The things Statesman says sometimes.
By
AdHoc,
Posted on: 2004-12-15 19:11 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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With the changes (which *still* haven't been done) to Test regarding minions and LTs, the plan is to leave Bosses, AVs, and Monsters in the "buffed" state. A boss, on live, is challenging to all (challenging includes difficulty and/or time to kill) except to most scrappers and quite a few blasters. Different levels and the inclusion of pets will change that for other ATs.
People *have* to understand that some ATs will be better at certain things and *should* be able to "[Censored]pwn" bosses ON THEIR OWN. Occasionally, this will include the same treatment for a couple of AVs (but not many). Buffing HP, regen, or damage on Bosses, just about guaranteeing that all ATs at any level need a team to take out a boss, is a weak and lazy approach. It hurts way more than anything. 1 boss *should* be basically on par with 1 hero (for most ATs). Some ATs, depending on skill of the player, will need help for that 1 boss. I think that balance is just about there like it is currently on Live.
Soloing AVs and Monsters is a *programming AI* problem....buffing HP, damage, or regen is the easy way out. Better AI and tactics would just about eliminate all ATs from soloing *any* AV or monster. AVs and monsters *should* need multiple heroes tackling the beasts. But drawn out fights because of huge HP and insane regen rates is not the answer.
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This is the most reasonable post I've seen on this topic.
Should you be able to solo everything? Maybe not.
Should you be able to solo every mission your contact assigns you? Yes. Every AT, every mission. Period.
Statesman on forced grouping/solo'ing
Statesman on solo'ing, solo'ing missoins, and the difference of various AT's ability to solo.
Statesman on making the game harder, and why.
Statesman saying he still wants people to be able to solo, and other stuff.
Statesman explains again about making the game harder.
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Darn that pesky research proving your conspiracy theory wrong!
Forced grouping would mean I was back in EQ, where it could take 1min to 3hrs to find a group. Having to find a group, or 1 or 2 other people out of every couple missions to help take down a boss isn't forced grouping. Besides, go to your local contact, stock up on lucks and you shouldn't have much problem anyway.
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I have no friends who play this game. None of my SG was online. I didn't feel much like going out and find random people while the timer is ticking away.
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I wasnt refeering to RL friend that play. I have non other then my husband. Understandable with SG mates not being on. As for not wanting to go find other people to help. That was YOUR CHOICE.
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There would be NO complaining from me if a contact would warn me BEFORE I accept a mission that I will not be able to do it alone. THAT is the beef I have with the current state of this game. Accepting a mission and THEN find out I'll need a team just plain stinks of FORCED GROUPING.
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Your right. The contact SHOULD have told you. But, sometimes you actually have to read, and then re read. Most do, some do not. They are bugs. Send a petition in. But to say that NOTHING should require more then one person is just plain.. well, dull. (Not saying you, specifically are)
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On a side note: I get so f-ing sick and tired of people shouting that this is a MMORPG and that I therefore SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SOLO.
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Well, I havnt seen ONE person that has said you shouldnt be able to solo. What I have seen is people saying there should be LIMITS to what/where and how you should be able to solo.
SHOW me where in that term it actually says I should group! SHOW me and I'll shut up. If you can't, then get off your high horses and shut up. The multi-player part of these games refers to the social aspect. It doesn't mean "you have to group, because this is an MMO". It just means that MULTIPLE players are ONLINE, playing the same game as you.
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I don't mind grouping. I have grouped, and I will group. I just don't always want to, or I don't always have the time to do so. Missions like these REEK of forced grouping. Upping the difficulty even more to the point that bosses become unsoloable REEKS of forced of grouping. Can you avoid bosses? Sure, just street sweep. I want to do missions. There are bosses in missions. Plenty of them. And a lot of them +1.
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Notice, You are getting worked up about SPECULATION. Nothing has happen yet. +1 boses, should be soloable. Indeed. But certin areas and aspects of the game, majorally should require grouping, along with missions. But I do not think missions should be "hidden" with the fact.
One more reason I want a "Refuse Mission" option.
