Anime and CoX

Actually, people have been saying that through all eight pages. People are only taking notice because now a Redname said it.

Those are pretty much all very similar styles of shows (hell, Naruto and Bleach are both by the same publisher), which are a very specific sub grouping of animes (of the ones I've watched any of- Akira, Bleach, and Naruto, I found all to be extremely boring and tedious). Bleach, Dragonball, and Naruto are specifically targeted towards young boys, so that's why they largely revolve around the male characters and yada yada yada.


It would sort of be like making judgements about american animated shows after having seen only Family Guy, American Dad, and the Cleveland Show. While all three (more so the left side than right...) are quite popular, they certainly aren't representative of animated american shows in general (throw in the other Fox cartoons that are generally shown along side those if you want). Same if you'd just watched the Adult Swim (remember back when they made new episodes of The Venture Brothers? ) shows. Or any other block.

Bit of a broken record player here, but it's simply a medium. And hell, even Japan's live action stuff can be strange as hell.

That's certainly not an example of a Blessed Idiot! Lelouch even said that gaining his power didn't cause him to walk down the path he did, it merely let him start much sooner (then again, Lelouch seems to also have the same power Nemesis has for plots within plots).

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

Lady Gaga? Isn't she one of the Egyptian Gods?

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

No, I quoted something to give you flack for criticizing anime for something Western ( and, really, ANY animation/comic style ) is guilty of. It's not a matter of whether you acknowledge it or not, but the fact that you seem to feel it's acceptable in formats other than anime... As I've said before in this thread, there's Western stuff out there that makes the most twisted Anima/Manga stuff look tame.

I think this is exactly the problem

More over, "anime" isn't really a genre, it's an art style. There are many genres of anime...

Who said it was a trope? Or that trope in particular.

Mundane =/= Idiot.

All I was saying is anime characters might have powers considered 'not cool' when you simply describe them...like the ability to control paper. But Lelouch's ability to give irresistible commands sounds somewhat tame...until he tells you not to die and you become practically immortal...

No, no! The person you were replying to was saying the main character is always just a blessed idiot, and I was pointing out how the example you gave is massively not a case of one.

Some do come up with the craziest abilities (maybe anime could come up with a non-lame version of aqua man!).

Or to kill all the Japanese...

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

Rebuttal

Heart: The only super power lamer than Friendship.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Originally Posted by ShadowNate ;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

Friendship can take on the Universe, though.

I said it's an anime trope THAT DOESN'T FIT IN WITH THE GAME UNIVERSE. I made no comments one way or the other about it being "acceptable," just that it can't jive with CoX. Western equivalents don't fit in either, but are far less prevalent.

This was also covered in follow-up posts, which you apparently didn't read either. Popular Western comics don't allow for heroes with the power to destroy planets, and those that do either are able to do so via some extremely temporary extenuating circumstances (e.g., Marvel's "Cosmic Force") or are rapidly de-powered or rebooted in the next story line. Villains with that potential in Western comics (such as Galactus) are rare and used sparingly.

You can't make a player character capable of destroying the planet with such little effort, as in Dragonball Z or Guren Lagann. It breaks the game. Ergo, it does not fit in the City of Heroes' universe.

The developers could (and have--someone else already mentioned Rularuu, the devourer of dimensions) create a large-scale threat capable of doing so, but players will never be able to individually match that level of power*. And like all good Western comics, those characters will be used sparingly.

*Outside of "Unlimited Radial Freem!" in Mender Ramiel's first mission.




Oh, and for the record? I'm a huge fan of crazy overpowered dudes and "Fighting Forever" anime. My favorites are Yu Yu Hakusho (where the main character goes from "slightly tough human" to "equivalent of a Demon God" in about three years in-series time) and One Piece. DBZ holds a special place in my heart, but I do recognize that it's pretty trashy now... though I'm still a big fan of Team Four Star's DBZ Abridged.

I didn't like Guren Lagann, but that's because the story was just freaking stupid and the characters were unlikable jerk bags (especially after killing off Kamina). Then again, I think everything Gainax makes is garbage.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Premonitions speaks the truth. It's absolutely possible to have a non-lame rendition Aqua Man.

... It's just impossible to have a non-lame version of Aqua Man that takes itself seriously.

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I think those are technically the same thing.

Or at the very least, Friendship would be a subset of Heart, making Heart marginally better overall.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Bet you someone will find a way to do it, mechanically. :P

I don't like what you say, good sir, but will defend to the death your right to say it.

Bam.

Seen it. Took it into account. Still stand by what I said.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

The person I was replying to said a whole bunch of TV tropes names which was the part of his post that I was *not* replying to (I snipped that part).

I specifically replied to the point of his post saying japanese have a particular style which is what differs them wholly from american brand entertainment.



...guy can throw the whole ocean at you.

I know, I know. That's why I did make sure to say it was my opinion, not a statement of fact.

I didn't go along very well with the general consensus of my university's anime club. Every time I attended a meeting, I felt like I was getting something completely different out of the shows than they were; I didn't enjoy most of the shows that were picked, and the ones I did enjoy were considered mediocre at best by the rest of the group. Plus, I was always laughing at different jokes than the rest of them. And I hate to say it, but the majority of that group fit with the general anime hater's view of an anime fan: overweight, openly perverted and in dire need of bathing.

So I found some new friends and some new cartoons of my own and we watched those. Tenchi Muyo, Dual: Parallel Trouble Adventure and El Hazard were the breakout hits among my friends. One guy was a huge fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion, which the rest of us got sick of pretty quickly... though I have to admit the robots were some of the best mecha designs of the time. (The same guy then went on to watch Cowboy Bebop without us... I ended up not seeing it until it got put on Adult Swim.) Ranma ½ was pretty well received for the first season and change, but I think all of us were done with it by the end of the second season. Slayers and Slayers Next (Try wasn't out at the time) also went over very well--I remember spending the better part of my semester's spending money on picking those up on VHS.

