Teleport is nerfed.
By
BlindeyeInsight,
Posted on: 2004-09-18 16:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm on Dimensio's side for this one... Frankly, teleport should bring you from where you are to wherever you want to go. I can understand there being a limitation for, maybe, only being able to teleport where you've been before and also to wherever you can see. That would make sense right?
I know the Devs could do it to, where you bring up the map, activate teleport and click on the map and teleport there. Easy. And what about the altitude of the teleport? Also Easy... Make it so that you teleport on the lowest possible standable surface. Hard to program, but possible, and it would make teleport useful.
Dimensio is getting out of teleport what EVERYONE should be able to get out of it, and he has to TRICK the game to do it.
Teleport needs to be made better... Instant Transportation, not light speed bursts in one direction...
Anyway, on the Nightcrawler topic... His paranoia in the movie is just that. I've heard that it's actualy impossible for him to teleport into a solid object and die... Something about the nature of his power prevents that. I've heard theories that he passes into an alternate dimension and then back into ours or something. Anyway...
once again, Devs... Make teleport useful.
The way I see it, the devs should have fixed the bug that lets glowies and mobs spawn behind mission walls first.
Now they've just dramatically increased the number of petitions that'll be sent in for bugged missions and created that much more work for their GM's.
No longer can you get your TP'ing friend to help clear your bugged mission. Seems a shame.
I have never once used teleport self to get anywhere I shouldn't be able to go. Regardess, this recent change has made my teleport use much more difficult.
It seems most of the issues are when trying to port with a ceiling as a destination. THis used to work great, and was essential for getting around certain maps, to get ofer railings or up to various cave levels.
If there were a way to port into midair a very short distance (10-30 feet or so), this would relieve the need to port to ceiling destinations, but if the camera angle makes it so that I can't see the floor of where I want to go, I can't go there without porting to the celining above, which is now often impossible.
I'll have to try playing with camera distance, but if this is the required solution, it further weakens the usefulness of this power in crisis mode -- it will take too long to get to where I am going to provide any useful emergency response.
There's got to be a different solution that lets this power be more useful without providing the ability to go where we should not.
Here ya go: (you've activated the teleport power)
If mouse is over the game window (viewport), then work as currently implemented.
If mouse is over the MAP, teleport to that location (can be anywhere on an explored area of the map) to the highest occupiable, level surface. Consume endurance proportional to the distance traveled (anything over, say, half a mile drains all endurance). And make the hero intangible for a time proportional to the distance traveled (anything over half a mile, intangible for 30 seconds).
The distances, end cosumption, and intangible duration would of course be subject to tuning/tweaking (and enhancements).
This version of teleport would make me seriously weigh it against the other travel powers.
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Here ya go: (you've activated the teleport power)
If mouse is over the game window (viewport), then work as currently implemented.
If mouse is over the MAP, teleport to that location (can be anywhere on an explored area of the map) to the highest occupiable, level surface. Consume endurance proportional to the distance traveled (anything over, say, half a mile drains all endurance). And make the hero intangible for a time proportional to the distance traveled (anything over half a mile, intangible for 30 seconds).
The distances and end cosumption would of course be subject to tuning/tweaking.
This version of teleport would make me seriously weigh it against the other travel powers.
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You have to remember that the map is a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimenional environment. You can't use the map to specify where you want to teleport to exactly, altitude would be ambigious.
If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
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to the highest occupiable, level surface.
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You have to remember that the map is a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimenional environment. You can't use the map to specify where you want to teleport to exactly, altitude would be ambigious.
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Miss something?
Heh, that's what you get for skimming. Anyway, to the original poster, why would you not share something in a dev viewable forum if the item in question is not an exploit? Just curious.
If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
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BUT if it gets nerfed "too bad.. so sorry! Want some whine with that cheese?"
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Wow, you must be at least level 30 in the Arrogant [censored] class.
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It is amazing how one person can take one line out of someone's post to manipulate itto their own ends. The curse of forums.
Am I being arrogant because I spoke my mind about people complaining about changes to their powers?
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No, you are arrogant because you are arrogant. The opinion had nothing to do with that.
