Anime and CoX

A terrible attempt indeed, given that I didn't specify any individual nor is there necessarily anything insulting about applying a stick to one's backside (indeed, some folks around here have a math-stick positioned rearward, and are invaluable because of it). Insult was not my intent, though it was a bit cheeky. I was rushed for time and glibness was a necessity. I'll attempt to be more detailed now, and I'll even bring it back around to anime.

The problem as I see it isn't necessarily bad writing. Some might jump to that conclusion given inconsistencies that arise, but even if comic titles were treated as 'separate shows with shared characters/circumstances' rather than a conglomerate of continuity (as the article was suggesting) many of these inconsistencies would change very little if at all. The Hulk could still be the Hulk in his comic and a super-hero in The Avengers title. What would mainly change is the perception of the reader, and if that's what's important to change then it isn't the writing which is bad but rather the reading.

Inconsistencies are bound to arise even within a single long-running series that isn't carefully planned from beginning to end. This is particularly true if multiple writers are involved, but could happen even with a single writer. A number of inconsistencies may naturally be overlooked by many people, but there will nearly always be a group of them that analyzes and dissects it to find things that the average person won't see without it being pointed out. And the more episodic the content, the easier it is to overlook such errors.

And that brings me around to anime continuities as compared to comics (and from this point it'll just be a general statement more towards the topic at hand that just happened to segue from this sub-discussion)...

Anime are often based on manga that had a single author, and some of the best, IMO, are the ones that have a definite beginning and end - particularly if the jokers in charge of translating it to anime don't feel the need to throw in a couple-hundred episodes of pointless, meandering filler. Unlike most - western? American? - superhero comics, they get to tell a complete story (often originally constructed by a single author) generally without much unplanned discontinuity. Indeed, some of the more highly-lauded "western" superhero stories share this self-contained kind of presentation, free of ties to a convoluted morass of current continuity.

This. Thank you. Mainly why I referenced the earlier shows and asked that we take a broader look at anime genres versus shounen (Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, etc all fall under this umbrella.)

I don't doubt or dismiss the ability of Western comic book authors to write quality stories, but from someone looking outside in - it seems big comic book companies can't introduce a popular character and then just stop writing about them once the story is complete. They keep coming back, either in other stories or their own franchised monthly stories.

To me, this has the same writing quality of a shounen show. An unfocused story where enemies, rivals and allies are constantly shifting and there is really never a final outcome. The one thing Western comics seem to do better (generally) is they don't introduce absurd power creeps. Look at Goku, for instance. Even as a teen, I had completely lost interest when characters had the power to chain explode planets and solar systems. *yawn* Thankfully in Japan, shounen shows are what they are - TV for teenage boys. There is a whole 'nother genre for adults, which is largely unseen by non-fans here thanks to over-exposure of shounen style shows on cable networks.

Hence why I mentioned Tiger and Bunny, Book of Bantorra, Darker than Black and the like earlier. Shows that adults can enjoy, have "super powers" and end without needless fluff. Not that it's going to change anyone's mind, but there ya go.


And lastly, as for those clamoring for the devs to "stop pandering to anime fans"... really? Asian, Eastern or otherwise ethnic costume pieces and powerset themes are not "anime." They're Asian. Asian =/= Anime.

You're wrong because he/she says you are wrong. Welcome to the interwebz. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, I don't think this game is overly filled with anime/manga inspiration. There's enough to draw from, if you care to create toons that are anime-inspired. If you don't care for it, you can always do something diffrerent. Isn't freedom of choice great?

I believe the "manga hater" crowd and the "moar manga" lobby are the vocal minority.

This. As well I'd like to point out the origins of the dreaded "school girl uniform" go back to the actual British navy, with boys and girls versions catching on in the late 1800s. The shirt part skims a little too high even on the longer setting but you can still make a non-anime uniform with it with the right accessories.

I have to head off to work so I can't write a detailed response just yet(see me in about eight hours) but I genuinely believe shared continuity in and of itself is bad writing. No matter how "consistent" it is or how "well handled" More later.

Anime=/= options. Nice try, though. Options would be things like...multiple choices for power animations/colors. Having a single item for use in bases to seperate room height -like a floor does-. Or actual stairs that go up a single flight. Additional costume pieces, yes. But not asian/anime flavored. Plenty of other genres out there. Steampunk. Sci-fi. Horror. Heck, even actual clothing that doesn't look like painted on items. They're starting to branch out like that, which is -good-. It's even Very Good. With capitol letters.

Let's come at this in a different perspective. Touting one's cultural heritage is generally viewed as having pride in one's roots. It's also done all the time. African-american culture. Asian culture. Russian culture. Hispanic culture. The list is quite long.
However, as soon as someone wants to tout their White Anglo Saxon Protestant culture, it's immediately labelled as "racism". Why aren't the previously provided examples labeled as "racism" then? It's no different. At least to me, it isn't. But, that's another discussion not for these forums.