We even watched some DBZ... but we had to watch it in my room, cuz the dude whose room we usually watched anime in hated that show... (actually, we just talked the other day, and he still thinks it's one of the worst things ever to come out of Japan.)

...


So, er, I guess my point in all this is that it's okay to like some anime and not others, because if you look you'll be able to find others who share your tastes, even if they're not the most popular...?

I should really stop posting at 4:00 AM.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Jinbe is freaking awesome. (That whole show is, actually.)

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Heck, as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that "anime" means is "an animated show originating from Japan."

Which is, of course, the most basic, literal definition you can boil it down to.

It doesn't pay to sweat the small stuff, though -- I won't argue if someone says that Avatar: The Last Airbender is anime, even if it's largely Korean by design and aired first in the Western world. Anyone who says that wouldn't actually get the difference anyway.

But I digress: there are things in Japanese storytelling that are more or less prevalent than Western equivalents, all boiling down to the differences in cultural mores and preferences.

(Below this is somewhat pointless exposition, not directed at Leo or anyone in particular)

The argument I've been having about "planet crusher" heroes in fighting anime, for one, is that it's a genre that's generally more engaging to Eastern audiences than Western ones. In a Western comic/cartoon, a hero is more likely to defeat an stronger villain by outsmarting or tricking them; in anime, a hero will usually train or focus their skills to match (and surpass) the villain's strength. Japan has fewer qualms about violent content in their cartoons as well, allowing for blood and what-not to be shown after attacks, whereas that's banned almost universally in shows made in the US.

But there are other differences besides the way fights are handled, obviously. Romance is more accepted in anime than in Western cartoons, leading to shows like Tenchi Muyo where all the women want to get with one dude for some inexplicable reason (often called a "harem" anime, despite the fact that the main character usually doesn't want the attention or more than one/two of the women, if even that). The occasional topless woman will generally be thrown in on shows directed at teens, as they're a little more lax with nudity restrictions (and the culture has a history of public bathing, which is why pretty much every harem anime has a hot springs episode).

There are actually a lot of Japanese comics and shows aimed at female viewers as well, focusing on a female character's daily life, dealing with friends and school and crushes/relationships, without anything really strange or supernatural (*cough* Sailor Moon *cough*) interfering with things.

And of course, there's the adult-themed shows--which the majority of Japan finds really gross, I might add--like the tentacle stuff and demons and what-not. But there's a market for it, so they produce it. And while there are plenty of X-rated comics available in the Western world, but not much of it has made the leap to animation (outside of some borderline content produced by Ralph Bakshi, I can't really think of a single legitimate Western cartoon that would actually be considered pornographic).

There is one thing that a lot of people in Western civilizations don't realize, though. Japan doesn't glorify their animation; just like everywhere else, cartoons are generally considered "kid stuff." They realize that there are adults who watch and enjoy the animated shows, but it's considered to be weird. Think about that next time you watch Family Guy or South Park.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Have you tried either Gunbuster, which starts as a sports parody and space drama omage and ends awesome or the faux documentary/history of Gainax, Otaku no Video which is chalk full of homages if you are familiar with the same 70s movies and TV programs that influenced the founders of Gainax (we are about the same age and I am a big fan of Japanese monster and science fiction films as well as Gerry Anderson series). For instance the date September 13, 1999 figures prominently at one point.

I also found most of Nadia of the Mysterious Sea (The Secret of Blue Water) to be enjoyable however there was a section where production quality went out the window due to a subcontractor mishap, or so the story goes. It had a fun quality that reminded me of The Mysterious Cities of Gold.

Gainax's very first movie, Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honneamise, is very visually striking and quite serious drama.

If the only Gainax you've been exposed to is Evangelion ad inifinitum or over the top cheese like Gurren Lagann or high concept metaphor like FLCL, check out their earlier stuff.

I didn't actually realize that was them, though it's been at least 10 years since I last saw it. Yeah, that was pretty good. It got... pretty weird, towards the end (which I guess should have been a big clue), but it was a one-shot and it was well done.

I think my issue with Gainax is that they don't know how to tell a story all the way through. They start with a solid premise (I really did like the first 2-3 episodes of Guren Lagann, but was already pretty bored of it even before they killed off the only good character), but after the scene is set, the train never goes anywhere except Angsty Town. It happened in NGE, it happened in FLCL (which admittedly was supposed to be an allegory for teen angst) and it happened in GL.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Different strokes for different folks. I like a lot of Gainax's stuff, but many of my peers don't. I also watch a lot of slice-of-life and comedy stuff whereas friends seem to prefer action over anything else. We do still have a lot of common ground on ones we've watched and liked.

Well, this is interesting, because there might be people that would disagree with you on this point. Wonderful Days is a Korean "anime", very much in the anime style, but, well, not Japanese. Oseam is the same way.

According to Wikipedia this kind of animation is called Korean Animation. That being said, though, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't make that distinction.

At the same time, Manga could be argued to not be Japanese (exclusively at least) anymore either, given how much western art there is in a distinctively "manga-esque" style.

I guess what it comes down to is that anime style is whatever you want it to be. There will be people who argue that Dragonball or Pokemon aren't Anime. I have no clue what the right answer is, and honestly, I don't think it's important. What's important is to keep an open mind toward the things that media has to offer, whatever form that media may take.

~Freitag

You aren't aware of BTBATB Aquaman!? OUTRAGEOUS!!