The things Statesman says sometimes.
By
AdHoc,
Posted on: 2004-12-15 19:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
SHould you be able to solo everything. No. Get over it.
Dude, we're talking about bosses here. Bosses should be soloable. Making people get a group to fight bosses (which show up in a majority of missions) is kind of extreme.
If bosses are no longer considered to be "soloable content" and the archetypes are rebalanced to that ideal, then yes, the move is toward forced grouping.
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SHould you be able to solo everything. No. Get over it.
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Let me reply with a statement that blatently accuses you of saying something you did not.
Should you have to team to play the game? No. Get over it.
Well Nozy that came from Statesman's keyboard and I believe everything Statesman says like a good soldier.
Typically, bosses are NOT soloable content for low level controllers. That's true today. In the context of EVERYONE being able to solo their own missions, his reply is not beyond the pale.
If he brought Scrappers down to that standard, I'd start to worry. But I think we're building mountains from molehills here.
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and I believe everything Statesman says like a good soldier.
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LOL 
That makes one of us.
If that is the "new ideal" then the devs have a hell of a lot of nerfing to do. Even the most gimped of power combinations can solo a boss at the higher levels.
To be honest, I needed help with a lot of +1 and duo bosses before this change, so perhaps it's always been a bit towards forced grouping for defenders, controllers, and blasters.
All depends on the class...your build...and how you play it.
I've taken out two bosses at once with a blaster before...solo
But things like that sometimes involve liberal use of inspirations.
Culex's resistance guide
Yes I am sure you have taken out two bosses, I have taken out three tankers with my energy blaster but the point is not where the game is today but where it will be next year.
I'm sure one could street sweep to level 50 without ever fighting a boss. So grouping is not being forced.
EDIT: Remember they are NOT rolling back the increased HP and XP of bosses that is currently on Test.
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About a month ago I made a thread that asked if anyone else saw a trend in the game to get people to group more and solo less to the point of it eventually becoming forced grouping. Some people said yes and some people said no. On test and a few other forums people have talked about changes that make them feel that the game is forcing them to group.
Just recently we get this quote from Statesman.
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You should always be able to do your own missions alone.
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I never, never, never said that. Many missions ARE solo-able. Many aren't. Bosses, Elite Bosses and AV's usually require help. So if you see any of those on a mission, get help!
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So with the previous Statement of Statesman saying that 3 white minions should be equal to one Hero we have the above statement.
Now that Bosses usually require help does anyone see a trend in the game towards forced grouping? 
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Ok - I've followed the development of this game since nearly day 1 way back in 2000. Statesman has been and is consistent about solo'ing. It is possible to take a character from level 1 to 50 without ever grouping, however not all content will be solo'able.
To that effect the following has also remained consistent:
- Not all AT's will be able to solo effectively
- Not all mission will be solo'able
- Task Forces will not be solo'able (although I've heard it being done they are not suppose to be)
- Trials will not be solo'able
- Archvillians will not be solo'able
- Bosses are suppose to be extremely difficult if not impossible to solo
- Lt are suppose to be difficult to solo
- Minions are solo'able (at least supposably up to 3)
- Purple anything are suppose to be extremely difficult to impossible to solo
- Red's are suppose to be extremely difficult to solo
- Orange are suppose to be very difficult to solo
- Yellows are suppose to be difficult to solo
- Whites are an even fight
Depending on your AT your mileage here will very. If your a Regen Scapper you might not need to group at all if avoid certain content. If you choose to play a controller - better expect to group - as I recall in the AT description it says as much.
Nothing that has been said so far equates to forced grouping. If anything it is trying to bring it in line with original intentions.
Yeah.. I think making bosses completely unsoloable is a bit too far.
And that above comment applies (imo) to pre-32 and mind controllers only. Pets of all types make a HUGE difference when it comes to soloing with a controller. Bosses are a joke. Even some AVs can be tackled with some well-thought out strategy.
Anyway, with this new change, I think even tanks and scrappers may have a hard time soloing Bosses... that's a bit too extreme.
It's pretty much always been this way. Not every AT can solo every mission. Some ATs can solo most every mission. Some can only solo a small fraction of missions. Not every AT gains XP at the same rate.
But if you pick and choose missions, I'll bet that every AT can find missions to solo at every level. You just may not see much of the content in the game.
Ferrium - Inv/SS Tanker
Hyperforce - SS/Regen Brute
Member of V for Vengance (Exalted)
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Anyway, with this new change, I think even tanks and scrappers may have a hard time soloing Bosses... that's a bit too extreme.
