A Business Focused View of NCSoft's Actions
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-09-16 13:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Current rate yes...but he was talking about 2Q's numbers and the average exchange rates between april and june was 1149.05319 bid price or 1156.13407 ask price.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
No. Current exchange rate is about 1100 Won to the Dollar.
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So depending on which you like to use, i prefer ask price...seems actual tends to be closer to that most of the time...2Q 146,808 KrW(mn) becomes $127,764,320.47 (bid) or $126,981,813 (ask) USD
Code:
2012
Quarterly Average Monthly Average
Bid Ask Bid Ask
April 1132.68833 1137.17867
May 1153.14419 1160.29968
June 1149.05319 1156.13407 1161.19067 1170.78500
I don't think it is very independant, it's someone's personal blog with a company name tacked on to it. I'd like to see his evidence for claims that GW2 sales have been harmed because of this.
Interesting read though.
Frankie says it best.
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Having talked with someone that has lived in S. Korea for many years, there's two things these pages don't go into. One, the Korean business sector is notorious for making bad decisions. And two, once a public statement has been made, they (Koreans in general) almost never back down from it. Even if the business decision was a devastating one, they'll stick to their guns and tough it out. It's all about saving face.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
One must know the enemy before trying to figure out his actions.
Read the part about how South Koreans do business. And here is some more information. You'll see that they don't think like 'us'. |
From the OP article:
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| The overall behavior by NCSoft appears to be reactionary, potentially indicating either an internally localized lack of experience or a wider lack of direction when it comes to ongoing interaction in the Western market. |
Of course, like everyone else, I can only speculate at this point. But the whole thingthe abruptness of the closing, the unwillingness to sell the IP and the sole ephemeral corporatespeak statement we have gotten about "refocusing"smacks to me of, "We done f**ked up royally and we're trying to get our house in order, but damned if we're gonna let anyone know about it."
I'm probably wrong, but I like to daydream.
"But we are like children, thinking our toys will make us happy and the whole world is our nursery. Something must drive us out of that nursery and into the lives of others, and that something is suffering." �C.S. Lewis
From the IR Reports/Conference Call transcript Archives that I read, (basically all of them) - they actually included special notes for "one-off" expenses {specifically severance packages} - but they don't say for which games... of course!
They also don't specify what "NC Interactive" is = not precisely, it should be "NCsoft West" (in at least a few of them - over certain time-periods). But, they really don't seem all that interested in any such details (and FFS it should read "one-of" expenses).
They seemed to re-use PDF's of previous Reports as broiler plates & more than once it looked like they left some stuff from older ones by mistake - (Or because they weren't planning on leaving the PowerPoint 'slide' up on the wall too long & nobody was gonna actually read any hard-copies) - And that, in the meetings they would focus on TELLING the story *as they wanted it to be*, rather than what it was = "shaping a narrative" designed to influence the investors according to their own plans, not the pesky facts and/or history of what actually occurred.
Example: when they were doing comparisons of profits from quarter to quarter from box revenues and whatnot - they still had Tabula Rasa box prices listed in a place it had no business being - the game was already shut-down prior to the relevant quarters at hand.
BUT, they probably were all about leaving an "accidental" (pseudo-subliminal) *remember Tabula Rasa failed & Garriott is still suing us (yes again)* when they were fighting over future plans!
And all through this stuff you could easily read the undercurrent/message of "MMORPG's for 'hardcore gamers' take 5 years and Tens of Millions of $$ to make", and "all the cool kids are switching to tablets/phones, mobile & "online" platforms"... and they did it while harshly criticizing the development time and cost of production on "Console" & "PC" games. They are all really playing-up the "Casual", "Social", and "Browser" games... As the place to be = low risk/quicker turn around time = So, if/when a game flops it'll flop quick & they can try again! These "suits" are treating these Games more like *scratch-off lottery tickets* = rather than *actual business ventures* = its so frustrating they don't care at all about the games or the players!!
Now someone said around here just yesterday in response to something I posted that PC's hardware is always changing & that phones/tablets were more standardized - I'm calling B.S. on that = there are basically 2 lines or types of CPUs & Video Cards and corresponding drivers to work with... There are some issues but I see them as less complicated than - Phone hardware (& their OS'es) change every few months, same thing with the Mobile Platforms, and Browsers are updated/fixed (and are known to break random seemingly unrelated stuff) all the freaking time!