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There would be NO complaining from me if a contact would warn me BEFORE I accept a mission that I will not be able to do it alone. THAT is the beef I have with the current state of this game. Accepting a mission and THEN find out I'll need a team just plain stinks of FORCED GROUPING.
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It has been stated previously by the DEV's that contacts should let you know when a group will be necessary for a mission. If you get on a mission where it does not it is a bug and should be reported as such. It is not an attempt at force grouping just something slipping through the cracks.
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A bug? TWO times in a row? That's not a bug.
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There would be NO complaining from me if a contact would warn me BEFORE I accept a mission that I will not be able to do it alone. THAT is the beef I have with the current state of this game. Accepting a mission and THEN find out I'll need a team just plain stinks of FORCED GROUPING.
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It has been stated previously by the DEV's that contacts should let you know when a group will be necessary for a mission. If you get on a mission where it does not it is a bug and should be reported as such. It is not an attempt at force grouping just something slipping through the cracks.
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A bug? TWO times in a row? That's not a bug.
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They've stated that it shouldn't EVER happen. /Bug it. Over. And over. And over.
That's the only way to get it fixed.
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Well, I havnt seen ONE person that has said you shouldnt be able to solo. What I have seen is people saying there should be LIMITS to what/where and how you should be able to solo.
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There already are limits. They're called Taskforces. I accept that. I am talking about regular missions given to me by regular contacts. Statesman himself claims these should always be soloable. But yet, they are not, apparently.
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But, sometimes you actually have to read, and then re read. Most do, some do not. They are bugs. Send a petition in.
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I read. I read every word and every line. These were two missions given to me one after another by the same contact. The part about needing others did not pop up until AFTER I accepted the missions. In fact, my contact didn't tell me anything about needing more people on the bomb mission. It just said to diffuse 3 bombs. As soon as I entered the (again, timed) mission, the objective read: diffuse 3 bombs simultaneously. And again, I refuse to believe that these are bugs. A bug is something that happened occasionally. Not 2 times in a row. Furthermore, missions like these, and stealth timed missions for instance, have been petitioned for months, but they're STILL in the game. A bug? Don't think so. Intentional? Looks like it.
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Notice, You are getting worked up about SPECULATION. Nothing has happen yet.
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I agree that this is till on test and therefore a non-issue when it comes to live. But the mere fact that they are actually testing it does mean something.
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It has been stated previously by the DEV's that contacts should let you know when a group will be necessary for a mission.
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Oh, but they DID let me know. AFTER I accepted the mission. That's NOT a bug.
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Statesman on forced grouping/solo'ing
Statesman on solo'ing, solo'ing missoins, and the difference of various AT's ability to solo.
Statesman on making the game harder, and why.
Statesman saying he still wants people to be able to solo, and other stuff.
Statesman explains again about making the game harder.
~~~~
Darn that pesky research proving your conspiracy theory wrong!
Forced grouping would mean I was back in EQ, where it could take 1min to 3hrs to find a group. Having to find a group, or 1 or 2 other people out of every couple missions to help take down a boss isn't forced grouping. Besides, go to your local contact, stock up on lucks and you shouldn't have much problem anyway.
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You know its funny in all those quotes, States keeps mentioning the desirablity of Street hunting for would be soloer's
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a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.
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Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets
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Yet for some reason Positron had something very diffrent to say on the subject
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1796811
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Our goal is for you never to run out of missions or things to do... "street hunting" should be an absolute last resort...
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Kinda makes you wonder if they ever talk to one and other huh? I mean Posi says bug instance of 5th, followed by States saying not too. States says soloing should be viable for streethunting, and Posi says streethunting should be an absolute last resort.
Have fun 
!
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A bug is something that happened occasionally. Not 2 times in a row.
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Wrong. Just because a bug is reproducible does not make it not a bug. A bug can happen a 1000 times in a row and still be a bug. It is a known fact that missions that: do not say they are timed, or do not say you will need additional people in the mission text, are BUGS and should be reported.