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Personally I hope they make it that scraps and tanks have a hard time soloing bosses..................as it is right now I can and have taken on 3 Fake Nemesis that are 4 levels above me - and win by myself (with some rest brakes while being beat upon). Something is wrong with that.
I agree. We shouldn't be able to take on multiple bosses. Just one boss should be more than agreeable. Then again, this is only if we're following the 3 white con minions per hero ideal.
As has been noted, Statesman's mention of Bosses is on account of some of the less solo-friendly builds. Scraps, Tanks, some Blasters, and some Defenders are still able to solo bosses just fine. Many controllers, a few defenders, and some blasters, however, cannot. Instead of doing a full breakdown of which builds are less solo-friendly, States used the word usually. Or course, we could just claim he just said "Bosses shoudl NEVER be able to be soloed..."
-Kendal
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Or course, we could just claim he just said "Bosses shoudl NEVER be able to be soloed..."
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Frankly, until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that's exactly what he meant. He put them in the same category with AVs and Monsters! How else are you supposed to interpret that?
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Or course, we could just claim he just said "Bosses shoudl NEVER be able to be soloed..."
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Frankly, until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that's exactly what he meant. He put them in the same category with AVs and Monsters! How else are you supposed to interpret that?
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That AV's and Monsters can Usually be soloed?
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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Or course, we could just claim he just said "Bosses shoudl NEVER be able to be soloed..."
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Frankly, until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that's exactly what he meant. He put them in the same category with AVs and Monsters! How else are you supposed to interpret that?
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As someone not being entirely precise when he speaks?
Seriously - look at the guy's posts. Statesman is one of the least precise guys around. I just assume that every post is prefaced by "More or less, here is kind of what I mean:" and ended with "Or not."
I think he's wise to do that, too - why waste time to be as precise and clear as possible, only to have people (not you, necessarily, just people) completely misinterpret what he wrote because they feel like assigning weight to one thing and not another?
For the record, here's how I interpreted what he wrote:
"For the most part, everyone will be able to solo in some situations. Some builds and ATs more than others. But there are some mobs that can be a challenge - bosses, elite bosses, AV's and monsters - where you'll probably want help. Or not."
That interpretation is based on being more or less familiar with the guy's writing.
Now, if he really does think he's being as clear and unequivocal as possible - then there is a problem...
Well he's clear in what he says, but he uses a lot of generalities. There's nothing wrong with that. You can always find exceptions to the rule, as it's nigh impossible to defend an absolute. But there is a difference between using generalities often, and being unclear.
I don't think he's been unclear at all.
I think this thread would be more appropriately titled:
The things some readers interpret from Statesman's comments. 
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Anyway, with this new change, I think even tanks and scrappers may have a hard time soloing Bosses... that's a bit too extreme.
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Personally I hope they make it that scraps and tanks have a hard time soloing bosses..................as it is right now I can and have taken on 3 Fake Nemesis that are 4 levels above me - and win by myself (with some rest brakes while being beat upon). Something is wrong with that.
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Hrm.. good point.
Personally I think that 3 white con minions = 1 hero is completely idiotic. One of the amazing facts of why CoH is popular is because you dont take on 3 people at a time. Depending on your archetype you can go after packs of 10. And thats what makes it fun. You dont sit there beating on 1 minion for the next 5 minutes. Makes the game have a sense of "[censored] IM GOING AT 99210382019832 MPH", which is better then everquest's "Whack that rat for the next hour"
Bosses being unsoloable is quite stupid if you ask me. Theres no real reason for that. Archvillains and monsters? Yeah, those can be unsoloable, and I'm fine with that. 3 minions = 1 hero? No thank you.
Forced grouping? Maybe we're headed there, and if we reach it? I'm gone. 
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Frankly, until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that's exactly what he meant.
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The absurd part is that you HAVE heard otherwise:
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Bosses, Elite Bosses and AV's usually require help
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and yet you are still determined to ignore it.
-Kendal
About a month ago I made a thread that asked if anyone else saw a trend in the game to get people to group more and solo less to the point of it eventually becoming forced grouping. Some people said yes and some people said no. On test and a few other forums people have talked about changes that make them feel that the game is forcing them to group.
Just recently we get this quote from Statesman.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should always be able to do your own missions alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never, never, never said that. Many missions ARE solo-able. Many aren't. Bosses, Elite Bosses and AV's usually require help. So if you see any of those on a mission, get help!
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So with the previous Statement of Statesman saying that 3 white minions should be equal to one Hero we have the above statement.
Now that Bosses usually require help does anyone see a trend in the game towards forced grouping?