The main CPU Architectures and instruction sets & related OS/Software/Driver "life-cycles" are surely longer & I know Firefox just update to version 15 (it been jumping thru revisions like crazy the last couple years - I think they must be talking about the PC in the Cyber-cafes where the owners buy standard PC's and let them sit till they are paid for = people buy new phone every few months & iPads/tablets are almost as bad, & the major issue is the Phone/Mobile/Browser Games = SUCK!
If you're not at home - sure you can play a cheapo Tetris, Zelda, or Diablo clone, or some similar POS game. And, If that's the garbage they want to invest in fine = Then Sell the CoH IP to people who'll cherish and continue to develop & play it - They Are In No WAY Competing For Any Of *MY* Disposable Income!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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+1 for truth. Even though it is tempting at the moment.|
Originally Posted by Atlantea
Okay. NO.
STOP RIGHT THE F*** THERE. I don't care WHAT NCSoft did, they don't rate even the HINT of violence, even jokingly! That's NOT HELPING. (if you edit your post to remove that offensiveness then I will edit mine accordingly. I suggest you do so ASAP.) |
Besides, how do we know we wouldnt get an even BIGGER (explitive deleted) as thier replacement?
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Maybe he means GW2 sales (among CoX customers who haven't bought it yet) has been harmed by the closure.|
Originally Posted by Arson_NA
I don't think it is very independant, it's someone's personal blog with a company name tacked on to it. I'd like to see his evidence for claims that GW2 sales have been harmed because of this.
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GW2 topped European sales charts a week after the closure was announced and it exceeded 2 million copies sold after they resumed digital sales last week.
Re-reading that blog, i'm getting an odd feeling like i saw his argumentative points before in the CoX forums from the last couple weeks, especially his use of the phrase "scorched earth" in particular.
If i didn't know better, i would think he posted here or is getting most of his information from these forums.
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That's pretty much the exact feeling I had when I read it, that it was just culled from various forum posts and edited for readability.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Re-reading that blog, i'm getting an odd feeling like i saw his argumentative points before in the CoX forums since the last couple weeks, especially his use of the phrase "scorched earth" in particular.
If i didn't know better, i would think he posted here or is getting most of his information from these forums. |
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Going to stop here, because i have never heard of "one of" expenses... "one time", "one off" expenses, yes, but not "One of" expenses... |
Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant
The IR Reports/Conference Call transcript Archives, that I saw included special notes for "one-off" expenses specifically severance packages - but they don't say for which games.
They Also don't specify what "NC Interactive" is = not precisely, it should be "NCsoft West" (in at least a few of these things). But, they don't seem all that interested in any such details (and FFS it should read "one-of" expenses). |
The NCsoft West thing... it hasn't appeared in *any* of their financial reports. NCsoft West was more than anything else, a rebranding of the UK (Ncsoft Europe) and American offices (NC Interactive), even though *financially* they are still separate entities.
People who upgrade their phone before their previous contract is up have either too much money burning a hole in their pockets or have their priorities seriously messed up.
But it is true the mobile gaming, on phones, is on the upswing. Especially in areas where this is a lot of mass transit with long commute times. NCSoft own presentations show 17% growth in that market, however they also still show a 19% growth in online gaming.
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Yep, if this is how the MMO industry is going to operate I don't see myself giving any MMO my interest. And certainly none from NCSoft ever. This isn't an anger driven refusal but a lack of trust with them specifically.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
The most damaging part of this debacle may be for MMO players in general. I think we all can accept the fact that MMOs close, but if the way this game was closed is considered standard and acceptable in this industry, we're all screwed, no matter what game we're playing.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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The 'spike' seems to be confirmed by this stock report (the 1Month tab is revealing as is the 1Year):|
Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
This is grand and puts a huge black eye on NcSoft. Both Carbine and Arenanet are probably looking at the "out" clauses in their contracts "with" their products because they can certainly claim intentional corporate sabotage. Another burden of proof, that they knew they were going to do this, the NcSoft Game cards stopped promoting CoH and showcased only two games; Lineage 2 and Aion. NcSoft planned this and waited for the big Guild Wars 2 launch to carry it out so the NA market would look good for investors, but it was only a momentary spike.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/036570:KS
Please buff Ice Control.
