CocoT2

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I realize that the idea is to keep some one from joining a pick up TF as an exemplar and then un-RSKing and running amuck so he can get his badge and screw over his team mates. But let's not punish the good people because of the actions of a few. Punish them. Ban them. Whatever.

Personally, as a side note, if the devs can't trust players to not grief as an exemplar how can they trust players to not grief in PvP?



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You NEVER trust society to do anything but what's in its best interest.

And players WILL take advantage of every potential advantage you give them. It's simple human nature.

That said, I'd be in favor of a 1 minute Exemplar timer... where it takes 60 seconds to completely UnRSK. If your partner goes afk, you have 60 seconds to get a new RSK. With this system, they can of course allow UnRSKing in TFs... But if your minute timer ellapses and you finish RSKing, you're dropped from the TF as designed.


This would ultimately kill the whole, UnRSKing to save your team strategy, but thats a gimp strategy to begin with.... but like I said, players will take advantage of any advantage you give them... and then try to pass it off as strategy.

This whole thing is a little tilted!

Yes, the mobs in the hollows are harder to kill than say, PP.

But the exp is <UCH better as well.

I died 6 times in the hollows and well withing 1/2 an hour after finding a decent group to run with had recovered all debt + a good chunk of exp. This is at L11.

So yes, it is much harder but the reward is in sync with the risk. You can always go solo entire groups and bosses in PP if thats more your speed.

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The thing that should have us all upset is that stealth nerfing is still rampant in COH after we were promised that all game changes would be addressed in the updates.

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Oh go wok on finding out who shot Kenedy!

This was a BUG fix. Not a stealth anything.

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Cheating is going out of bounds. I used to do that, but I only did it for a laugh, not to complete a mission (except for the one time when I *HAD* to go out of bounds because the Freak firebomb was put there)

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So, what you're saying is, you didn't cheat ... EXCEPT WHEN YOU DID CHEAT. Oh, and that one time when you cheated to finish a mission?

Interesting.

Seems like you answered your own question as to how you were using the power to cheat.

Now that the power's been fixed, you no longer can cheat that way. Seems like the fix did its job.

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You're right. Next time I simply won't be able to complete the mission at all.

I guess that the devs making missions completely and totally unwinnable is a good thing?

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No, the devs didn't MAKE the mission unbeatable is a bug.

You going outside the geometry to get it, is also a BUG.

Both should be fixed. One was been already. Get TP Foe.

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Yes, AOE damage is an issue. We're still looking at ways to solve this. So no changes are imminent.

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Well if my AoE cannot kill it in one volley I'm not using it. So you might as well take AoE out of the game entirely. A blaster using AoE that will not kill in 1 volley is just asking for debt. The lowest hit point AT drawing the aggro of every single mob, yeah sounds like a great idea.

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Thank you for proving the point.

You have no clue how to play your AT or how the AT is supposed to fit in the game.

If you over nuke, you die! Period... 1 on 1, a blaster will outblast a single foe, thats how it should be... AoE blasters should be just as group oriented as a controller or defender. You regelate yourself to a damage support AT that needs massive tank or controller help to not die...

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After reading this, I sense the meaning of the word "fix" is similar to what we did to our cat.

I'll have to agree that if they dial down the damage, they better dial down the agro. The only defense we really have is to take down the opponent(s).

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Uhm yes and no. Yes, you're SUPPOSED to fear large groups agroing on you. As for defense, you SHOULD die if you try to take on a large mass of villains without help. Your help is your defense, noy your ability to mass wipe entire groups is seconds.

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Pos,

Just killed Babbage in mission with several other high 40's and 50's, no exemplars. None of us received any badge.

As a side note, please do not add any more badges that you get by killing a single-spawning outdoor creature (Kraken, Adamaster). It screams "I HATE EVERQUEST" in burning lights in the sky. You want kill stealing, mad players all hunting in one area trying to crush the spirits of each over a single creature? Keep CoH unique and fresh....please don't use this horrible, terrible design method

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Babbage or Psychic Babbage (two different beasts)?

As for the kill stealing... several groups can get "badge credit" off one monster... just like several heroes can get defeat credit off one villain.

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I was killing the kraken and a blaster ks'd me. I got the first blow, and dealt a sizable chunk of damage. He got the badge, I didnt. We were both about 15 levels over the monster (I'm 27, he was 29ish). Perhaps the badge is only awarded to multiple groups if they get exp from the kill, and awarded to the person who deals the majority if no exp is gained?