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Who really likes listening to this: "They nerfed (insert name of power here) and I no longer can exploit the game" over and over?
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Except nobody says that. Some people complain about the ridiculous large exp requirements. (Sure, not a problem if you have no life and are on 20 hours a day)
Camdist is a command that is part of the game, its listed in the help file. And if you have a mouse with a mousewheel you can just spin that instead of typing in a command.
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"But if it gets nerfed "I am sooo sorry, it is the nature of these games for powers to be changed. it is the lumps we all have to bear. I do hope you can get past this to play the game and not be so upset" "
How is that?
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Given your previous comment, i'd say condescending.
People SHOULD complain when they keep change stuff (only to please a little powergaming group who are always on)
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As it happens, I've found a sort-of-fix, but I won't elaborate. I have also seen at least one case where the "fix" prevented me from teleporting to a VALID location, where I clicked and the teleport was cancelled as if I was using a look-through-walls trick, even though the camera was in a perfectly normal positon.
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Spoken like a true exploit artist.. won't elaborate? You mean "won't share" and "don't want to get the other bug I found fixed."
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Most likely, what he is doing is setting cam_dist to a negative value. I just now tested that theory in-game, and it does let you see through buildings. I haven't played with it too much to see just how useful it can be, but it does seem like a neat trick. It also is most likely a range-checking bug on the part of the cam_dist command, which was probably intended to be strictly non-negative.
By the way, the mousewheel only does cam_dist distances from 0-80. I find 100-400 to be very useful distances. For instance, in those cases where you are having trouble teleporting up to the ceiling, set your cam_dist to 200 or so and look down. Then you can just teleport to the ledge that you were trying to teleport above directly.
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No more teleporting under the floor in city hall in Atlas then?
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Actually, that's one of the things that I said I could still do.
What I'm able to do now is mostly the pointless, silly stuff, such as the under the Atlas floor and more commonly (for me) into shops without using the doors. Since that's primarily the reason I liked the teleport tricks in the first place, I no longer have any real problems with the teleport code, except the problem when you try to teleport when there is a chain link fence between your character and the camera (since, unlike with normal walls, the camera won't automatically snap to the other side of a see-through fence).
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Bone Daddies have access to Dark Melee AND Dark Blast.
Behemoths have access to Fire Blast AND Invulnerability.
That's just naming a couple off the top of my head. Really, if you want to argue players should be able to do the same things that villains can, you're talking about a whole lot more than just changing Teleport.
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yeah they have powercombinations we cant get but they should obbey the rules of the game as we should. That means no jumping off caltrops and no porting where we cant port
Maybe they could allow teleporters to use teleport in macros with location coordinates passed like variables to a function...
For example if you just click on the normal teleport power you get what you normally do now but say you could make a macro such as /macro TPup powexec_name teleport 0 +50 0 which when activated automatically moves you up 50 yards, or put actual coordinates in (still have to be in range and cant teleport into objects)
I mean this would require some micro management but there are a lot of spare power slots for macros in the trays and in this way teleport would be a lot more versatile...
The only real problem i can see is with the coordinates themselves....is the first coordinate always east/west or do they change depending on the map...?
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Actually, that's one of the things that I said I could still do.
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How do you do that? I wanna know!
In all honesty.. the only reason I use teleport is for character concept. Otherwise the power makes me ill. I didn't know you could teleport like that though. Honestly teleport needs a boost. If the devs aren't willing to do anything more than remove the transfer of motion then I want to have the useless ability of teleporting out of bounds.. I don't see how this harms anyone.. not like it allows you to do anything other than retreive whatever spawned outside the map in the first place.
I am so getting flamed aren't I?
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In all honesty.. the only reason I use teleport is for character concept. Otherwise the power makes me ill.
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Ditto. My character with teleport has superleaping to actually travel with. I only use teleport when I want to take two or three times as long to get someplace and arrive without any endurance at all. I dunno about this porting into the floors trick and I don't know that I'd ever use it, but I wish teleport was useful in some slight manner.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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In all honesty.. the only reason I use teleport is for character concept. Otherwise the power makes me ill.
