehow shock them into wielding the nerf bat.

Ultimus, keep us up to date on your progress. I, for one, like to see the peak of what we can do.

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you know what, just stop reading my posts, you obviously can't see the point and are too focused on a minor detail. just stop.

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Just as a note, I'm sure that there ARE Defender and Tanker builds that CAN solo many AVs without the use of inspirations. And a lot more with the reasonably fair caveat that the Defender may use Break Frees (only) since unlike MMs, Scrappers, and Tankers, they don't have both offense and status protection available.

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I still think it is build and AV specific. I looked over the Tanker forums and found no mention of soloing AVs. (Didn't even try the Defender forums.) Both suffer from the same problem: lack of enough sustained damage to overcome AV's defenses/resistances and regen. Certain Defender combinations can overcome both defenses/resistances and regen with debuffs, but I don't think they do so in sufficient fashion to bring the AV down. I've heard of lots of Defender duos taking down AVs, but never doing them solo.

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Any Fire/x Tank who takes either the Ice or the Fire epic pools can Immob an AV in their Burn patch, for starters. With IO set bonuses you can get a Burn patch down permanently, and you get Healing Flames up every 15 seconds or so for a huge heal. Perma-Burn will allow the Tank to trivially beat the AV's regen rate (easier if it's a Fire/SS tank so that Burn gets the Rage bonus). Granted, all that's assuming some nice IO bonuses, but that's a reasonable assumption when we're talking high-difficulty tasks.

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Are you sure that Burn alone can beat an AV's regen rates after accounting for defenses/resistances? Tankers can put out some mean damage but without debuffs a lot of that damage is going to be lost.

Also, can a single Immobilized from the epic pools really lock down an AV? That is a lot of loss damage if you are continually spamming the power, which is the only way it's going to work. Working on my experience with Web Grenade, which has the same magnitude and duration as the Fire epic Char, very few AVs are immobilized with less than three or four applications and that is with a fully slotted power.

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Oh, and a well-IO'd Ice Tank or SR Scrapper can have the AV permanently floored at their To-Hit floor.

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The problem is not survivability, the problem is sustained damage output. Even with a full Inspiration payload, I am not sure Defenders and Tankers, in general, are able to his solo a wide variety of AVs, but I'd also say that about most Scrapper combinations and quite a few Mastermind combinations.

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MMs are not alone. They're probably among the easier AV soloers, but they're not alone.

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I was never making the argument that Masterminds were alone, but of all the combinations that can consistently solo a range of AVs, I think that /Traps, /Poison, and /Dark create the most viable AV/Hero killer combos than any other AT. Again, I am talking about the ability to defeat a range of different AVs/Heroes, not any specific AV/Hero - Primary/Secondary combination.

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lets say for example that no other AT other than MM can solo an AV even with inspirations, that just further emphasizes the initial point. You aren't seeing the forest because of that one small-insignificant-not-really-a-tree-more-like-a-shrub that you are so insanely focused on.

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So, what's the strategy here? Web Grenades to keep the AV in your Poison Trap and Caltrops, Robots with the Assault Bot's -Regen just spamming their attacks from outside of melee range, and veteran attacks? With purple insps to try to keep you alive during this?

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easiest way i've found is to just place your pets out of AOE range, and just stand toe to toe with the A/V taunting them, and trapping.

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Well, at least as of the Back Alley Brawler fight there, all 18 of the 18 powers he'd have at level 33 are visible accounted for, and none of them taunts. So how to make sure the AV stays on him?

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you can get taunt from the power pool. I personally took provoke, but basically you need to find a way to make the AV hate you more than your pets.

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So, what's the strategy here? Web Grenades to keep the AV in your Poison Trap and Caltrops, Robots with the Assault Bot's -Regen just spamming their attacks from outside of melee range, and veteran attacks? With purple insps to try to keep you alive during this?

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easiest way i've found is to just place your pets out of AOE range, and just stand toe to toe with the A/V taunting them, and trapping.

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Insps are fair game in the AV world.

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any AT could solo an AV with enough inspirations, I'm talking about Soloing them without inspirations, which is what was possible with controllers and scrappers.

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I'm not sure Blasters, Defenders, or Tankers on the Blue side or everything but MMs on the Red side could solo AVs with the 20 Inspirations you can bring to a given fight. I know you said "with enough" Inspirations, but given the fact that a solo character is capped at 20, that is what we should consider. There is no "I win - Infinite Inspirations" button, after all.