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If you're on the negotiating team for the IP, then yes.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So... you're saying we should exchange business cards with the execs at NCSoft?
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But look at the other info in light of the current situation.
Their business etiquette is to get to know you first. To not expect a deal the first time. To have prolonged negotiations. Maybe that explains this 2+ weeks of silence. We haven't heard any updates because business negotiations take longer in the Korean business world than the American world many of us work in.
Also, their first proposal is likely to be exorbitantly high. That gives them negotiating room. They're not just going to offer a 'fair' price and be done with it. Maybe that explains why the other IPs they shutdown weren't sold. The people negotiating with them got frightened away by the first offer.
Please buff Ice Control.
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Ouch.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
The 'spike' seems to be confirmed by this stock report (the 1Month tab is revealing as is the 1Year):
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/036570:KS |
I'm no finance expert, but that does not look healthy. At all. If that's the best 'boost' they get from launching Guild Wars 2 it's no wonder they're taking drastic action.
God help Carbine. Wildstar's going to be dead before it launches if that trend continues.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
But if you think our sudden closure or our vow to never spend money on another NCSoft game would actually harm them in someway, is wishful thinking at best, delusional at worst.
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I also respectfully disagree. How many people do you know? How many play games? Now...how many would listen to what you had to say, either positively or negatively about any of those games? If you recommended to any of them to avoid a title or company, would they? And what about their friends?
Word of mouth. Standing together. THESE are what defeat corporate greed machines. But of course....video gamers aren't known for their attention spans or loyalty. Of course. See, NCSoft is -counting- on that. We as a community and a market will look at the new shiny and go "OOooOoOOO. Must have.", and forget all about the fact that in a few years...they'll pull the plug on that one too. Because they'll have another one. As long as you, the consumer, are willing to pay...they'll win. Bottom line.
Don't pay. Get your friends to not pay. Get -their- friends to not pay. Suddenly...you've got their attention.
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I think that may be an American English/Uk English thing = I'm talking about "one-time" expenses (I there seems to be a similar difference in the of use of the term at - merriam-webster.com at it's an American usage vs. UK usage) - Hmm, okay. |
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Going to stop here, because i have never heard of "one of" expenses... "one time", "one off" expenses, yes, but not "One of" expenses...
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| The NCsoft West thing... it hasn't appeared in *any* of their financial reports. NCsoft West was more than anything else, a rebranding of the UK (Ncsoft Europe) and American offices (NC Interactive), even though *financially* they are still separate entities. |
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
People who upgrade their phone before their previous contract is up have either too much money burning a hole in their pockets or have their priorities seriously messed up.
But it is true the mobile gaming, on phones, is on the upswing. Especially in areas where this is a lot of mass transit with long commute times. NCSoft own presentations show 17% growth in that market, however they also still show a 19% growth in online gaming. |
And what about "Console games" with "Online" components/content?
And more importantly people (even myself) are quoting these reports - But they have a big disclaimer on on page 2:
"Some of the information and data in the material have been prepared based on assumptions. There can be no assurance that the assumptions used by NCsoft are correct and even if they are, that the effect of such assumptions on NCsofts business and results of operations will be as projected.
Therefore, NCsoft will not be responsible for individual investment decisions based solely on this material.
The financial results for 2Q 2012 have been prepared on an un-audited basis, and may be subject to change during independent auditing process."
I'm sorry = But, This is a SERIOUS PROBLEM!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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This is the thing... they *do* show which divisions are losing money vs those that are making money. That fact that you as an outsider might not be 100% sure of which part is which is neither here nor there.|
Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant
Isn't that a REAL Problem = when these presentation are meant to show financial data and illustrate the relationships as to which divisions are losing money vs. which ones are making money?
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"Merging" two companies to operate under the same brand (which is what they did) does not mean that you have change what it gets listed as in your financial reports.
IF however it was a full on merge, so that there was financial links and ties between the 2, so if one went down the other half went down... then yes you would.
However, that is not the case here. The losses of NC Interactive have no bearing on the financial state of play with NC Europe.