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Ditto. My character with teleport has superleaping to actually travel with. I only use teleport when I want to take two or three times as long to get someplace and arrive without any endurance at all. I dunno about this porting into the floors trick and I don't know that I'd ever use it, but I wish teleport was useful in some slight manner.
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Hmm, that's odd. I can beat almost anybody to any location (within two miles if I have PFF up) with teleport. It's accurate, it's fast, and it only has one end reduction slotted in it. What power are you using?
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Why should the Mobs be subject to the same rules as players?
Honestly?
If you went head to head with your build at your level but it was a computer controlled Mob you *should* win. The only reason you wouldn't is because you're bad at using your character's build. The computer can't "think outside the box". It can't react in realistic intelligent ways and it can't learn.
So unless you want a game that offers Zero challenge you need to learn to accept the fact that the computer can do things you can't.
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Being a bit tired of reading that kind of thing I'll try to answer :
- computers always know where everything around them is, including foes and obstacles. No constant mouselooking to keep track/look for them.
- they don't have to check their life/endurance for they know at what point they are and can use inspirations accordingly
- they don't have to find why they suddenly can't run or recharge slowlier
- they don't lose time to physically push keys : they think about what they'd like to do and it's done
- as dumb as their AI can be, their decisions are executed and chained faster than a blink of an eye
- they don't have to make sure the power they want to use has recharged, they just know it has/hasn't
- sometimes we can be fighting a big group of baddies and one of them will flee because we forgot him. A computer won't forget how many people it had aggroed.
- they don't wake up stunned/asleep opponents
- when they are stunned/asleep they don't need to bash a key continuously to use a power, they just know when they can do it as soon as it happens
- they don't hesitate, ie. no "errr wait ... what if .. no .. WTH ?!? where is that ... ouch where did this come from ?"
So, still wanna cry about that "poor stupid AI" ?? 
the problem was teleport could do it anyway legally. there are still ways to get outside the map, just very hard now, I've tested it post issue 2. just uber hard. now, teleporting outside geometry and sniping enemies usually turned up an invalid target, and didn't work. they'd also run 10 seconds after they couldn't target or get to you, and, some would run through geometry bugs, and fall off the map utterlly out of sight. the fix was not really needed, and I liked hopping from stores and whatnot, it was fun and different. if anything teleport was less troublesome then because of awkward targetting problems now.
~Draco
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Hmm, that's odd. I can beat almost anybody to any location (within two miles if I have PFF up) with teleport. It's accurate, it's fast, and it only has one end reduction slotted in it. What power are you using?
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It's not accurate. You have to target a point and apparently unless you can code crack to move your camera to illegal places that means porting into the air and then moving your view and trying to port again to your landing spot before you fall out of sight and have to do it again. Sure, I can teleport 100yrds away, but not 30yrds up and 10yrds over to get at a good spot to snipe safely from.
I didn't know they took away the ability to port onto the "bottom of the cieling" but if that is true then they've just made things worse. Like the other guy, I used to target spots on the cieling just above the beam or box I wanted to land on.
I haven't put in any end reducers because I haven't wasted any enhancements slots on teleport. My first enhance went to distance and I was greatly dissapointed to find my 98yrd unenhanced port had become a 103yrd enhanced teleport. Yah, that's a big deal, I'm really racing the guy with superleap now. With the same character, and superleap with no range enhances I can jump 98yrds. And there's no pause while hovering in the air and trying to target in the direction I want to go.
Don't even get me started about trying to change directions when I find out one of my friends needs help due to an ambush on their way to the store.
Anyways, three or four teleports takes away more than half of my endurance. With my various characters I can fly, run at superspeed and superleap and recover endurance with each one at the same time. With fly, superleap and superspeed I have one slot end reduced and stamina. Now the same character has superleap and teleport and there is no way I could equal out their end cost without putting three or four end reducers into teleport.
Unless they've made some change on the end cost with "Issue Two" then teleport's endurance drain is so cost prohibitave that I'm surprised anyone uses it at all. I deleted my porter about a month ago to try and redo her and haven't gotten teleport again because I figure'd I'd save it for the mid 20s where there's no powers I really want from my powersets.