Given the difficulty of soloing AVs, I have zero problems with Inspiration use. Using Inspirations to defeat AVs takes nothing away from the MM even if Trollers and Scrappers can do it without them.

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You aren't sure, so you have nothing concrete to base that statement on. The point is that inspiratiosn take you beyond what your powersets can do, which is why so many people had problems with scrappers and controllers being able to solo AV's without inspirations. Now can you tell me that you can't solo an AV without an inspiration with a well built MM? I know I can. I don't want MM's nerfed, which is why I don't post threads about AV's being solo'ed.

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Okay, how about I rephrase things so that they are not quite so passive, since the passive voice seems to have lost you. Unless they use temporary powers (i.e. Shivans and/or HVASes), no Blaster, Defender, or Tanker can solo AVs/Hs with or without the use of Inspirations. Blasters do not have the defenses to survive an AV/H long enough to do the damage necessary to bring one down, and Defenders and Tankers do not have the damage output to overcome an AV's/H's regeneration and defenses. (Caveat: There may be particular Defender or Tanker builds that could achieve a particular solo AV/H kill, but that is the exception, not the norm.)

I am not as familiar with the Red side ATs as I am with the Blue side, but I am fairly confident, not 100% so, but confident enough to say Brutes, Corrupters, Dominators, and Stalkers are incapable of soloing an AV/H. (Same caveat above applies here.)

We have inconvertible proof that Masterminds are fully capable of soloing AVs/Hs, with and without Inspirations. The point I was trying to make is that there is nothing inherently wrong, unfair, or accomplishment-negating about using Inspirations when you take down an AV. Most of the Scrapper videos I have seen make liberal use of Inspirations, especially purples and reds. Use of temporary powers (again Shivans and HVASes) has always been the defining factor, not Inspiration use.

Now, do I think it is dangerous for players to post tales of soloing AVs/Hs for fear that it will lead to developer attention? In the old days, probably. But experience with the recent Blaster changes leads me to believe that the developers are looking at other metrics than the simple ability to solo the hardest content in the game. If Masterminds are gaining experience at a far faster rate with far less debt than the rest of the ATs, then I think we will be in trouble. If the performance gap is too large, the Nerf bat likely will be coming our way. Threads like this will not be the determining factor, however.

I have not tried, but I am unsure whether I could solo an AV/H. That has more to do with the fact that I play with a physical disability (paralysis from the chest down from a spinal cord injury) than from skill or build design competence. I basically play with the index finger on one hand. Your tone suggest you believe yourself to be an expert ("I know I can [solo an AV without an inspiration]."). Try taking on an AV/H with the constraints I play under and let me know how you do.

I'm running the 45+ content on my Thugs/Poison right now. I always run on the fourth difficulty level (spacing on the name). I have Indigo in my queue right now. Perhaps I'll bump it up to Relentless and give it a try. I will let you know how things turn out.

Addendum: I was able to defeat Indigo as a Hero. Indeed, she was easier than may EBs I have fought recently. Now I am going to have to try more AV/Heroes. Fun stuff.

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still leads me to believe that what you are saying is oppinion, am i right?
still you are arguing something that is not important to the point what so ever. but by all means keep arguing. I don't know why you brought up personal information of which has no relevance at all to this discussion. but you proved my point, we can take on AV's without inspirations, which is what other AT's were able to do... before getting nerfed.

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Insps are fair game in the AV world.

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any AT could solo an AV with enough inspirations, I'm talking about Soloing them without inspirations, which is what was possible with controllers and scrappers.

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I'm not sure Blasters, Defenders, or Tankers on the Blue side or everything but MMs on the Red side could solo AVs with the 20 Inspirations you can bring to a given fight. I know you said "with enough" Inspirations, but given the fact that a solo character is capped at 20, that is what we should consider. There is no "I win - Infinite Inspirations" button, after all.

Given the difficulty of soloing AVs, I have zero problems with Inspiration use. Using Inspirations to defeat AVs takes nothing away from the MM even if Trollers and Scrappers can do it without them.

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You aren't sure, so you have nothing concrete to base that statement on. The point is that inspiratiosn take you beyond what your powersets can do, which is why so many people had problems with scrappers and controllers being able to solo AV's without inspirations. Now can you tell me that you can't solo an AV without an inspiration with a well built MM? I know I can. I don't want MM's nerfed, which is why I don't post threads about AV's being solo'ed.

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Insps are fair game in the AV world.