Collectively they can be called NC West and if you do that, then the whole "Western Side" looks shakey (especially when you consider the US side lost 3 times as much money as the EU side).
*edit* I would also like to state that for accounts to be fully signed off can take *months*, if not years... the Department of Works and Pensions in the UK hasnt had their accounts signed off for 24 years (for various reasons apparently)
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I did. The 5 'support' were NCSoft employees doing Community Services and the one or two odd in-house Production staff.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
And with the 15 developers/5 support staff (or how ever many it was), dont forget to add on the Community Team, who were NCsoft employed, and not Cryptic employed.
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Of course, they also had help from remote NCSoft services: Server maintenance, web hosting, QA, GM...
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As I mentioned before, NCSoft isn't really going to be hurting from any CoH/V fan backlash. Western market share is insignificant enough that the people in charge don't have to care. They are not gamers. They don't play CoH/V themselves.
Paragon Studios should have bought itself and CoH/V out from NCSoft.
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I'm just going to say that I judge community calls to action differently than I judge something that appears to present itself as professional work, and the article in question appears to present itself, by language and structure, as a professional piece of work. With all due respect to the author, as such its what I would describe as extremely sketchy.
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Well, that's only if NCSoft is receptive to the idea of selling City of Heroes and its IP. If NCSoft absolutely refuses to consider selling the game to anyone--be it Paragon Studios, other investors, or some other option--that's their prerogative.|
Originally Posted by CatMan
Paragon Studios should have bought itself and CoH/V out from NCSoft.
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I've heard snatches of talk that Auto Assault's developer and fans tried to do this when NCSoft killed them off, but apparently it amounted to nothing. I'm hoping that whatever talks between Paragon's former employees, investors, and NCSoft goes better this time.
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Sorry, should have made my post more past tense. Now that NCSoft is killing the game they will more than likely hold onto the IP as with all prior IPs they have killed off.
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Originally Posted by LittleDavid
Well, that's only if NCSoft is receptive to the idea of selling City of Heroes and its IP. If NCSoft absolutely refuses to consider selling the game to anyone--be it Paragon Studios, other investors, or some other option--that's their prerogative.
I've heard snatches of talk that Auto Assault's developer and fans tried to do this when NCSoft killed them off, but apparently it amounted to nothing. I'm hoping that whatever talks between Paragon's former employees, investors, and NCSoft goes better this time. |
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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Those are called one-off expenses in the US. I've never ever seen someone refer to them as 'one-of', certainly not in a business/accounting setting! Try going to Google and type in 'accounting one of' (don't press enter or any buttons after typing that in) and, at least for me (I have all customization/tracking disabled), it suggests to complete to 'accounting one off expense', figuring that's most likely what I'm typing.|
Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant
I think that may be an American English/Uk English thing = I'm talking about "one-time" expenses (I there seems to be a similar difference in the of use of the term at - merriam-webster.com at it's an American usage vs. UK usage) - Hmm, okay.
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The use of loads of equals signs in text is also rather unusual
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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This board is getting repetitive with its guesses and go-rounds. |
Originally Posted by CatMan
Sorry, should have made my post more past tense. Now that NCSoft is killing the game they will more than likely hold onto the IP as with all prior IPs they have killed off.
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And Net Devil tried to buy Auto Assault back from NCSoft when they shut it down, but ND (the devs) couldn't get enough money together to do so. So obviously NCSoft can be open to selling off IPs/games, it's just whether or not they ask such ridiculous money that it will never happen, or whether in the case of Net Devil, they just had no realistic investors/backing. NCSoft isn't going to give away anything for nearly free, either.
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Dude, my record is broken, ok? |
Originally Posted by shadow35
This board is getting repetitive with its guesses and go-rounds.
And Net Devil tried to buy Auto Assault back from NCSoft when they shut it down, but ND (the devs) couldn't get enough money together to do so. So obviously NCSoft can be open to selling off IPs/games, it's just whether or not they ask such ridiculous money that it will never happen, or whether in the case of Net Devil, they just had no realistic investors/backing. NCSoft isn't going to give away anything for nearly free, either. |
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
Read the part about how South Koreans do business.
And here is some more information. You'll see that they don't think like 'us'.