I had the one blaster who could teleport. What should be (and in my imagination still is) one of the coolest powers became basically a special effect using up one of my slots. When I was on a mission and "writing the story in my head" as I go, I explained the hop-down-the-elevator trick as she teleported out of sight and the thugs couldn't find her instead of it being that the bad guys obviously don't know how to make an elevator work.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
I did some experimenting with teleport today, and yeah it's not what it was, you can't port on the below surface of a ceiling and (what used to my fun pastime) you can't break through geometry anymore.
The last one was actually the sellingpoint for the power to me; it's very very costly (endurance wise) and there fore quite dangerous, and unless you take hover aswell, you can't hunt with it at all. When I get to respec, I might just skip it, and go for flying.
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Bone Daddies have access to Dark Melee AND Dark Blast.
Behemoths have access to Fire Blast AND Invulnerability.
That's just naming a couple off the top of my head. Really, if you want to argue players should be able to do the same things that villains can, you're talking about a whole lot more than just changing Teleport.
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yeah they have powercombinations we cant get but they should obbey the rules of the game as we should. That means no jumping off caltrops and no porting where we cant port
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Nope. Villains don't play by the same rules as PC's. Plain and simple. That's just the way it is. We shouldn't argue that 'we should be able to do exploit X because mobs can.' Mobs and PC's operate differently, that's the nature of these games. Also note that:
Villains can't turn on sprint.
Villains don't use inspirations.
Villains don't use build-up.
Villains can't 'taunt' heroes.
Villains can't, as far as I know, use teleport foe.
Villains don't have access to invisibility, smoke, or any other stealth type powers.
Villains, though accessing powers out-of-level, generally don't have as many powers at that level as heroes. (e.g. a level 30 villain does not have 17 powers like we do)
Villains break the law. From their perspective, so do we.
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- computers always know where everything around them is, including foes and obstacles. No constant mouselooking to keep track/look for them.
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Most villains other than snipers, have a vision distance of maybe...20 yards.
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- they don't have to check their life/endurance for they know at what point they are and can use inspirations accordingly
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Villains can't use inspirations.
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It's not accurate. You have to target a point and apparently unless you can code crack to move your camera to illegal places that means porting into the air and then moving your view and trying to port again to your landing spot before you fall out of sight and have to do it again. Sure, I can teleport 100yrds away, but not 30yrds up and 10yrds over to get at a good spot to snipe safely from.
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Not much of a code crack to set /cam_dist to 100 ft, look down at yourself, and accurately select that perfect sniping point. Most of the time you wouldn't even have to use /cam_dist directly at all, just mousewheel back to 80 ft and do the same.
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Cheating is going out of bounds. I used to do that, but I only did it for a laugh, not to complete a mission (except for the one time when I *HAD* to go out of bounds because the Freak firebomb was put there)
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So, what you're saying is, you didn't cheat ... EXCEPT WHEN YOU DID CHEAT. Oh, and that one time when you cheated to finish a mission?
Interesting.
Seems like you answered your own question as to how you were using the power to cheat.
Now that the power's been fixed, you no longer can cheat that way. Seems like the fix did its job.
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You're right. Next time I simply won't be able to complete the mission at all.
I guess that the devs making missions completely and totally unwinnable is a good thing?
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No, the devs didn't MAKE the mission unbeatable is a bug.
You going outside the geometry to get it, is also a BUG.
Both should be fixed. One was been already. Get TP Foe.
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The thing that should have us all upset is that stealth nerfing is still rampant in COH after we were promised that all game changes would be addressed in the updates.
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Oh go wok on finding out who shot Kenedy!
This was a BUG fix. Not a stealth anything.
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A lot of people are going to tell me that this is an exploit and that it needed to be fixed. I could possibly accept that, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT ENEMY TELEPORTS COULD AND STILL CAN TELEPORT IN JUST THAT FASHION.
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It is totally annoying when a Sorcerer teleports halfway across the mission through a dozen walls. But then, you have villains running around with L32 powers at L8, too.
Teleport is the least of the iniquities.