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Badges aren't based on exp. I saw 3 or 4 groups killing the Kraken plus 2 L24s that were there for the badge specifically. They'd all gotten it down to 20% exp when I inadvertently wacked it and killed it.... Everyone there got badges including the L24 defender that was shocked becasue they hadn't done a tremendous amount of damage...

Not sure exactly what the mechanics are, but Kracken gives out badges to just about anyone that participates in the combat... and on top of that it was popping up every 5 - 10 minutes that day, so I saw it 3 or 4 more times in the hour I was hanging out there.

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just enough damage so that a team leader can feel good about choose a Tanker or over a Scrapper... Tanks are happy and Scrappers are happy - this is how it's SUPPOSED TO BE DONE IMO...

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And thus, an new problem surfaces.
WHY in the world take a Scrapper, when a Tanker can:

A: Survive longer, higher HPs and defenses than Scrapper = less worries for Defenders and other teammates.
B: TANK. They keep the aggro off of the other players easily with the upcoming changes.
C: Have decent damage, not quite as high as Scrappers, supposedly, but it's still decent. Small tradeoff for your team's safety.

Why would anyone want a weak Scrapper with lower damage than a blaster, when they could pick up a Tank, and keep themselves safe?

Criticals? Nah, an occasional chance to do higher damage is nothing compared to a blaster's consistantly higher overall damage.

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Well, scrappers ARE SUPPOSED TO BE solo proficient. Thats the big upside to being a scrapper. The downside is they don't have as pronounced a role in groups.

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Even if experience is increased ALOT for minions, leveling will not be fun just killing pack of three minions after three minions.

Yet another poor choice by the devs.

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What if they just renamed minions, "Micro Ubber Gods", would that make you feel better?

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Simple, one word.
Marketing.

If they don't create something that doesnt fly with its consumers, then they're doomed to failure.
That's why you see so many fast food commercials, toy commercials, ads, EVERYWHERE.

Companies listen to complaints, and from there, they will adjust the product accordingly.
They also conform to certain trends in the market. I.E, the whole "Low Carb" BS. Just about every top-10 fast food chain has low carb options. And it spans beyond just fast food.

Marketing is the keyword.
If CoH pisses off their market, they have no more income, and no more game.
THAT'S why the listen to their players.

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Wow you're naive.

No, I'm an executive for a software company. We listen to customer feedback. We analyze customer's actions. We do polls and studies. WE DO NOT BEND TO THE WILL OF ANY 1 CUSTOMER OR GROUP OF CUSTOMERS. If you can't tell the difference, that's your problem.

See I have the perspective of actually judging your actions, not your words. In the world of marketing that's what really matters! I can also judge the needs and actions of all 100,000 of my customers, vs the 1 person who knows what "THEY" want, and generalize that it must be what everyone else wants. That's seldom true.

Consumers don't design jack. They lack the skill, simple as that. I'm a pretty bright guy, but I don't tell my doctor how to perform surgery, no matter how much I think I know my body. Ultimately, I've got to trust the guy who spent 10 years honing his art.

Now, if this was a corporate project where I was paying someone 6-7 + figures... Yeah I do participate in the design process then. Hell I get the final say so then.... But $10 a month is NOT the same as $200/hour for labor alone.

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I don't think that game would be as much FUN as the one I got at release.

It might be better to set ego aside, look at how your players WANT to play the game (not at how YOU want them to play it), and build content/design around that.

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Okay, my laughter died down so I could read on, and then started back up right here!

So, YOU don't think that game would be as much fun as the one YOU got at release, and Statesman should change the way he's doing things because of this?

And then you have the nerve to say "set ego aside." Hahaha. Take your own [censored] advice dude. Plenty of players are perfectly happy to conform to the developers vision and intentions for the game. If we didn't trust them to know how to make a good game, we wouldn't be paying the $15 a month to play it.

What makes you think what YOU want is magically what the "players" want? Every player wants something slightly different. That's why it's imperative that the developers maintain their OWN vision and intent. Otherwise it will end up a soupy mess of "trying to please everyone."

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LOL, I hereby nominate you for fanboy of the month. You've made your feelings known, please dont spam every reply on this thread with your undying devotion to CoH, I'm glad you will play no matter what is done to your hero's.