The example above was given to provide reference for this statement.
An opinion that differs from the majority view is not trolling, just different. I don't like manga/anime or that whole genre. Doesn't make me evil or a troll, just means I've a different opinion and view of it all. The original question wasn't "Why do you like/support/want to see more of anime in the game?" It was "Why all the hate/dislike?" If anyone's trolling, it's the supporters of it. My two cents. Also, done posting here. As you can see by my post count, I don't normally post here in the forums. Six year veteran, too, so yes. I -love- this game. Greatly. I've nothing but support for it, even if they remove my posts. Even if they add things to the game I don't agree with. At least now, with Freedom, I have the option of not purchasing things I view as a waste of my money. Score all the way around!!

While it would appear that your definition of "options" is the above, except appending "unless I don't like it." While you may dislike a particular STYLE, as Anime is an ART STYLE, NOT a GENRE, that does not preclude it as a valid and viable addition to this game. If you do not like the idea of Anime/Manga-inspired elements, simply avoid them.

(Also, nobody was accusing you of racism...No clue where you got that...)

Fixed that for ya.

Not exactly.

For starters, any anime where characters are strong enough to destroy an entire planet single-handedly won't mix with the CoX universe. So there's a power level limit somewhere in there.

And not to mention any adult-themed sub-categories, since this game is T-rated (though that obviously applies equally to Western art styles as well).



But hey, at least we get Hammerspace. *thumbs up*

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

This isn't true, but I have never seen anyone truly express pride in "white anglo-saxon protestant" culture. It's usually just straight up white supremacy. What exactly do white anglo-saxons do to celebrate their culture? Have biscuits and bangers for breakfast? Get rowdy at football (not the American kind) games? Watch Monty Python? Spell words according to Her Majesty's English? (colour, armour, etc). Head down to the pub for a few pints? Stop and think "What is celebrated here?"

But what do I know? My heritage is Irish Catholic.

What the pancake are you talking about?

Oi! Mind your asterisks.

Are you forgetting someone? Someone that you know... eats entire dimensions?

Hell, it's not like 'planet destroyer' is even unique to anime or anything.


But the power creep you're talking about happens just as much in western super hero comics... it's just that those authors will just make the character magically forget the abilities 5 minutes later most of the time (I don't follow any enough to point out any examples where they just keep getting more powerful, but I'm sure they exist). Anime/manga writers (that do that... most don't) just choose to throw a bigger rock at them the next time.

Of course, barring the Dragonball universe, I don't think I could name another one where characters have that level of power (with or without help).

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

I think he meant giving that sort of power to characters.

Player Characters, specifically.

Er, ack. That's what I meant to say to begin with. Thanks for fixing that.

How's that different than if you were making a super hero game, though? Super Heroes have a massive range of abilities, from 'stupid teenager that largely doesn't feel anything' (Kick ***) to... well, god-like beings.

You'll have quite a huge challenge on your hands if you're making an MMO where the power progression of Kick *** can be followed for one player, while, say, Iron Man for another. They don't even overlap in power levels. So obviously you'll have to sort of create a standard progression arc for players to follow (if you're damn creative and can come up with an alternative working system, you might actually be able to create a WoW-killer... if you don't screw everything else up).

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

Well, yes. I don't disagree with you. I meant to speak about giving it for any reason, regardless of source, but I can see why that wasn't implied. My bad.

That reply wasn't directed at you two, more so just framing it in that context if he was specifically referring to just players as the two of you said. It just seems like it'd be a pointless/unnecessary comment in that context, since it applies equally to whether you're talking about 'anime' or 'western super heroes'. Same with the T comment.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

I was, in fact, referring specifically to player characters. As you point out, it's pretty much a staple in comics across the world to have THE BIG BAD capable of doing terrible things that no protagonist, alone or in groups, could manage... at least at first. In Western comics, this will usually be solved by a team-up of unlikely heroes and/or villains, a deus ex machina like Marvel's "Cosmic Powers" which flit from character to character, some Hail Mary I-hope-we-never-have-to-do-that-again play that just barely manages to work, or some combination thereof. It just seems that only in Japanese comic literature does a single protagonist grow to (and especially maintain) equal footing with the big bad, before raising his friends to a similar level and then having, as you said, "a bigger rock thrown at them the next time."

And strangely, despite my former fondness for Dragonball Z, I was actually thinking about Guren Lagann... the climax of which involves the main character creating a super robot so large that the collateral damage of the final fight was literally galactic in nature. (He actually used an entire galaxy as a barrier against an attack.) Though to be fair, the latter 2/3 of Guren Lagann had me going, "WHAT IS THIS @#$%" at least once an episode.



That is, of course, all part of a particular sub-genre of anime, which I generally hear referred to online as "Fighting Forever" anime. Obviously, you and I and most people who actually watch anime know that not all anime features this, and that even within the "Fighting Forever" sub-genre, there are plenty of series which handle power creep at a much more reasonable pace than planet crushers like DBZ et al.

(Side note: I am hating Bleach so much right now.)

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

See, from my perspective continuity is just continuity. Differentiating it as "shared" when there's more than one title involved makes as little sense to me as doing so if there just happens to be more than one character involved.