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It has been stated previously by the DEV's that contacts should let you know when a group will be necessary for a mission.
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Oh, but they DID let me know. AFTER I accepted the mission. That's NOT a bug.
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Not to mention that the first AV you come in contact with in a story arc (Dr. V) has no mention of his precense in the mission he is placed in. The mission is about ending the Vahz threat, but there is no suggestion in the mission text that you will be facing an Arch Villian or that you should bring some help. And this one has been around since when? Launch?
Have fun !
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You know its funny in all those quotes, States keeps mentioning the desirablity of Street hunting for would be soloer's
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a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.
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Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets.
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Wayto selectively quote there.
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And worse comes to worse - a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.
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"Worse comes to worse" ... not to desirable souding to me.
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Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets. Many missions are solo-able - but not EVERY mission.
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Again, nothing about the desirablity of street hunting, one way or the other. Just an laternative to doing missions that you can't solo.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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It has been stated previously by the DEV's that contacts should let you know when a group will be necessary for a mission.
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Oh, but they DID let me know. AFTER I accepted the mission. That's NOT a bug.
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And I am sure it's not possable that you could have just missed the warning? ... I know I have, but sure enough, the screen shot I took clearly showed that it was timed.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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well what i would like to see imo is the ability to delete missions from your mission log or whatever its called... i realize there is a story here... but personally I could care less about it... i just like to beat up things, complete missions and get badges... and i would rather not have to read things from contacts...
this is just the way i like to play... so if there will be missions that cannot be solo'd... then I would like the ability to drop them so I can move on and not get my mission log clogged up with non-solo missions...
yes perhaps i should go find another game then... but for now i like this one and since i can finish all my missions its not an issue... but if that is not the future of the game... then just the ability to drop missions i cant solo would be nice
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Not to mention that the first AV you come in contact with in a story arc (Dr. V) has no mention of his precense in the mission he is placed in. The mission is about ending the Vahz threat, but there is no suggestion in the mission text that you will be facing an Arch Villian or that you should bring some help. And this one has been around since when? Launch?
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Last time I did that mission, Dr. V. was not responsible for the plague, not necessary to the completion of the mission, and essentially a surprise red herring. Now he's still a bad guy, and if you can beat him with your friends, more power to you, but I don't see a flaw in that mission spec. If he was integral to the completion, I'd agree, but as it is, the mission is fine (unless it's changed, darn that dynamic environment!)
only read your reply, not the others, so if this has been mentioned, forgive me.
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Someone says "You should always be able to solo your missions," and Statesman replies "No, bosses usually require help." From this, you don't get "Bosses aren't supposed to be soloable"?
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No, I don't get that. The problem with your question is that you misquoted Statesman. His actual words were: "Bosses, Elite Bosses and AV's usually require help." If he had JUST said 'Bosses usually require help' I could see where you had a point, as that statement would have to be 'bosses sometimes require help' to be closer to accurate. However, by listing Bosses, Elite Bosses, and AV's, the term 'usually' applies correctly.
The trick here is in actually reading what was stated and understanding why those words were chosen.
-Kendal
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Now that Bosses usually require help does anyone see a trend in the game towards forced grouping?
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God I hope so. Then we can put the matter to rest and stop [censored] about it on the forums, eh?
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Not to mention that the first AV you come in contact with in a story arc (Dr. V) has no mention of his precense in the mission he is placed in.
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This is because Dr. V is not a mission-crtitical objective. You can ignore him and get a Mission Complete (the story supports this in a rather cool way, I think).
-Kendal
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Statesman on forced grouping/solo'ing
Statesman on solo'ing, solo'ing missoins, and the difference of various AT's ability to solo.
Statesman on making the game harder, and why.
Statesman saying he still wants people to be able to solo, and other stuff.
Statesman explains again about making the game harder.
~~~~
Darn that pesky research proving your conspiracy theory wrong!
Forced grouping would mean I was back in EQ, where it could take 1min to 3hrs to find a group. Having to find a group, or 1 or 2 other people out of every couple missions to help take down a boss isn't forced grouping. Besides, go to your local contact, stock up on lucks and you shouldn't have much problem anyway.