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This was a reply to Icarus_Facterd. Sorry but he was nominated fanboy of the quarter long ago by almost 60% of the board before the post was most righteously deleted. He is also one of the people to be thanked for the inspiration behind my sig. His blindess is strong, his arguments are weak, and his profile is filled with lies. And he gets very upset with the true definition of his homage.

Sorry I just had to get this off my chest. Thanks I feel better now.

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I don't know Icarus_Facterd, but he looks like he pointed out a valid point. Just cuz some of you selfish school boys don't relize that the world doesn't revolve around your mom and dads house isn't anyones fault but your own. The original quote seems to think that a company that spent a few 10s of millions of dollars to create a product should now turn it over to a bunch of people paying $10 a month?

What kind of crap is that!?

Hey, when YOU put your life savings on the line, and put your life on hold for years on end, and invest blood, sweat, and tears in making your vision come to life, THEN you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

This is Cryptics World and they've been gracious enough to allow us to come play in it. No different that Disney World, or Football Stadium, or a Museum, take your pick.

We pay general admission to enjoy their creation for a 1 month period of time. If we like what we see, maybe we'll keep paying that fee next month. If not we go play in someone elses dream creation.

But none of us really has the right to tell them how to run their show. All we have the right and responsibility to do is give them our individual feedback and allow them to use it to grow the product in the direction they want to grow it.

In all honesty, if Cryptic wanted to pìss off every one of their customers to such a degree that each one would quit in a month... that's their puragative. Afterall, it is still THEIR product!

Go try telling an NFL owner that you're ticked cuz he traded your favorite player and see how fast he laughs at your $12 ticket to the game.

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And a L40 minion is NOT the same as a L1 minion. A L40 minion should compare similarly to a L40 hero the same way a L1 hero does to a L1 hero.

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I respectfully disagree with you Sir..

Lvl 40 minions should not be similarly difficult as they were to you at level 1 otherwise this is just EQ in tights.

IMHO minions should only pose a real threat to Heros in significan't numbers. There has to be a feeling of power in COH other than bottom feeding. I don't find fighting mobs -2 levels to me Heroic at all.

Conversley Bosses should be more difficult though.. After all they are Bosses.

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Hey go play the game! At L1 you CAN wipe through several minions without much effort as long as you don't go underestimating them and get stupid sloppy... Like trying to take on 3 without any endurance!

Everything is relative... I posted this someplace else, but it does help make my point.

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If you take the O-Ren Ishii fight scene from Kill Bill:

O-Ren Ishii would certainly be an AV,
GoGo Yubari would be a Boss,
Johny Mo would be a Lt,
and the rest of the Crazy 88s would all be minions...

Now, were the minions pushovers?
NO Fing way, they were all blade wield martial artists, any of which would have worked over a lesser hero.

They also would have worked over a hero that wasn't at the very top of their game.

Minions aren't going to be a huge threat to anyone or a group that is paying attention, but right now, minions couldn't kill you if you laid down in front of them and held their swords to your throat and said push. THAT is not how is should be.

L40 minions aren't just thugs with bigger guns, they're thugs with bigger guns, more training, and maybe some James Bond techno gadgets thrown in.

Minion is more a frame of reference than anything else. It really can't be taken too far out of context.

For example, at L1, a thug that gets ahold of a taser might be concidered "special". They get the distinction of being called a LT because no other thug at that level has a taser... But by L10 tasers are common yard trash, so that same special feature isn't as defining as it was at L1... Now, it's the villain that can fly and shoot flames out of his butt that is the big boy on the block.

Well the same applies as you go up in level... By the 40s, all the bad guys are shooting high tech weaponry or using some variety of special power... even the minions are tweaked out with gadgetry that allows them to perform at what most would concider "super human" levels. This doesn't make them bosses or AVs, but it does mean that a L40 minion is probably = to a L38 hero and they fights should scale from there.


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I'm not a leveling junkie. I don't street sweep or go around in circles fighting the same set of groups because they give me 20% more XP because of the group size. (Well, maybe I do that once a week).

But with two toons at level 36, it will be impossible to level fighting 3 white minions! (period).

I thought going from 36 to 37 would take forever (and I play 4 hours a day everyday) - forcing me to get same level minion-class XP will just force me to play only alts or skip to another game (ack - can't believe I said that).

Even if you up the reward - this is still a really painful leveling process post 35.