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any AT could solo an AV with enough inspirations, I'm talking about Soloing them without inspirations, which is what was possible with controllers and scrappers.

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Used to make those posts? They still do. Anyways, gratz Ultimas!

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theres no way my Scrapper would solo AV's, even with all the best IO's. And I mean without having to rely on inspirations.

This reminds me of the posts we used to make for scrappers and controllers. Crap, here comes the nerf for MM's.

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Yeah its amazing, our 4th tier PP has a 15 minute recharge! Thats basically the WORST recharge than any pet in the game. That means in a 10 min. Arena match, you'll be able to summon the pet twice. And thats only if you have 3 recharge in it.

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Actually isn't 15 minute recharge the longest recharge of any power in the entire game?

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Longbow Nullifiers do not have any such power. They do not have any attacks that remove buffs or any detoggle effects.

High level Longbow Spec Ops have EMP Grenade that drains a lot of Endurance which might have been what you experienced. They've killed me by draining my remaining Endurance which turned off Granite Armor. They're minions though so they're easily killed and should be dealt with immediately.

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click here please

4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.

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Interesting, so slotting endo reducers will actually reduce the amount of endo your pets use when shooting their lasers and stuff? Not that it matters, but that's not what I expected, I only wanted to reduce what I pay for the initial summon.

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Whoa! Seconded. Positron, is this the case? Do end reducers not lower the endurance cost of the summon powers themselves?

I was really excited at the prospect of not needing Stamina. I hope Endurance Reducers work like they do in our other powers.

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ah trust me, you most likely wont need stamina anyway, most of the time your MM will have a full bar of endurance.

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Since they are gifted with Hurdle automatically,

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haha, i wish i could have access to that form of hurdle. i've seen enemies jump literally 75 up and over a wall when stunned.

The dev's worked hard to remove farming missions for XP in COH.

and they replaced it with the need to farm for prestige for bases in COH/V. good job!

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So, right now on live our robots are actually more powerful non-upgraded than upgraded?

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no

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I don't mind one quicksand patch, but when they stack 6 of them in one spot, that's brutal.

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SIX?! I should be so lucky. Want the screenie I took of me, trying to plow through 15? Painful.

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post it now!

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What makes you think you've seen the Crab Spider models?

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you sir, are pure evil.

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I just wanted to take a moment to let you know that those pages are a preview and the text is not final.
The Hellions/Outcasts error and the repeated text bubbles will be fixed for the final version.

Cheers,
Manticore

PS Brawl is dead on about Sister Psyche.

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It's always nice to have a dev confirm what you say

then again he could just be agreeing with me out of fear of me knocking his toggles off.

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Also, that AIN'T Sister Psyche. I forgot the name; Estelle? Something? Been mentioned here in General before, some chica from Brazil. Plus the Outcast/Hellion thing.

It doesn't bode well where, in the first issue, you mess up some pretty basic character names like that.

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for the last time IT IS SISTER PSYCHE! the character who is sister psyche in independence port in issue 3 is aurora borealis's body which is inhabited by sister psyches mind. in I4 sister psyche gets her old body back, which is the body you see in the comic.

so the artis got it right, that is sister psyche.

wow.... that looks amazing. im really looking forward to the new issues. i'll still miss our current gang though.

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I think the poster was referring to the fact you can't BOTH spay AND neuter something.l

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You can if its a Hemaphrodite.

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wooohooo happy bday liquidx!

great piece of writing. you deserve 5 stars, hell this deserves a website with pictures to puncuate it.

personally im Scrappus Devastatus, i soloed 95% and duoed some as well. although i have teamed for task forces and trials, but truthfully, i wished i could finish them alone.

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the powers in the blaster melee set were the exact same ones in the tanker secondary set (minus mace, axe, and super strength)


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Want to take that back with the bit on Super Strength?

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huh? what do you mean?

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A question for the really oldbies, if they'd indulge me: what were the power sets like before archetypes? and what powers were in the blaster melee sets?

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the power sets before arch-types is something even I wouldnt know. thats something only the dev's and internal alpha testers could answer.

the powers in the blaster melee set were the exact same ones in the tanker secondary set (minus mace, axe, and super strength)

now my turn.

i remember when mace, and axe were scrapper powers!

I remember when perez park was connected to kings row.

I remember when single origin enhancements dropped at level 1, and i also remember having to delete them because they were useless to my mutant character becuase they were all natural enhancements. I had to delete them because there was still no place to sell enhancements.