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You know its funny in all those quotes, States keeps mentioning the desirablity of Street hunting for would be soloer's
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a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.
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Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets
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Yet for some reason Positron had something very diffrent to say on the subject
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1796811
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Our goal is for you never to run out of missions or things to do... "street hunting" should be an absolute last resort...
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Kinda makes you wonder if they ever talk to one and other huh? I mean Posi says bug instance of 5th, followed by States saying not too. States says soloing should be viable for streethunting, and Posi says streethunting should be an absolute last resort.
Have fun !
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For those of you wondering why the Developers don't post more often in the forums.
^^ There you have it.
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Not to mention that the first AV you come in contact with in a story arc (Dr. V) has no mention of his precense in the mission he is placed in. The mission is about ending the Vahz threat, but there is no suggestion in the mission text that you will be facing an Arch Villian or that you should bring some help. And this one has been around since when? Launch?
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Last time I did that mission, Dr. V. was not responsible for the plague, not necessary to the completion of the mission, and essentially a surprise red herring. Now he's still a bad guy, and if you can beat him with your friends, more power to you, but I don't see a flaw in that mission spec. If he was integral to the completion, I'd agree, but as it is, the mission is fine (unless it's changed, darn that dynamic environment!)
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Whether or not defeating Dr. V is the objective of the mission is irrelevant. The point is you suddenly find yourself faced with your first chance to fight an AV, and you are not forewarned about it. I am curious how many people made the assumption that since they were able to solo all of their mission to that point, made the mistake of trying to solo Dr. V?
And who in their right mind would pass up their first chance to face their first AV? Sorry not buying your response.
Have fun !
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All depends on the class...your build...and how you play it.
I've taken out two bosses at once with a blaster before...solo
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I agree. With my Defender, I was able to solo defeat a Nemesis boss and a 5th Column Vampire boss, together and both were red con. But I got defeated by a single orange con Carnival of Shadows Boss. Different factors come into play as well and sometimes it is luck.
Champion Heroes: The Wu Jen Adept(50)/Major Madcap(50)/Panther Ice(43)/Nightshadow Dragon(42)
Champion Villains: Freezing Night(49)/Tactical Widow(44)/Umbral Servant(38)/Mister Mechanical(33)
I don't quite follow you here, Icarus. Are you saying it's because their words can be twisted and taken out of context, or because a flaw in what they're attempting to design the game as is pointed out?
If street hunting is a 'last resort' and they envision people doing their missions for advancement, but all people are supposed to be able to solo though for some the only soloing they can do is street grinding blues...
The conclusion I draw from that is 'Yes, you can solo by grinding in the streets. Please ignore the majority of your missions unless you wish to team.'
Being that the missions are supposed to be the thrust of the game, that kind of makes it a bit less solo friendly, doesn't it?
Wile E. Canuck.
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And I am sure it's not possable that you could have just missed the warning?
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I can't speak for you being sure, but I CAN speak for ME being sure. Yes, I read the mission description, as I ALWAYS do, and NO, it wasn't in there until AFTER I accepted the mission.
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*** You are ignoring this user ***
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Sorry what was that you said Mr. Enlightment?
Have fun !
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"For the most part, everyone will be able to solo in some situations. Some builds and ATs more than others. But there are some mobs that can be a challenge - bosses, elite bosses, AV's and monsters - where you'll probably want help. Or not."
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EXACTLY. Bosses weren't meant to be solo-able UNLESS a particular player used Inspirations & strategy. Hence, the Help text & tutorial indicate that a player "probably" should get other friends to take out a boss.
Some builds are clearly better than others at taking out bosses.
None of those example villians are Arch-Villians. They are Elite Bosses. Or the Villians that wil be PC's in CoV.
Arch-Vilians are in the Mold of Magneto, Kang the Conquerer and Dr. Doom. Villians that require an entire Team to defeat. Spidey has attempted to solo Doom for example, he lost.