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You'd be suprised what you could do if you didn't focus on it so darn much,

I spent around 2-3 hour just running around doing missions last Saturday. I wasn't even thinging about exp, and look up and I'd gained 2 bubbles in L40... And I wasn't methodically street sweeping, or doing portals, or any of that... just casually running around doing my missions, stweet sweeping when neccessary, chatting with SG at times... etc... I enjoyed the time and hey, the exp was cool to. A few days of that and I'll level, Doing that once a week and I'll level sometime next month... but thats all depending on where I put my time...

That said, there are some nice exp changes on test, and I dare say that my 2-3 hours would have gotten quite a bit more exp if I'd been playing my test char.

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Now here's the kicker: at the pace I'm going, its going to to take me nearly 10 hours to get through this level solo streetsweeping. In my mind, this is already too slow

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And this is the core of the problem.

Some of you come from single player games where you expect to beat the game in 100 hours of playtime...

This aint that genre. 10 hours per level is VERY generous for MMOs and a pace that only gets steeper as you level.

If you don't like that then the genre might not suite you.

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Regardless, it is way too extreme. The ONE thing in this game which was comic book like in this game was wading through even level minions--once I was in my thirties, of course.

Don't take that away! A "minion" shouldn't be the same problem for a 30th level characer--and certianly not for a 40th level character--as it is for a 1st.

By all means, tone down our ability to solo +4 bosses. But don't remove the very real sense that our powers are increasing.

Otherwise, I will feel as wimpy at 50th as I do at 1st. I just have more powers to feel wimpy with.


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Ok I disagree whole heartedly with what you people call heroic!

You don't want heroes you want gods. This aint that game.

And a L40 minion is NOT the same as a L1 minion. A L40 minion should compare similarly to a L40 hero the same way a L1 hero does to a L1 hero. Minion is simply their status in their organization. A L40 anything is still L40 tough, minions just don't have as many special powers, so they "should" be easier compared to an enhanced super hero. But thats doesn't mean you should be "wading through them". If you want to wade through stuff, you should be wading through -2 level minions.

And if you wade through something, you SHOULD NOT be getting great exp for that. Anything you can 1 shot or kill without risk should net you negligable exp at best.

Heroism is about overcoming odds, not stacking them in your favor them showing your *** when you "win". You people make heroism seem tritte and insignificant!

Brother_Devil, your post is twisted.

Super heroes are heroes becasue the fight against insermountable odds... Spiderman wouldn't be much of a hero if all he could do was beat up street thugs.

So yeah, REAl heros will get their butts handed to them on occation. REAL heroes will fight against foes that are as powerful or MORE powerful than themselves.

If you "feel" like a superhero, then you aren't being one. Superheroes aren't herioc until after the deed is done. Like I said, there's nothing heroic about using super powers to pick on street thugs that aren't any threat to you... Thats called being a super bully.

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Nice post, States. But...

If I'm supposed to be challenjed by 3 white minions, Why do i have to face 5-9 at once in a solo mission? And why are they (post 30) worth piddling experience if i'm going to risk my life fighting them?

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A single +2 minion should be REALLY hard - a single -2 minion should be pretty easy.

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So where in that does a +2 Boss fall? Impossible? AV? Instant Death? We're still going to be facing their like in missions, after all. (Rikti changes scare me the most about this - a pair of 31 bosses nailed my 30 hero for about 1000 damage on test. Regeneration scrapper, and yes, with tough and resilience. And yes, i died instantly. Granted, I probably have no business doing 2 red bosses at once, but if i can't even react to their attacks, then they're a wee bit overboard, being only 1 level above me.)

So a +2 minion is going to be a tough fight? god forbid we ever feel like superheroes, eh...



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1. Exp on test has been boosted at least in missions. This should help alot.
2. Same level bosses are easier for some than others....

Your last comment confuses me... and shows your true confusion.

We're heroes.... Heroes are NOT imortal gods.

Fighting a +2 minion SHOULD be difficult. He may be a minion, but they're more experienced than you, which gives them a balancing edge... +2 LTs, Bosses, and AVs are vastly superior than you mano-a-mano, but you're a human being, so damnit use your noodle and outthing the AI. It is doable to a degree... Hell, a same level AV should be a loosing proposition without help. Most AVs beat the crap out of heroes man to man.

For all practical purposes, Doc Oc OWNED Spiderman.

If all else fails, either skip that mission, or go gather a group of like minded heroes to take down your target.

I know some of you closet sociaopaths don't like the idea of actually trying to talk to anyone else in game or in real life, but how heroic is that!?

Even the most stuborn sociophobic heroes needed a hand at some point, and those that didn['t ask for it are probably fertalizing Atlast Park.

Hey, does anyone else find it odd that *** is not on the filter list?

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...the "big *** updates" which currently are on a 2 or 3 month schedule...

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I think the character model choices are fine as they are. Don't nerf my toon's skinny ***!

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You don't know what you're missing!

I'd love to see some models with a J-Lo or Janet Jackson sized ***!

The Carnival Illusionist models are a little overboard!

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I'm sure you already know the flip side to your argument, but I'll say it anyway: Yes, all the coverage from a "big ***" update may indeed garner new players, but on the other hand, the lack of updates for several months means you may lose your existing players.

I love CoH, but I want to see new things. To me, that's why I pay a monthly fee - in order to see an ever evolving game. When things get "stale," I lose interest.... and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

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It sounds like they all understand that, but as he said, and I as a developer completely understand, version control is a beatch. Rushing to publish anything live is a blunder waiting to happen. Trying to do partial releases of content is like asking the dentist to anesthysize one side of your mouth, then flip a coin to see which tooth he pulls...

Its really not even close to trivial.

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Im almost positive Cuppajo is female. Some DEV said she somewhere on some post.

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Yep, I read that as well.... But Cupa is a board moderator, not a developer, so does she count?

I must say though, she certainly has taken the Mother Hen meets Catholic Nun approach to board moderation! hehe

I think she's actually done a heII of a job wipiing this place into shape!

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I was soloing the mission against Dr. Vahzilok, only to discover that he healed at too fast a rate for me to take him down solo. I ran outside, shouted out "I've got Dr. Vahzilok alone in here, any one free to help me take him down?", and sure enough I had a handly little team ready to go in in seconds. Very fun for everyone (who doesn't like to take down an arch-villain?) including me. What exactly is the problem again?

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heh, What i did was complete the requirements for the mission before taking on Dr. Vaz. When i discoverred that i couldn't deal damage fast enough to take him, basically a Stalemate, I "Mission Completed" out of there.

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But this is an even worse example by the way... Killing Dr. V is NOT required to finish that mission or arc. He's PURELY optional. All you have to do is tag 10 body bags and you can solo that mission in around 5 minutes using any kind of stealth... Sure you get a nice SO for killing him, but its completely optional.

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This is closer to the spirit of my statement - but the crux here is "decent rate of speed." Some Archetypes do it faster than others. Controllers, and to a degree Defenders & Tankers, solo slowly. That's totally acceptable.

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Totally acceptable? To whom? Not the players.

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To his customers it will be. If its not acceptable to you, then you don't have to be a customer. Its perfectly acceptable for you to find a system you like better.

This isn't a flame, just a fact.

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How you play the game is your choice, the fact that the Devs are making it a challenge again shows that they understand the concept of Risk vs Reward.

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It's not a matter of choice in my case, perhaps I didn't make that clear.

If the game is changed so that I am forced to group, there is no way I can proceed, and that is an issue that concerns me. Challenge is nice, for those who have the time to pursue that challenge.

On the other hand, OPTIONS are better than challenge, because options mean FUN...not to mention the ability for me to play the product.

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Well no you're incorrect. Options does not mean fun.

Fun is completely subjective and there is no way the developers can design something that everyone will concider "fun".

So all they really can do is put a peg on the board and call it challenging... If you like challenging, you'll get it, if you don't like challenging then maybe not...

But really, even after the changes, there are ways for you to get exp from villains 3 levels below you! In CoH ANYBODY can solo and get some exp if they want to. The real issue is that people who group will get more exp in less time... and I personally think that is how it should be.

The real issue is that some people believe that "the ability to solo" means you will achieve the same net resoluts as anyone else through the same efforts as anyone else...

The same is said by "casual" gamers who say CoH isn't casual friendly because they don't get as much as fast as some other people seem to be getting...

So its really not easy to answer the basic question regarding soloability... esp when its asked by someone who hasn't played truly non solo oriented games.

I don't know of a single AT that can't solo a single green mob.... That said, some ATs can solo multiple red mobs... Both of these ATs can solo... Just that one will gain exp and thus levels around 10x faster than the other...

A non solo friendly game... EQ for example, doesn't really allow solo advancement at all for some classes. There is a huge difference between not getting alot of experience soloing, and not being able to solo at all. I think defining soloability in this way makes thinks easier to talk about.